Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Why is it so difficult to find an accompanist?
Forums > ABRSM > General Music Forum
Pages: 1, 2
Claudia's Mum
I was just wondering why it is so difficult to find an accompanist. I mean someone who can accompany pieces at the higher grades or for festivals or concerts with competence.

Is it because pianists don't like to accompany and prefer to play solo or because they are busy enough with other types of work or because there are not enough pianists who play to a high enough standard? Or perhaps they do exist but don't advertise themselves so that one can't find them? Or because they haven't been trained in accompanying so don't feel confident?

Those that are trained in accompanying seem to have no shortage of work.
BadStrad
I think it's partly because an accompanist has to have the skills to play the pieces and also the ability to react to the other player(s). They need a generosity of performance that allows the other player to shine, but also needs to sparkle themselves when the music turns to them. So it's pretty hard work - focussing on your own line and the other player's. I suppose in that respect it's akin to being a quartet player.

It's a very different skill set to being a solo pianist. A friend from the Academy told me that many of the pianists were not good accompanists as they were used to playing as the soloist, not as part of a two (or more) part ensemble. So maybe - it's that good pianists don't like not being the soloist, or because they realise how hard it is to accompany.

I'm extremely lucky in this regard as my OH is an excellent accompanist - having cut his teeth working at ballet and performing arts schools. There are others in the area - but they are generally instrument teachers who CAN accompany for exams etc, but it's not their forte.

Not sure this answered your question, just a few thoughts based on what I've seen/experienced.
katyjay
I find accompanists through networking; making sure every time I'm in a position to do so, I ask any accompanist whose performance I have enjoyed for their contact details.

I also ask other musician contacts who they use, and add them to my list.

Which part of London are you in? Someone here may know a suitable person to help you.
Alicia Ocean
Why are there so few? Because it's a phenomenally difficult skill that tends to be very poorly paid.

The accompanist I use has to cancel lessons to make it to the exam centre - and while that's OK for their own pupil's exams when it comes to accompanying other people it's over an hour's round trip - at 30 pounds an hour. To accompany for a diploma I'd need to organise my accompanist to travel to the local big city with the conservatoire and pay travelling time, and petrol, and perhaps lunch too - well over 150 pounds.

In short, the paying public tend to balk at the true cost of employing an accompanist, and that doesn't encourage many to undertake this role.
Claudia's Mum
QUOTE(Alicia Ocean @ Mar 14 2012, 11:51 AM) *

Why are there so few? Because it's a phenomenally difficult skill that tends to be very poorly paid.

In short, the paying public tend to balk at the true cost of employing an accompanist, and that doesn't encourage many to undertake this role.

I can see that this is probably the major issue.
Halka
QUOTE(Claudia's Mum @ Mar 14 2012, 12:07 PM) *

QUOTE(Alicia Ocean @ Mar 14 2012, 11:51 AM) *

Why are there so few? Because it's a phenomenally difficult skill that tends to be very poorly paid.

In short, the paying public tend to balk at the true cost of employing an accompanist, and that doesn't encourage many to undertake this role.

I can see that this is probably the major issue.


We're lucky in that we've never had serious problems finding accompanists. Daughter is doing grade 8 recorder in a couple of weeks and her accompanist will be the same lady as accompanied her first ever exam - grade 1 cello more than 7 years ago. But she is a piano teacher and as Alicia says she does sometimes have to rearrange her own teaching to fit the exam in and I do always complain (no doubt unreasonably, and only to my family) about her charges - though I always pay whatever she asks meekly and without comment!!
AnnC
I don't find it difficult to find an accompanist, but I do find it difficult to find a GOOD accompanist. Even those who have been recommended to be by other musicians I wouldn't use again. A good accompanist can lift a performance. They also need to be able to sight read when needed, often in front of others, read photocopies with bits missing from the base line, seamlessly cover up any errors by the soloist, and congratulate them when it's over. They are, sadly few and far between, and the really good ones ask the money they deserve. Sadly, many people say "'Ow much??"
Youngpianoteacher
I agree with the above comments....

As a pianist myself I enjoy both solo performances and accompanying and actively try to get work for both. However it is often not good 'business sense' for me to do alot of accompanying as it takes up alot of my time for practice and the monetary rewards are, as others have suggested, low at the best of times.

I remember at university ending up being asked to do far more accompanying than I was meant to do, simply because of the requirements needed and if anyone is good at accompanying they get jumped on immediately.

All I can say is keep searching, we're out there... but often accompanists need to charge a premium because of the nature of the work and that puts some people off.
FullofWind
Is it worth asking one of the JD conservatoire accompanists? This may be a problem if you need them for a Saturday performance but they potentially have time during the week. If it is for a festival then maybe the organisers could advise.
notmusimum


We are really lucky that the two festivals that daughter has done recently have official accompanists.

Her Piano teacher will also accompany and enjoys the opportunity to work with her on other instruments.

I think I'd ask at any local Conservatoires as they may well have 4th year students who would be happy to undertake this sort of work. If not ask your Music Service who they use for exams.

