Hiya

I just have a very quick question. I did notice the other thread on the subject but got lost a bit trying to follow it. I was going to tag this onto the end, but since the contribution to the previous one was a while ago I didn't know if my question would be seen... So here goes:

On the way up from what I gather from the AB book you're playing the key signature plus sharpening the 6th and 7th (generally), but on the way down is it just a case of cancelling the accidentials that were played on the way (6th & 7th) up and just playing the key signature down, and does this apply to all minors melodic. If this is correct then it makes sense, if not I'll have to re-read it 'cause I'll be back to square one - confused and I don't have the next piano lesson for a couple of weeks to ask the teacher...

Many many thanks in advance...

Ps - just starting G3 theory!!

That's right.

Sbhoa - thanks so much, that was a speedy response. That actually does make sense.

Thank you

If you try to remember it as raising the 6th and 7th by a semitone, rather than 'sharps', you're less likely to get in a tangle with ones where this involves a natural to cancel a flat, or a double sharp to raise a sharp further.

Right, funny you should say that because now I've got the first piece straight I moved onto looking at some examples and picked G minor melodic and compared sharpening 6th & 7th to realise that the 6th has be naturalised... Why should this be I'm asking myself, now having read your contribution I think it makes sense, although the AB book talks about sharpen the 6th & 7th, which confused me!!!

I think you knew the exact trap I was going to fall into!!! :-)

When learning the scales, on a piano, to be honest once you've worked out what the notes are, you're much better off looking at a shape and black/white colouring rather than thinking about key signatures. So A and E minors are blacks up, whites down, and C and F minors are whites up, blacks down. D minor and G minor both plsy white-black up and white-black down.

There was some discussion about whether you "lower" the notes on the way down or not - if you're playing the scale up-down, rather than just writing it or perhaps playing down only, actually the idea of lowering the notes does help a lot, because you know that both of those notes have to be changed when you turn round, so whether or not you are thinking about the key-signature, you still "lower" them from what you played on the way up.

Thanks for that, I found that's very interesting and will definitely make use of it. I have only just started to notice a pattern whilst learning to play Gd 2 scales. The real problem I'm having is that I've only just sat the Gd 1 practical and now preparing for Gd3 theory possible for June. Unfortunately as you know Gd 3 introduce the idea of knowing both melodic and harmonic scales, so I'm having to learn about scales that I'm unable to play as yet ( I guess most students are in the same boat), which is proving to be somewhat problematic. Now I have a better understanding of how the scale structure process works should be able to sit down and make progress with playing them.

Many thanks though, I shall definitely bear what you have said in mind...

There will be times when it's useful to know how to construct them from the tonic major as well, in which case of course you flatten the third, also the sixth for the harmonic minor, and the sixth and seventh coming down for the melodic. (as has already been said: flatten=lower by a semitone, not necessarily add a flat)

I don't recall having had the necessity.
It's another way of looking at it and I dare say that for some people it would be the way that makes most sense to them.

You've never transposed a major melody into the minor?

I may have done on a small scale.
I think I'd just go from knowing the scale/key though.

No, not into the relative minor, into the tonic minor. Strictly speaking, it's not quite transposing. You can just make a sad verse in a song by going into the minor, or in fact the other way around, as in the first song in Schubert's Winterreise. Schubert did it all the time.

To go from C major into C minor by learning the scale is known as the hard way!

Not to me. The flat 3rd is obvious but apart from that I'd take the key signature for C minor as my guide and see what worked best with the 6th and 7th.

I would call it transforming rather than transposing.

Again, solfa makes transforming (whether into the tonic major/minor or into a mode) very easily accessible.

If you succeeded, then you've fully internalised the sound of minor keys, which should always be the ultimate aim! The codification into 'harmonic' and 'melodic' scales is a way of describing what happens, not an instruction manual.