Hi folks,

Although I have posted very little since I joined a few years ago, I often lurk around.

I am keen to hear about the experiences of other adults in a similar, typical situation to myself:
full time job; young family; busy weekend; 1 violin lesson every 3 weeks and between 2-4 hrs practice
a week.

I went back to violin lessons just over 2 1/2 years ago to get some pointers.
However, it quickly became apparent that I wanted to take the violin more seriously and after
a discussion with my teacher, we changed focus and what I wanted to achieve from lessons.

He is a fantastic teacher who teaches me technique and how to "play music" and keeps pushing me further as he knows I cam capable of more.

Over the last few years I have worked on Meditation where my teacher has said I played it G8 standard. Now I know it's not a G8 piece but I guess he means that the quality of my playing of that piece is what would be expected of G8 standard. I have spent considerable time doing a number of Carl Flesch scales and arpeggios etc working on getting the tuning spot on (no compromises!)

I have also worked on the Bach double, Moto Perpetuo (slowly), Czardas, Kreutzer, double stopping/chords and recently being doing the Dont study 3, first 6 lines of Kreutzer 24 and last night, slowly ran through the Praeludium and Allegro. My teacher has also been encouraging me to join a local amateur orchestra.

Why am I telling you all this?

Well I have been reading too many forum posts, especially over at violinist.com where it seems some
violinists have achieved so much in just a few years and it feels like I am way behind, never to progress beyond a certain point.

I trust my teacher 100% and I realise that due to time constraints, I can't cover all the study
material that a younger player working towards G8 or audition for a music school may be able to do.
I take the view that much can be still be gained for example, by working on just the first 6 lines of
Kreutzer 24 and Dont 3 at a slower speed than spending all my time just trying to get one study up to speed.

So I am keen to know how others with limited time progress each piece or study.
Do you revisit a study later on and work on building up speed?
Do you use pieces such as Moto Perpetuo to work on spicatto and even bounce stroke and fingering rather than play it as fast as possible?
I spend a good bit of time with Czardas working on tone and colour such as moving towards the bridge
and doing "stuff" with the bow to make the piece come alive which was excellent but I still struggle to
play sautille after several months of trying. I can get the basic bow stroke but crossing strings is difficult and Czardas falls apart at speed pretty quickly.
So, we have put this aside for now while I work on the bowing and will revisit later.

I guess I am just keen to hear that there are others out there like me that are making progress
albeit slowly.

Sounds like you are doing fine! I'm working hard on violin (amongst everything else) and manage about 4 hours practice a week. My teacher insists on 2 lessons most weeks, as we have done major revamp of technique and he wants to keep on top of it - and that puts pressure on me to fit practice in!

I have spent months using Moto perpetuo as a study, at every speed you can imagine etc to perfect string crossings, legato bowing, and just generally trying to get my RH and LH to relax and behave. I have done other pieces around it, but keep coming back to it.

My teacher is a firm believer of using the piece you are working on as a study rather than Mazas, Sevchik etc.

We have just started the Bruch violin concerto. Already (on the 1st page) there is so much technique to perfect! I just find it hard to manage to concentrate on everything at once - and not tense!

Don't get discouraged, sounds like you are getting along great and improving. Think about the suggestion of an Amateur orchestra, they are great for you (although normally not so good for intonation!!) but fantastic for sightreading, and generally a lot of fun!!

Maybe your stick is too stiff for sautille? As I understand it, different bows are better suited to different strokes, depending on their weight and flexibility. Just a thought...

Just being nosey - what grade were you before you re-started lessons. It sounds like you were quite advanced through the grades to me.

With a good teacher, progress is pretty much proportional to time spent playing. Some people might have a spurt of progress at the beginning, then stall. Others start slowly then zoom for a while. Both types will have periods of plateauing, but overall it's playing hours that make progress. If you can ring fence the time to get to an orchestra then those extra playing hours and the push of having to keep up will probably help.

It's so easy to be impatient, but music is one of the few things that you can't really blag your way through - there are no short cuts. You can't cram for an exam by learning half the notes and hoping they come up - you have to learn it all and the technique that goes with it - and that takes YEARS. I have a friend who is a world class, professional cellist and she still says that she "just keeps chipping away at it" (improving her playing).