Good luck with finding someone.
Alicia Ocean
Most of the accompanists I know are well over fifty. They represent the tale end of a different world where many more people learned to play the piano as children.

I think the shortage of accompanists will get worse and worse over the next couple of decades and it will reach the point where either the exams will have the option of a backing track (for at least the lower grades) or maybe some forward thinking exam board will provide an accompanist like for a festival.
jpiano
Yes, if you are based in an area with a music college or university music department then I would think it's worth enquiring there to see if any students are interested. Speaking from the point of view as a busy piano teacher, I've been offered, and had to turn down, occasional accompanying work as it would involve large scale rearrangements of teaching. Unless the exam date happened to fall during a quiet time of the day, for many private teachers, accepting an ad hoc engagement would involve rescheduling or losing fees and letting down regular clients.
BerkshireMum
QUOTE(AnnC @ Mar 14 2012, 03:06 PM) *

I don't find it difficult to find an accompanist, but I do find it difficult to find a GOOD accompanist. Even those who have been recommended to be by other musicians I wouldn't use again. A good accompanist can lift a performance. They also need to be able to sight read when needed, often in front of others, read photocopies with bits missing from the base line, seamlessly cover up any errors by the soloist, and congratulate them when it's over. They are, sadly few and far between, and the really good ones ask the money they deserve. Sadly, many people say "'Ow much??"

I'd take issue with this. My son was lucky to have an excellent accompanist for his diploma. Because she had regular work at the music centre she knew the students really well and I suspect had a soft spot for them. She asked so little for her wonderful services that I paid her more than she asked for.

At lower grades accompaniments are often easy to play and any pianist will do. I used to play for my children's exams up to and including grade 5, but if I had been unable to do this I would have been happy to ask a retired friend to play. For grades 7 and 8 it is worth paying for someone more used to accompanying, and instrumental teachers usually have contact details for people they have used in the past.
barncottagecat
The three most skilled accompanists I know are all also organists. Is this a coincidence I wonder? Perhaps try local organists claudias mum?
Chris H
My son is usually accompanied by a retired school music teacher, who does not charge. I think we must be very lucky. If the retired teacher can't do it, then my piano teacher steps in. She charges but last time just asked me to give her whatever I wanted to, which was a bit tricky without knowing the going rate. We have recently also discovered a professional university accompanist, for when all other options fail. They are all excellent accompanists, I think we must be very lucky indeed.
Seer_Green
From an accompanist's point of view...

I thoroughly enjoy accompanying and generally prefer it to solo playing. From my point of view there are quite a few difficulties involved. The first is that people often leave it far too late to engage an accompanist. This is when it becomes difficult to fit in with other work, and people are often offended that you can't drop everything! Secondly, as others have pointed out, people aren't really willing to pay for a good accompanist. Thirdly, people don't realise what's involved in it. To get a good end performance you need to rehearse and get to know each other, particularly at the higher grades. All in all I can see why we now have so few accompanists - it's a great shame, but people need to be valued for the things they do.
Listener
QUOTE(AnnC @ Mar 14 2012, 03:06 PM) *

A good accompanist can lift a performance. They also need to be able to sight read when needed, often in front of others, read photocopies with bits missing from the base line, seamlessly cover up any errors by the soloist, and congratulate them when it's over. They are, sadly few and far between, and the really good ones ask the money they deserve. <...>"


And quite right too. They aren't a charity, they have mouths to feed just like the rest of us.

Lift a performance? Absolutely. Marvellous breed.
barry-clari
QUOTE(Alicia Ocean @ Mar 14 2012, 11:16 PM) *

I think the shortage of accompanists will get worse and worse over the next couple of decades and it will reach the point where either the exams will have the option of a backing track (for at least the lower grades) or maybe some forward thinking exam board will provide an accompanist like for a festival.

Agree that the shortage of good accompanists is likely to become more acute : but I think it most unlikely, on cost grounds, that any examining board will provide an accompanist a la festival - this is also likely, were it to happen, to adversely hit other accompanists' work, making the shortage worse.
Claudia's Mum
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.
VH2
QUOTE(Seer_Green @ Mar 15 2012, 09:51 AM) *

From an accompanist's point of view...

Seer Green seems to have summarized it well

QUOTE(Seer_Green @ Mar 15 2012, 09:51 AM) *

people often leave it far too late to engage an accompanist.

Enough said.

QUOTE(Seer_Green @ Mar 15 2012, 09:51 AM) *

people aren't really willing to pay for a good accompanist.

I think this is the main problem. It is odd how someone will pay a plumber several hundred pounds for a call-out, but begrudges a similar amount for an accompanist that has spent much longer learning their skill, and may have spent several hours in specific preparation too.

People are just unrealistic when the accompanist quotes a fee that is probably as low as they can go and still make the whole enterprise professionally worthwhile (i.e. contribute to making a living), and they see it as way too high.

Accompanying someone in a half hour-exam exam can easily take 2 or 3 hours or more out of a day, incur travel costs, and take some time in preparation. It only becomes modestly priced if the accompanist can accompany several candidates at the same session, and spread the travel costs and preparation costs between them.

