Son came home with a flyer for black-tie formal wear in his university enrolment pack. Teachers have already told him to have kit ready for short-notice work, as well as university performances. Unfortunately, I know that the brand they offer does not fit gorilla-arms Viohazard, especially when playing an instrument. The flyer depicts a rather odd get-up (wing collar shirt seems too formal for a shawl collar jacket to me).

I haven't been to a black tie event outside Japan for decades, so please tell: what black tie outfits are forumite men wearing (and their appreciative female colleagues observing)?

Viohazard himself wants a peaked lapel in grosgrain, and this is what my non-Japanese relatives have, but the standard here is shawl-collar...maybe more US in style, or maybe that's more common everywhere now???

And are people really wearing wing collars with all black-tie jackets?

We're not really a black tie event kind of family. However, 18 year old son has been to a couple of such events recently and has certainly worn wing collar shirts to both. At the first he borrowed his dad's, and at the time I thought it was a bit of a giggle, but on the second occasion we hired a dinner suit which came with a shirt and that, also, was wing collar. But I'm wondering if there's a distinction between dinners and performances .

I personally don't wear wing collar shirts with my tuxedo but some people I know do.

Also I don't think people wear shawl collar jackets for performances, at least I havn't anyone that has. I t may be different in Japan but here in England I don't think shawl collar jackets are very popular.

I was playing at a black tie event last night - all the men in the band were wearing normal collar shirts and standard collar jackets.

Shawl collars seem to have had a slight revival (60s nostalgia?) recently as both are currently available. I prefer notched lapel - youngsters seem to like peak lapels....

You need to be tall to get away with a double-breasted jacket, ergo I can't!

Personally, on the shirt front I prefer a standard two part collar (i.e. "normal") with a classic Marcella bib front.

Although I have a wing collar shirt, I tend to think they go better with tails than DJ. Choir dress soesn't currently run to tails

Not being expert on these things I've just checked out the "jacket lapels" page of Wikipedia! I agree that would look strange. To my mind the shawl collar looks like a dressing gown, so certainly wouldn't look good with wing collar. Son's hire suit had what seems to be described as "pointed" lapel on the website, and the pointy character of the wing collar suits the pointy nature of the lapel ok, I think.

Thank you all very much! Very informative. I would actually sew him a soft-front shirt if I had the time, but he would be toothless and I in my grave before it got finished.

I'm glad someone had to. This is all double dutch to me

Sometimes in orchestra my son wears a standard collar DJ, a white dress shirt with a normal collar and bow tie. At other time they wear black shirts and DJs. All thansks to Marks and Spencer who do a washable DJ.

Oooh yes. We have one of those. Very useful for teenage boys.

Much of the above went completely over my head - and I've been wearing DJs on and off since 1974!

My mother trained as a seamstress - so I've been told these things.... It also means I can't get away with wearing a badly made jacket as the sleeves will get close scrutiny, and the body length, and the sleeve length.... and the way it sits... and the fit across the shoulders.....

Just buy properly made, made in Britain, jacket and you're usually OK and to be fair if you know where to look, it can be no more expensive the M&S

EDIT: fix typos

Made in Britain might be a struggle from Japan, but I agree that custom-made is not always more expensive. Viohazard is not really tall, but he has ridiculously long arms. Getting a suit custom-made meant I could ask for a tiny bit more ease to be added in across the upper back - not enough to wrinkle, but it makes a difference when he has his arms forward playing piano etc. It also meant I could get a second pair of trousers, something that seems to have disappeared from the ready to wear suit.

By the way, one more question: vents. I know that a DJ really shouldn't have a vent, but considering how much time musicians spend sitting down, I wonder...do any of you prefer to have a back vent, and if so, do you go for one in the centre, or two at the sides?

I inherited some of my mother in law's sewing equipment, but sadly not her skills - she MADE my husband's first suits, and they were beautifully done.

P.S. I'm sure you'd like to know that in Japanese, a shirt with a stiff white bib front is called a "squid" shirt!

OK - tailor made definitely solves all issues The "no vents" thing is a bit daft since it makes sitting down poor and musicians need to move around. Personally, I'd always go for double vents where feasible.

Oh good, that's the answer I wanted to hear .

Computerized pattern-drafting has made it much faster and easier to alter a few measurements, so no reason why custom-made should be too expensive when the whole pattern is not drafted fresh by a skilled cutter.

The M& S washable ones are also part of thei budget range and are most affordable and seem to wash and wear well too.

I noticed these around Christmas time and we will be going down there to find son an outfit for his "Leavers Ball" at the end of April. The rental of dinner suit plus bits last time he needed one was about ?60, so M&S budget looks well worth it if there is a chance that it will get worn more than once.

We have a really bad clothes moth problem..... , so when son needed a suit for school I was reluctant to pay for anything more than M&S budget. We bought 2 pairs of trousers and jacket separately, and all have lasted well despite machine washing. And we did manage to get more trousers the same a year later when he suddenly slimmed down a size. So, I'm hopeful the dinner suits will be just as good..

However, probably not much help to OP in Japan..?

My older boys just wear Tesco Value jackets (they are just ordinary black jackets, not dinner jackets), with their old black school trousers and white school shirts (supermarket basic school uniform range).

With an appropriate bow tie (charity shop) it looks fine. They play brass and woodwind, so they are always at the back of the orchestra, most of the time you can hardly see them at all anyway. They always make sure clothes are clean, shirts and trousers well pressed, shoes well polished, socks are a true black. That is enough.

In college orchestras, there is usually some clown in the front of the orchestra in brightly coloured cartoon socks. So just make sure your son has enough black socks, and I hope he has a wonderful college experience.

RE: moths
We have had trouble with them too...started one year when I was out of the country in early Spring, when the adult moths seem to get busy planning for the future of the species. Usually I get cheap garment covers from the 100-yen store and make sure every suit is in a bag with a moth repellent. Annoying, but finally starting to pay off.

Elder son Airman will be in the UK this year, so UK advice will be useful for him (and I assume to other forumites too!), thanks.

Plain black suit and ordinary business shirt with black bow tie for those in the back rows, yep, that works! I bought my boys black jackets plus black trousers and grey trousers when they started high school, and they have been very useful. The only thing to watch out for is that jackets (as opposed to suits) tend to have brass buttons.

As you say, boys tend to get skinny when they start growing, and then they beef up again a bit in their late teens...that's really why I like the two-pants suits. I get one pair in the current size, and another with an adjuster at the waist and cuffs that can be let down easily in case of an unexpected late growth spurt.

Thin non-patterned black socks definitely require forward planning. Even in conservative Japan, they are not as common for business wear as they used to be. (Un)luckily Viohazard's huge feet mean that supermarket socks don't fit, so I order them by the dozen online.

I have an off-white men's evening scarf in Italian silk, but Viohazard does not yet know that he could wear it with a dinner jacket, and I am in no hurry to enlighten him!

I was brought up to understand that a wing collar with black tie was vulgar. It probably was so in the 1940s when those from whom I received my sartorial education were brought up, but the wing collar does seem to be rather popular with black tie these days. I would never wear it myself, but I appreciate that I'm probably more conservative than most on such points. The really important thing in my view when thinking about black and white tie is to learn how to tie the tie. It is so easy and I'm astonished that most men use a pre-tied one which tends to look rather bad.

I tie my own - including the ones I sometimes wear to work... As you say, it's not hard.