I would say forget comparing yourself with others. It's rarely helpful, and let's face it, if every promising youngster made it to the top there'd be a lot of virtuosos out there - and there aren't. So keep chipping away at it - be the tortoise, not the hare!

Thanks for the replies.

Badstrad, I left school 23 years ago having done G5 and Higher music which was probably around G6. However, I did play in the youth orchestras including the Stratchclyde schools which helped technique.
Over the years, I have kept up playing for my own enjoyment every so often so the violin was quite familiar when I went back to lessons.

In some ways I do feel my age is an advantage over my younger self in that when I was younger, I was mainly concerned with technique while now I can also work on making my playing sound musical.

As for orchestra, I would love to join an orchestra - it would be so much fun and I love orchestral music. I have just been a big fearty that I make a fool of myself but from what I have read on here, and what Sunrise as said below. I guess the orchestra members will be used to new members like myself so will look at auditioning/joining an orchestra after the summer.

So, it seems typical to study pieces with getting it to performance level or up to speed?

Suzukimum, I think my stick is fine since I can now get the bow bouncing on the string. It's nos just down to practice of co-ordination and I am now starting to relax my right arm. But I would be interested to hear how difficult/easy others find sautille bowing for Czardas at speed.

Hi Tam, Yes - I would think that is the case. I had a chat to my teacher about this a while back. He/we tend to treat tunes as exercises - in that each one has something to teach me. Sometimes we polish some of them for performance - such as a forum event - but generally we move on without getting every one performance perfect. So over time we get to work on a variety of things including performance.

Sounds to me like you're doing great, but possibly also falling into the adult-student-pit of being too hard on yourself! One of the drawbacks of being an adult student is that you have a better idea of where you really want to be at, and so sometimes forget to see how much progress you are making.

My impression is that your teacher is taking a very sensible approach and you are following up well on lessons. Of course it's very true that progress is proportional to practice - but so long as practice is efficient and well directed, don't beat yourself up that you can manage 'only' 2-4 hours per week at the moment. I doubt there are many other young full-time working mums who can manage that consistently and keep all the other balls in their life up in the air as well.

Do try to find an orchestra to join - it will not only free up your playing and hone all those skills that you are working on, but also give you even more reason to enjoy that lovely violin.

ps I'm an upper strings teacher and I find I need to swot up on the Czardas before I teach it! The only way to be happy with it is to keep practicing it NOT until you CAN play it, but until you CAN'T NOT play it . It will come eventually!

One other thing is that you can accomplish alot in a 15 min slot....so if you find you have a little 10/15 min gap, mindful practice can be worth 30 mins of less focussed work. Just a thought.

I started to do this more recently and yea, it is benefitial as I even find that if I miss a few days I really miss it.

Thanks. Your probably right. I can see how far you can go with violin that I probably can't see the progress I am making now.
Come to think of it, my teacher spoke to me about making the d# on the Ai string in first line of the Dont 3 study sharper and how sometimes a note needs to be a little sharper so after I played the first line again he said "now that's what makes a violin teacher happy - playing in perfect tune" My point is that I might not be able to play it at speed yet or all the way through but by listening and intonation has improved greatly.


Yes, he is an excellent teacher. He knows that I want to be a good violinist and prepared to work so he is treating me this way rather than getting me to play a few fun pieces.


This made me laugh, I am actually a 41 year old male and have to be honest, I don't help around the house as much as my wife does haha. In fact my 8 year old boy/girl twins have started playing the violin so I do get involved in helping them practice.


That's settled it ..... I will definately look at joining an orchestra.

You've had some excellent answers to your post already... but I wanted to add that you should take forum posts with a pinch of salt. I am not saying this is the case on ABRSM forum as the strings people are pretty sensible but some people post any old nonsense on some fora claiming this and that and the other about how great they are. How do you know what is true and what isn't?
I'm just saying this because some claims seem to be a bit wild and I know what my ex-boyfriend used to write on a cycling forum about his cycling prowess compared to what he could actually do.........

I think you sound like you are doing pretty well and definitely get involved in an amateur orchestra.

[quote]
I doubt there are many other young full-time working mums who can manage that consistently and keep all the other balls in their life up in the air as well.
[/quote]
This made me laugh, I am actually a 41 year old male and have to be honest, I don't help around the house as much as my wife does haha. In fact my 8 year old boy/girl twins have started playing the violin so I do get involved in helping them practice.