QUOTE(Seer_Green @ Mar 15 2012, 09:51 AM) *

Thirdly, people don't realise what's involved in it.

Too true. Most people think that you simply put the score on the rack and play from it. That is possible, but when it can affect someone's prospects in an exam or an audition then there is a moral duty to do a good job, and unless you are a fantastic sight reader, or have played the piece before, or it is a very easy piece, then a lot of preparation may be required.
Yet another muso
Very good to see this being discussed on the forums and the challenges of being an accompanist being highlighted. One of the great problems is how often I am asked at short notice to travel a large distance to play for just one exam. The exam itself may require just a few minutes of playing but of course I can only accept such work if I charge a fee that may appear unreasonable due to it taking a large chunk out of the day to get there and back, in the unlikely event that I'm actually free and not teaching or playing elsewhere at the time.

I can quite understand people not wanting to pay so much in the circumstances but there's not a lot we can do about it. It is so frustrating to get asked to do a whole raft of exams each session, usually in various different centres and and varying days, and as a result I have to turn most down. Much as it would be extra work for ABRSM, it could make life so much simpler for pianists and candidates alike if they offered an official accompanist service. Anyone entering could pay an additional fee to ABRSM if they wanted an official accompanist, then all those requesting the official accompanist could be grouped together on the same days as each other. The amount paid by the candidates would cover the extra admin costs for ABRSM to organise it, plus of course to pay the pianists. The pianists, working for a full day, would therefore play for a very large number of candidates, so even on a fair hourly rate this would work out less expensive per candidate than when a pianist has to travel a long way just to play for one person. It would therefore be less stressful and costly for students and teachers, and pianists, rather than being constantly asked to play for individual candidates, can just go to a centre, get the work done in a day and get a fair days pay for a days work. Of course requesting an official accompanist would be entirely optional, and anyone who wants their teacher or anyone else they know to play could still do so as at present.

I accept this is probably never going to happen so this chaotic and frustrating situation will continue every term. Assuming this is the case, if people continue to quibble at accompanists charging to cover the time involved in getting to people's exams, pianists are going to decide more and more that it is just simpler to stop accompanying and to teach full time where we are not made guilty to earn a living. Pianists who give into the guilt and do not charge properly are just as guilty as it makes life even harder for the rest of us. I completely understand that after paying out for lessons then the exam fee, a high fee for an accompanist can be the final straw, but by quibbling this, you are saying that our work is less valid than that of teachers.

I should add that accompanying is what I love most about playing the piano, but it doesn't stop the situation being frustrating!
Tenor Viol
One of my choirs has enough funds to engage an accompanist for all rehearsals - it's a major role and we spent some effort recruiting a new one 18 months ago when our previous very good accompanist and organist sadly moved away.

Not only do they need to be able to play the orchestral reduction in the vocal score, but need to be able to reduce and play all of the vocal parts if necessary (hence why many are often organists).

We pay a bit over GBP50 per two hour rehearsal plus a concert fee if they perform in the concert, the level of which depends on the role - rather more for playing one of the piano parts in the Brahms Requiem than for Christmas carols (between about GBP120 upto about GBP250)!

Our current accompanist has a day job, whereas our previous accompanist that was his job and he was always in demand.

Accompaniment is a skill in its own right.
BerkshireMum
QUOTE(Tenor Viol @ Mar 17 2012, 09:44 AM) *

One of my choirs has enough funds to engage an accompanist for all rehearsals - it's a major role and we spent some effort recruiting a new one 18 months ago when our previous very good accompanist and organist sadly moved away.

Not only do they need to be able to play the orchestral reduction in the vocal score, but need to be able to reduce and play all of the vocal parts if necessary (hence why many are often organists).

We pay a bit over GBP50 per two hour rehearsal plus a concert fee if they perform in the concert, the level of which depends on the role - rather more for playing one of the piano parts in the Brahms Requiem than for Christmas carols (between about GBP120 upto about GBP250)!

Our current accompanist has a day job, whereas our previous accompanist that was his job and he was always in demand.

Accompaniment is a skill in its own right.


agree.gif The current Choral accompanist here is absolutely fantastic. About a year ago he took and passed his FRCM and I went to the charity recital he did of his programme in a local church - wonderful! He has a day job, and I don't know what he is paid for playing at rehearsals, but it's presumably something similar to what your society pays. He's worth every penny! I used to sit open-mouthed as he skilfully played at sight some new piece which had come in, whilst the singers struggled to follow their one line of music! biggrin.gif
sbhoa
QUOTE(Yet another muso @ Mar 17 2012, 12:11 AM) *

I completely understand that after paying out for lessons then the exam fee, a high fee for an accompanist can be the final straw, but by quibbling this, you are saying that our work is less valid than that of teachers.

I should add that accompanying is what I love most about playing the piano, but it doesn't stop the situation being frustrating!

