I posted a while back about starting lessons (violin) aged 29. Oddly enough I could no longer afford the lessons, then an advert came up in the local paper about a fun orchestra funded by a humanities council (?2 a week) keen to help adults learn. I am on the orchestra as a 2nd violinist. So basically does 2nd denote not that good (that's totally fine, why would I be a first? I can barely play (hehe)). I was wondering what the significance of 2nd was - 2nd as in smaller role? Lower notes?

Sorry I am not very musical (until now). Obviously being on the 2nd hockey team is more to my understanding

Thanks. Hope you are all well.

Firstly, well done for going for it!

2nd violin is generally slightly easier notes wise than 1st - it often avoids the really high passages. BUT it comes with its own challenges....more harmonies, off beats and rhythms. Really good for you to learn on and just have a good time! Don't panic if you can't keep up at the beginning, it takes a while to get used to sightreading in a group, just persevere and it will get easier!

Above all, HAVE FUN!!

Well done Yes, I echo Sunrise on this, enjoy it Laura Liz, that's the most important thing And 2nd anything is a very important role, you may not get all the fancy bits but 2nds do get solos and essential 'underneath' parts (in case you hadn't guessed, I play 2nd, although on clarinet in a concert band!)

If you play second violin in a Mozart work, you may be busier than the firsts; there will be passages in which they have a beautiful tune, while you have twice as many notes on an arpeggiated harmonic passage or a contrapuntal line. The conductor Peter Stark claims to be able to give a 30 minute lecture on the role of the second violin in Mozart, partly based on his orchestral experience as principal second (playing for Welsh National Opera, IIRC).

Another possibility is that firsts and seconds play the tune in octaves. In passages like this, George Hurst always insists that more of the sound must come from the seconds. Of course, this general principle applies to most octave passages. See, e.g., the opening of Shostakovich's 10th symphony. The first subject is stated by the basses and 'cellos in octaves; the 'cellos improve the definition, but the basses provide the essential sound quality.

No, Second does not denote "not that good"!!! As the others have said, you generally don't have as many high notes to contend with, but not everyone enjoys counting ledger lines anyway. You will have a more varied role than you would as a First. You'll probably do a mixture of playing:
- Melody, often together with the Firsts
- Counter-melody
- Harmony
- The inner texture and body of the orchestra (admittedly, sometimes it can get a bit dull playing the "cha cha" of the "um cha cha" accompaniment in Strauss waltzes and the like, but the piece would sound completely naff without it - it's essential!)

Soap box alert!
I feel very strongly that Second Violin is not a lesser role but one which has different demands. I can't bear the inferences of the phrase "playing second fiddle". It's unfortunate (but frequently true) that the less advanced players tend to be put in Seconds in amateur orchestras. Look to professional orchestras though, and you will find that Firsts and Seconds are equally strong players, and their salaries usually match too.

Anyway, back to you. Orchestral playing is a whole new journey, and your skills in sight-reading, following, listening and (dare I say it) miming will develop, as well as your playing. It can be jolly difficult, but it can also be exciting and hugely rewarding. It's great that the emphasis is on learning and fun, but be prepared to work hard. As a Second you are sitting right in the heart of the orchestra, and the sound there is fabulous. Enjoy yourself. And do report back.

oh yes learning to convincingly mime is the best skill to learn. You should also learn how to share notes out between you and your desk partner in fast passages! As long as your bow is going the right way you'll be fine.

This has brought back some lovely memories - miming good, except in exposed parts (I believe the opening-tune-motif-bit to the magic flute overture on Eb's start on seconds before the firsts come in if my memory is correctly preserved) and it becomes apparent who mimes and who lacks the confidence to play regardless of what the others are doing If you're a 2nd you'll end up one or the other.
On the other hand, you learn to count really well, even if you don't come in on time.

On a serious note, I wonder whether the conductor will consider swapping 1st & 2nds around every once in a while to provide a different perspective (and challenge any assumptions about ability or worthiness)?

One of my orchestras has just done this to me (after 2 years of playing 2nd, rather timorously!)
We'll see how that goes.....

When I went to see Nigel Kennedy last year he played duets some of the time with two of the violinists. One of them was actually a second violinist in the orchestra and I don't think anyone would say, "she is not that good" having heard her play.

Playing with an orchestra is a wonderful learning tool, even if you can't play most of the notes at first. First the waving the bow in the correct time and then getting it in contact with the strings. I found it a wonderful moment the first time I could actually hear myself playing out loud.