[/quote]

Ooops, sorry !

How lovely to be able to play along and enjoy your twins' early steps in music making! Not only that, if they grow up hearing someone else in the house playing and practicing they have even more chance of seeing it as something normal as they grow and become independent musicians themselves.

[quote name='Minstrel' date='Mar 21 2012, 10:25 PM' post='1137070']
[quote]
I doubt there are many other young full-time working mums who can manage that consistently and keep all the other balls in their life up in the air as well.
[/quote]
This made me laugh, I am actually a 41 year old male and have to be honest, I don't help around the house as much as my wife does haha. In fact my 8 year old boy/girl twins have started playing the violin so I do get involved in helping them practice.

[/quote]

Ooops, sorry !

How lovely to be able to play along and enjoy your twins' early steps in music making! Not only that, if they grow up hearing someone else in the house playing and practicing they have even more chance of seeing it as something normal as they grow and become independent musicians themselves.
[/quote]

No worries, it just brought a smile to my face after a busy day,
As for my kids, that's a whole new thread!

They started recorder a few years ago and violin in Oct at a local music school.
However, my kids are like chalk and cheese.
Adam just want to get his practice out of the way and back to X box while
Hannah will stop and point to where she is on the page or stop and tell me
an interesting story.

This really got to me as I can be impatient and we argued!
Their teacher spoke to me and said that although they are her best pupils,
Hannah was not playing to the best of her ability. So, I realised that I
was being too much of a teacher at home and had to back off.

I now let them practice on their own but look in once a week to help with any di
fficulties. Then on a Friday, they do a recital using the big music stand and th
ey have to introduce their pieces by telling us what they have been "working on"
. It works really well as they have a goal and the Friday practice does not seem
like a practice. It's all a bit of fun for everyone and encourages them to play
in front of people.
~

That sounds brilliant - and a great idea. I teach my kids so I don't have the luxury of that approach!

That is so true.
I am also an amateur magician and a member of a prominent magic forum and I see this all the time.
Some magicians claim they have x many bookings per day and can get ?x hundred for a show etc etc
when the reality is far from that.

I guess even if there are those that have achieved so much in 2 years, I do not think they are capable of teaching. You need to time to absorb and develop those skills before you can pass them on.

I do like this forum as the members are just "typical" people at different stages of development and seem honest about their experiences and those with more experience are always willing to help.

In fact what got me back into violin (I think I posted this when I joined) was that I used my violin during my kids magic show for a funny routine where I joked that I could play violin but brought out one made from balloons; a toy one etc etc.



Thanks, that's good to hear and the replies have given me a big confidence boost that I am progressing well for the time I am able to put in and reminded me that we are all at different stages of development where decent musicians (people) don't look down on those still progressing

I should really start a new topic on this however, I will be lazy.

This is the way I feel about my kids playing music but slightly worried that they will reject music or just not care.

They are in their 3rd year at the Sat am music school and have played recorder since they started. They are also part of the choir and started violin in Oct while now only playing in the recorder group.
Every so often they tell me I can't make them go back to the music school and how they want to give it up but they do keep going and when they come out, they will be happy and tell me it was fun or "a wee bit good" with a smile on their face. Now that I have taken a step back from home practice, they are enjoying playing better and don't need much encouragement to practice.
From what their teacher has said, they are her top pupils (of that age group) and I think Adam has taken to it really well.
However, they are not so enthusiastic as I would hope, but I just put this down to kids not wanting to do anything but eat sweets, play and watch TV. I listen to a lot of classical music in the house and car and while they sometimes complain, they sometimes say it's a wee bit good. I guess my view is that if I can expose them to different types of music and to playing music without being too pushy, then they will grow up with the confidence to explore different types of music without following the crowd and hopefully experience the joy of music making.

I think one of the biggest attractions with music for children, especially learning an instrument, is that it doesn't take them long to realise that with even a little bit of practice they are 'better today than they were yesterday'!

It's that little kick of getting to the next level that often attracts them to video-games etc. and the same principle can be applied to learning an instrument.

I believe scientifically it releases endorphins too which is why we feel so good after a rehearsal where things have gone well and learning and achievement have progressed.


If I feel less inclined to practice I often take out a piece from a few months ago (even years) and remind myself how much 'better' I am now!!


It does wonders for self-esteem if others notice too so it's worth pointing that out to youngsters!