Perhaps some of the resistance is that when opting their children into doing an exam the instrumental teacher doesn't always point out that on top of the exam fee there will be a substantial amount needed to pay the accompanist for rehearsal and for the exam.
It's a problem for those playing instruments which need an accompanist where the teacher either doesn't play piano well enough or has to work where there is no access to a piano. It can be hard to accept that your child's exam is actually going to be more than twice the cost of the exam (and that's if you take the bare minimum amount of time with an accompanist which can be not enough if exams are the only experience of playing the pieces with the piano).
Alicia Ocean
I think the current situation has arisen from an earlier age when many more people played the piano. Instrumental teachers would by and large accompany their own pupils, and if not, there would be plenty of people - parents of pupils even - to step in.

I doubt the current requirements for a live accompanist that you have to provide yourself would have been brought in had the exam system started now. Given that the exam boards are trying to run themselves as businesses it's just an unfathomably onerous requirement.

Meanwhile a group of local teachers has got together and we enter our candidates in the name of the accompanist. We don't get our names on the certificates but everyone gets a good deal.
sbhoa
QUOTE(Alicia Ocean @ Mar 17 2012, 01:36 PM) *

I doubt the current requirements for a live accompanist that you have to provide yourself would have been brought in had the exam system started now. Given that the exam boards are trying to run themselves as businesses it's just an unfathomably onerous requirement.


I think for solo work learning how to play with a live accompanist does matter. A recorded accompaniment can be useful but it doesn't really help with learning how to lead as a soloist..... then again only playing with an accompanist for maybe less than an hour for exam purposes only doesn't really give much time for that though careful choice of duet playing can go some way.
I wonder whether most people learning to play these instruments are only really interested in playing in bands/orchestras? For them the whole pianist thing might seem more of an issue.
anacrusis
I'm going to take issue with BM that at the lower grades "any accompanist will do" - no, they won't, you really need just the same skill level as for a more advanced player. A littlie playing thirty two bars of tweedle doodle deet, if they get lost, will still need to be rescued, will still need the help a steady accompanying beat can give, and even worse, because the littlie is only playing tweedle doodle deet, the accompanying part may well be somewhat difficult to compensate musically.

I do know, with my advanced player hat on now, how vital good accompaniment is if one wants to be able to give of one's best in a performance. When I played in the music festival locally, there was an option to use official accompanists, and quite frankly, having heard them on the day, I was very relieved to have had the assitance of YetAnotherPianist (and a harpsichord tuned by my husband) instead - not one of those others understood the idiom of the early music they were playing, nor were they able to respond to glitsches the way that YAP can. What effectively came across was two separate performances, by accompanist and instrumentalist, just at the same time as each other: YAP matches playing style, ornamentation and articulation too, and there is a sense of dialogue when playing together.

The same was true in Egham, not so long ago: corenfa picked up the score she'd got, and was able to key into what I was doing seamlessly, leaving me free to play as expressively as I wanted...players like that lift what the soloist is doing - it's not so much accompaniment as playing together in that situation And yes, skill like that needs proper remuneration, and acknowledgement.
katica
QUOTE(anacrusis @ Mar 17 2012, 08:21 AM) *

I'm going to take issue with BM that at the lower grades "any accompanist will do" - no, they won't, you really need just the same skill level as for a more advanced player. A littlie playing thirty two bars of tweedle doodle deet, if they get lost, will still need to be rescued, will still need the help a steady accompanying beat can give, and even worse, because the littlie is only playing tweedle doodle deet, the accompanying part may well be somewhat difficult to compensate musically.

I do know, with my advanced player hat on now, how vital good accompaniment is if one wants to be able to give of one's best in a performance. When I played in the music festival locally, there was an option to use official accompanists, and quite frankly, having heard them on the day, I was very relieved to have had the assitance of YetAnotherPianist (and a harpsichord tuned by my husband) instead - not one of those others understood the idiom of the early music they were playing, nor were they able to respond to glitsches the way that YAP can. What effectively came across was two separate performances, by accompanist and instrumentalist, just at the same time as each other: YAP matches playing style, ornamentation and articulation too, and there is a sense of dialogue when playing together.

The same was true in Egham, not so long ago: corenfa picked up the score she'd got, and was able to key into what I was doing seamlessly, leaving me free to play as expressively as I wanted...players like that lift what the soloist is doing - it's not so much accompaniment as playing together in that situation And yes, skill like that needs proper remuneration, and acknowledgement.

agree.gif

I think accompanying well is a remarkable skill. And if the pianist doesn't have it, it can be very unsettling to a solo player, especially if inexperienced or nervous anyway.

A pianist here told me she her graduate-level qualification (from Cuba) is a specialism in piano accompaniment. I think it's a great thing there's recognition of the specific skills required.

It's probably even more difficult to find pianists able to accompany here. Very few families can afford acoustic pianos and probably these days even fewer of those take piano lessons as kids (same as in the UK, according to AO). With the availability of digital pianos, the situation may pick up but it's at bit of a low right now. I was lucky to have an excellent young pianist accompany me in my first accompanied recital, and a friend (amazingly for these parts, also a harpsichordist) for the second, but it's quite a challenge to find competent pianists with the time, even if you're prepared to pay.

I've resorted to backing tracks - for pieces for which I can get them - to get a feel of how the music sounds together. But obviously, as sbhoa says, it's not the same as interacting with a real pianist. For me playing at Forum activities and also at Dartington last year gave me a wonderful experience of being able to play with pianists. If only more exam-takers could actually appreciate and enjoy it.
sbhoa
QUOTE(katica @ Mar 17 2012, 03:34 PM) *

If only more exam-takers could actually appreciate and enjoy it.

I know it's not what everybody either wants, can afford to do or can manage to organise or have time for but I've started having a monthly session with a good accompanist. My clarinet teacher is a more than decent pianist and accompanist but I'm now playing music with much more challenging piano parts. I've not done this with exams in mind.
I think part of it is that if I wasn't going to be able to play the higher level music with the accompaniments it seemed as though it was hardly worth bothering carrying on with lessons as it would mean that my playing was going to be more restricted to ensemble playing..... I know that this isn't really true but the thought was there and after some talking about whether it was a good idea I found myself an accompanist to work with.
AnnC
Anacrusis says. "I'm going to take issue with BM that at the lower grades "any accompanist will do" - no, they won't."

I agree. An accompanist I know from when I was at music college was playing for a singer who managed to get into the wrong key. No matter - he simply changed key to match. How many can do that? They are worth their weight in gold and I simply won't let my students sing with just any pianist. It doesn't help them one bit, but it does help them learn about the teamwork of performance when the pianist is a good accompanist.
Seer_Green
QUOTE(sbhoa @ Mar 17 2012, 03:44 PM) *

QUOTE(katica @ Mar 17 2012, 03:34 PM) *

If only more exam-takers could actually appreciate and enjoy it.

I know it's not what everybody either wants, can afford to do or can manage to organise or have time for but I've started having a monthly session with a good accompanist. My clarinet teacher is a more than decent pianist and accompanist but I'm now playing music with much more challenging piano parts. I've not done this with exams in mind.
I think part of it is that if I wasn't going to be able to play the higher level music with the accompaniments it seemed as though it was hardly worth bothering carrying on with lessons as it would mean that my playing was going to be more restricted to ensemble playing..... I know that this isn't really true but the thought was there and after some talking about whether it was a good idea I found myself an accompanist to work with.

I just think that's great - I really wish more people would do that. I do quite a bit of accompanying for a teacher in a neighbouring town. She doesn't really play well enough to accompany them herself even in lessons. Consequently, it's very obvious that they all learnt to play to backing tracks - most of them get a couple of rehearsals before their exam, but really, they have no idea about playing with a live accompanist. They haven't developed the skills of leading a performance because of course with a CD, you just go with it. As a result, my feeling is that the musicality of their performances is really lacking - I also think that because they don't practise with me until the last minute, it's a bit of a shock!

On another note, I was rung up by a girl the other day who wanted help for a uni audition - she had to sing a song but she'd never ever done this with piano and this was all the uni provided. It was obviously a great shock to her (and my goodness she struggled when she had the one and only rehearsal she could afford!).

I know we've had discussions before about whether or not teachers should be able to accompany (to one degree or another) themselves. I think that personally, I'd prefer a teacher who could accompany (at least in lessons) to one who couldn't, but that's personal preference. There's nothing to say that teachers have to accompany their pupils at all. I do feel strongly that learning to play/sing with an accompanist is an important skill to learn.
Roseau
QUOTE(katica @ Mar 17 2012, 04:34 PM) *

A pianist here told me she her graduate-level qualification (from Cuba) is a specialism in piano accompaniment. I think it's a great thing there's recognition of the specific skills required.

In France music students studying the piano in the equivalent of post A-level Conservatoires have to choose to major either in "performance" or "accompaniment."
Deborah
QUOTE(sbhoa @ Mar 17 2012, 11:32 AM) *

It's a problem for those playing instruments which need an accompanist where the teacher either doesn't play piano well enough

Certainly in my case, and I would guess that of many others, piano is a second instrument. Some of the more demanding accompaniments, particularly for the higher grades, would require more learning time than I currently have available, and that's even just to get my fingers around the notes, let alone to give a good musical rendition. Far better pianists than me have turned quite pale when I've mentioned the Brahms sonatas!

QUOTE(AnnC @ Mar 17 2012, 04:42 PM) *

Anacrusis says. "I'm going to take issue with BM that at the lower grades "any accompanist will do" - no, they won't."

I agree. An accompanist I know from when I was at music college was playing for a singer who managed to get into the wrong key. No matter - he simply changed key to match. How many can do that? They are worth their weight in gold and I simply won't let my students sing with just any pianist. It doesn't help them one bit, but it does help them learn about the teamwork of performance when the pianist is a good accompanist.

Not quite at the same level, but one of my pupils skipped a beat in her Grade 1 exam a few sessions ago. If I hadn't realised what had happened and reacted accordingly, it would have all fallen apart very very quickly. If the examiner noticed what had happened, he didn't say anything woot.gif

Playing the piano is a skill; accompanying is one skill further.
notmusimum
QUOTE(sbhoa @ Mar 17 2012, 03:44 PM) *

QUOTE(katica @ Mar 17 2012, 03:34 PM) *

If only more exam-takers could actually appreciate and enjoy it.

I know it's not what everybody either wants, can afford to do or can manage to organise or have time for but I've started having a monthly session with a good accompanist. My clarinet teacher is a more than decent pianist and accompanist but I'm now playing music with much more challenging piano parts. I've not done this with exams in mind.
I think part of it is that if I wasn't going to be able to play the higher level music with the accompaniments it seemed as though it was hardly worth bothering carrying on with lessons as it would mean that my playing was going to be more restricted to ensemble playing..... I know that this isn't really true but the thought was there and after some talking about whether it was a good idea I found myself an accompanist to work with.



It's good sometimes to play pieces with piano even if they aren't for exams. We are so lucky that Emsoboe has a piano teacher who is more than willing to play for her. He's particularly knowledgable of sax repertoire which is lucky for us.

QUOTE(Seer_Green @ Mar 17 2012, 04:51 PM) *

I just think that's great - I really wish more people would do that. I do quite a bit of accompanying for a teacher in a neighbouring town. She doesn't really play well enough to accompany them herself even in lessons. Consequently, it's very obvious that they all learnt to play to backing tracks - most of them get a couple of rehearsals before their exam, but really, they have no idea about playing with a live accompanist. They haven't developed the skills of leading a performance because of course with a CD, you just go with it. As a result, my feeling is that the musicality of their performances is really lacking - I also think that because they don't practise with me until the last minute, it's a bit of a shock!


You are spot on playing with a live accompanist is so different to playing to backing tracks and it is a skill in itself for the soloist too.
anacrusis
Do any of those who accompany well also give tuition in accompaniment? Can it actually be taught? I'm just thinking as I go here - I know that until relatively recently I had very few ensemble skills - even by the time I'd done my second diploma, I really didn't know how to blend with others, and in my case that is being learned by joining a recorder orchestra. However, the first instrument for which I had regular tuition was piano, and that involved years of facing the wall, playing to myself....how on earth does one go about learning accompaniment?
Seer_Green
QUOTE(anacrusis @ Mar 17 2012, 06:10 PM) *

Do any of those who accompany well also give tuition in accompaniment? Can it actually be taught? I'm just thinking as I go here - I know that until relatively recently I had very few ensemble skills - even by the time I'd done my second diploma, I really didn't know how to blend with others, and in my case that is being learned by joining a recorder orchestra. However, the first instrument for which I had regular tuition was piano, and that involved years of facing the wall, playing to myself....how on earth does one go about learning accompaniment?

Interesting...I would certainly be more than willing to help and advise would-be accompanists, I think that a lot can be taught obviously alongside practical 'application'. Certainly I've never been taught how to accompany, but I've picked up and awful lot of tips and pointers from other accompanists. Interestingly I try to get all my piano pupils to have a go at accompanying because more than anything else, it teaches you a lot about your own playing.

If I'd had the chance, I'd love to have gone and studied/specialised in accompanying - for me, it is far more rewarding than solo playing.
sbhoa
QUOTE(notmusimum @ Mar 17 2012, 05:59 PM) *

QUOTE(Seer_Green @ Mar 17 2012, 04:51 PM) *

I just think that's great - I really wish more people would do that. I do quite a bit of accompanying for a teacher in a neighbouring town. She doesn't really play well enough to accompany them herself even in lessons. Consequently, it's very obvious that they all learnt to play to backing tracks - most of them get a couple of rehearsals before their exam, but really, they have no idea about playing with a live accompanist. They haven't developed the skills of leading a performance because of course with a CD, you just go with it. As a result, my feeling is that the musicality of their performances is really lacking - I also think that because they don't practise with me until the last minute, it's a bit of a shock!


You are spot on playing with a live accompanist is so different to playing to backing tracks and it is a skill in itself for the soloist too.

I think that the arrangement I have works because I know what I can do and what I can't do (yet).
In the early stages I think that a better arrangement would be to have maybe on lesson a month with an accompanist there but directed by the instrument teacher but that's potentially a whole lot more complicated to set up. For a less experienced student to be working with an accompanist the teacher may well want to be sure that there is not going to be conflicting advice?
Even if a regular arrangement is possible it's still an extra expense for what is already an expensive pastime.
Tenor Viol
QUOTE(anacrusis @ Mar 17 2012, 06:10 PM) *
Do any of those who accompany well also give tuition in accompaniment? Can it actually be taught? I'm just thinking as I go here - I know that until relatively recently I had very few ensemble skills - even by the time I'd done my second diploma, I really didn't know how to blend with others, and in my case that is being learned by joining a recorder orchestra. However, the first instrument for which I had regular tuition was piano, and that involved years of facing the wall, playing to myself....how on earth does one go about learning accompaniment?

Our previous accompanist had specialised in accompaniment when at conservatoire

EDIT: I should add he's FRCO as well....
anacrusis
Interesting: that also, to my mind, highlights part of the problem: you actually need to be a pretty good player to be able to accompany in the first place smile.gif.

It got me thinking further about the issue of ensemble playing and the comparative lack of opportunities for pianists - violins or flutes, clarinets or mixtures of those, all can find some duetting material, or orchestral or other ensemble experience, but again, for pianists it's relatively limited. My sister and I played a few piano duets as kids...but for that one needs someone to practise with. How many of the piano teachers on here are able to pair up their pupils with others for duetting, or indeed with the pupils of different instrumentalists, to practise that aspect of musicality?
Roseau
QUOTE(anacrusis @ Mar 17 2012, 08:06 PM) *

Interesting: that also, to my mind, highlights part of the problem: you actually need to be a pretty good player to be able to accompany in the first place smile.gif.

It got me thinking further about the issue of ensemble playing and the comparative lack of opportunities for pianists - violins or flutes, clarinets or mixtures of those, all can find some duetting material, or orchestral or other ensemble experience, but again, for pianists it's relatively limited. My sister and I played a few piano duets as kids...but for that one needs someone to practise with. How many of the piano teachers on here are able to pair up their pupils with others for duetting, or indeed with the pupils of different instrumentalists, to practise that aspect of musicality?

My daughter's piano teacher gets her pupils to accompany others from a very early stage - she says (rightly so) that this is really the only experience most of them will ever have of playing with other musicians. She makes use of siblings and friends who play an orchestral instrument to provide the solo line and all her "piano" concerts always have a couple of pieces where her pupil is accompanying another instrument.

I was my daughter's "soloist" the first time she accompanied in public. It was a very simple duet piece - I played the top part (which if it had been on the piano would have had both hands playing an octave apart) and my daughter played the bass part. The other two times she has accompanied (first her sister and then her friend) her teacher managed to find instrumental pieces with a relatively easy piano part.

She definitely teaches them to accompany - I saw this when I was my daughter's soloist as she was pointing out to her (and demonstrating) things like looking at the soloist to make sure they are ready to start, how to listen for a breath, how to adapt the dynamics to what the soloist is doing etc.
corenfa
anacrusis, thank you for your kind words... blush.gif I am happy that you felt that you got a lot out of our impromptu performance, I definitely enjoyed playing with you. I find accompanying much more satisfying than solo playing and I do enjoy accompanying at Egham and other events "just for fun". For me anyway the "just for fun" bit of it is important and if I was to try and do it for money I would just collapse.

I am not a professional accompanist, but here's some thoughts on how I feel I have developed as an accompanist without any formal "training" - I went through the music exam sausage machine as a child and mostly played solo stuff on piano then started accompanying people on an informal basis in university and now. Please don't read these as me trying to give advice, I don't think I am qualified to do so. They are just my thoughts on my own musical development. Maybe others will find them helpful.

* I've played a lot of ensemble stuff. Chamber music as well as orchestra, and I tried very hard to listen and blend. Especially in chamber music I tried to keep eye contact with my group and pick up on things like when the others are going to breathe (I played most of my chamber music on horn). Having played a wind instrument before has made me very conscious of breathing and trying to follow either the wind player's breaths, or string player's bowing.

* I've listened to a lot of music (did music in university but only an academic degree, not performance) and have a rough idea of how to fake different styles within the common-practise period (Baroque, classical, romantic). I would be seriously undone if I tried to play anything before baroque or anything 20th-century without much preparation. (And regardless of period of the piece, I do have to spend time learning notes because I don't do it that often)

* I have done enough harmony to know when I can drop notes out if I can't manage technically. I can usually provide a skeleton for the soloist.

* Another thing about having listened to a lot of music is being familiar with musical idiom - this I find very hard to describe, but it's things like knowing when a phrase is going to intensify so doing it along with the soloist, or when the piece just seems to indicate a rit. or rubato.

I don't always get it right, I have played with people who during rehearsal tell me I am going too fast or too slow or they would like it played differently. To my mind, they are always right - I must follow them, it's not my time in the spotlight (nobody has asked me to do anything ridiculous and obviously wrong yet). I like it when my soloists tell me what I need to do.

Well, I haven't really added any new information about why it is so difficult to find an accompanist, but here are a few thoughts from a sometime-accompanist-on-an-informal-basis smile.gif
emsmummy
We are very very lucky that DD's lovely piano teacher accompanies her - in the 6 weeks or so leading up to an exam she spends 15 mins of a 45 min piano lesson running through pieces - more if there is a problem. This means there isn't a last minute panic, and DD plays with someone she knows well, which is important as she is only little. She is now learning to 'take charge' of the performance, but also in the back of her mind knows the teacher well enough to know she will be 'rescued' if she makes a mistake.

The teacher in question is extremely well qaulified and experienced, and wouldn't let me pay a penny for accompanying Gr5 yesterday - the exam centre is very close to both our homes, but even so it was an hour of her time - I will be visiting the local florist first thing on Monday!!!
Cyrilla
A good accompanist is worth their weight in gold and should be paid accordingly, IMHO!!!

I have the most WONDERFUL accompanist who works with me and my school choir and with whole school hymn practices. We've worked together now for about twenty years (eep!) and know each other so well that it is like slipping on something VERY comfortable to wear smile.gif .

She gives subtle notes without me asking...supports the children's singing in a remarkable way...I only have to breathe in and she's THERE.

At my previous school I had a pretty high-profile choir and she got me out of a couple of scrapes at big concerts at big venues - once when I brought the children in too soon and once too late. She just covered for us and no-one noticed.

She is a total goddess and has always been my safety-net on the big occasions.

I have had others play for me in the past - excellent musicians, but not in her league as an ACCOMPANIST.

wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif
Clari Nicki1
When he was alive, my dad accompanied me and my children for all performances and exams etc. He really was a fine pianist and I didn't realise how good a sight reader and accompanist he was. I just took it for granted that he'd accompany. It never occurred to me that some of the accompaniments were really hard.

Now, I struggle to get a good accompanist for my own higher standard pupils. My usual accompanist, who is very good, won't do the very high exam grades as she needs to spend more time learning the pieces than is worth what she could ask. I can sort of work my way through the lower grade accompaniments now (well a lot of them) but I would not even attempt this with the harder pieces. So the students don't get to play with the accompanist until an exam or performance is pending.... not ideal....

I am thinking of trying to combine with another teacher and maybe having a session every half term when we hire an accompanist and more advanced students can come along and put the piece they are learning together with the accompanist. Then the students can get to know the accompanist before an exam- we can build up relationships with an accompanist who then maybe able to help us out more.
I have a student who cannot play at a school concert next week as we can't get an accompanist to play the Brahms clarinet sonata piano part.... and another who has to play a piece with a CD backing track in the same concert. That's when I really miss my dad- he'd have done it and not batted an eyelid! I now appreciate he had a skill I just took for granted growing up!




all ears
I've wished for many years that ABRSM would include accompaniment in the piano syllabus - it seems beyond strange that other instruments (except for classical guitar in most cases) require pieces to be played with piano accompaniment, yet the piano syllabus completely ignores it!

At first, all the courses I could find were postgrad ones. Then I found that some courses in "collaborative piano" were around, but again only for the advanced pianist. Those of you in the UK so seem to have some summer school courses aimed at the amateur pianist, though. In Japan, there seems to be a divide between "playing the music and adjusting to the instrumentalists/singers" and "improvising an accompaniment" - don't know what the focus is for UK accompanists. If anybody knows of a course (especially one leading to qualification or some kind of certification) please let us all know.
A.U.K
I am currently searching for a new accompanist and am in the process of finding/audtioning some. I know when I say audition that it sounds terribly grand but the fact is that I feel there has to be a rapport bewteen the two performers or it's dead in the water. Accompanying is a great skill, knowing when to help or when to back off and give the instrumentalist room. Finding a accompanist who can shine, blend or almost dissapear is a huge challenge.

I have given up locally and am now trying various accompanists in London which is a bit of a slog but if I find the right one then it will be worth it. I will go to London once a month or so and just run through works with them on a regular basis so we almost seem to breathe in and out together then step things up prior to a performance or exam. I believe very strongly that it's important to work regularly with an accompanist so it becomes as natural as possible but I concede it's the very devil of a job finding one. There are a lot of "Thumpers" around but very few with finesse.

All anyone can do is keep searching until the right person is found, recomendation is a good starting point but other than that it can be an uphill struggle.
AnnC
QUOTE(A.U.K @ Mar 18 2012, 08:20 AM) *

There are a lot of "Thumpers" around but very few with finesse.


And likewise there are a lot of people with finesse who don't give you a bit of "wellie" when you need it!
kenm
QUOTE(anacrusis @ Mar 17 2012, 06:10 PM) *
Do any of those who accompany well also give tuition in accompaniment? Can it actually be taught?

There are some aspects of the expertise of a good accompanist that can be taught or practised in isolation:

Secure keyboard technique (lack of which is my main reason for never having worked as an accompanist professionally);

Sight-reading, which is tested in diploma exams for accompanists;

Aural skills, in particular being aware of what everyone else is playing and immediately responding to errors and omissions.
A.U.K
QUOTE(AnnC @ Mar 18 2012, 10:27 AM) *

QUOTE(A.U.K @ Mar 18 2012, 08:20 AM) *

There are a lot of "Thumpers" around but very few with finesse.


And likewise there are a lot of people with finesse who don't give you a bit of "wellie" when you need it!


Ann thats a given, it's finding the balance thats the trick.

So I find one with Finesse and you find one with a bit of "Wellie" and we're good to go.. biggrin.gif
barry-clari
Reading this thread makes me feel very grateful that I've found such a wonderful regular accompanist (stand up, pcf biggrin.gif )
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.