Hi all, I realise this has been covered before but I wanted to run by you all an idea I have for a billing system to try to keep a regular income that would cover refunds etc, and I know as most of you teach children this wouldn't probably work quite in the same way, but......

I have 5 students (some weekly some fortnightly) on my books after just over 1 year of teaching, I only teach Adults - jazz Sax. I have always had terrible problems with students cancelling. Four cancelled at the last minute in one week just before Easter!! but all fine the week after that, then but two have cancelled this week again! some with genuine illness and others with ridiculous excuses. I only have one student who is brilliant and never lets me down. They come all year round - I don't work to term times.

I spoke to the MU about it and they sent out a batch of contracts but at the moment I don't want to go down that road as I'm worried it would seem way too formal.....so I have come up with this idea (with the help of reading previous threads) of billing at the beginning of every month for 4 weeks in advance worth of lessons, so if they hypothetically came every single week then over the course of the year they would be getting 4 lessons free - paying only for 48 lessons a year (and pro-rata for fortnightly students) and that would allow for any un-refunded cancellations for missed lessons. I feel it would be fair if they were to be going away on holiday then as long as they gave me plenty of notice, that month I would then bill them minus those weeks, so they would still have the 4 weeks safety net. I charge ?20 per hour.

If they chose not to come any more then I thought I'd ask for 2 weeks notice before the beginning of the next month. So basically I would not offer refunds, - and if I were to be ill I would probably try to re-schedule but if that wasn't convenient for them or me then the 4 free weeks should hopefully cover that as well?

many thanks for any opinions/advice etc,
Arty

I'm sorry, Arty, but this is UNACCEPTABLE. If you are running a business you MUST put proper Terms & Conditions in place. The MU contract is easily tweaked - mine states lessons cancelled within less than 24 hours notice will be charged for at the normal lesson rate and notice to cease lessons is 6 weeks.

Why worry about being "formal"? I have fantastic friendships with most of my adult pupes....but they all sign the contract....

This isn't your hobby - it is how you earn your living and at ?20 an hour you can not afford to be messed about.

Try it and stamp your authority on the matter.

Good luck.

Assertive-Bag x

hello

I have been teaching for over 25 years and now have a little contract that I use with new pupils - nothing too formal but it allows me to go through my terms and conditions with new students. I discuss with each pupil how many weeks they pay in advance. The minimum period is 2 lessons in advance and some choose to pay 10 weeks ahead. I very rarely have anyone cancel at the last minute. I request 48 hours notice or they forfeit that lesson. Obviously if it is an emergency I use my discretion as to whether to charge or not. Again if I know the pupil very, very rarely misses a lesson I will waive my charge if they don't give enough notice. Usually parents and adult pupils insist of paying even if I ask them not too!!

In my view it is vital to sort things out very clearly at the start of the "teaching relationship" I always meet every potential pupil before taking them on in order to make sure we can all work together. We go over their expectations and mine. I allow them to go away and consider whether I am the right teacher for them etc. I never turn anyone away because they might have problems learning but I have decided not to take some on because I sensed they did not appreciate that there was commitment on both sides.

I teach about 6 adults at the moment and it is true they are more likely to have problems getting to lessons as regularly as children. Work issues, parenting issues etc. However the important thing is they understand the commitment needed and that if I can't fill their space I have effectively lost income. Maybe you can have a different notice period for them but don't be intimidated. I would recommend you be as straightforward, open and clear as possible at the beginning. Don't shy away from a "contract" but maybe write your own. Good luck


As I posted I see Bagpuss has said pretty much the same as me!

Hi Bagpuss, thanks for your reply....yes I know I am such a wimp and find these things so difficult!

Does that 24 hours include if they are ill? and what do you do if they cancel a couple of days before - many of mine have done that! do you have to refund or only reschedule?

As I don't work to term times, do you think I should charge in advance per month for every week that they would normally come - unless they have hols booked/Christmas/Easter/bank hols etc falls on that day?

many thanks
Arty

Hi Margaret, thanks for your reply. I see that you ask for 48 hours notice - do you then offer a refund or reschedule?
Arty

I would be put off paying for 48 weeks in a year. I don't know anyone who works a 48 week year and that's basically two weeks off at Christmas and two weeks off at Easter. That's a lot of lessons!

Hi, no I wasn't intending to charge for 48 weeks at once, but rather 4 lessons each month, unless they have holidays booked/work commitments etc. I don't teach children, so don't work to term times. - so theoretically they get 4 free weeks (if they were to come for 52 weeks! - not that they would)

Most of my students come along (or at least book!) every week except christmas, easter, bank hols etc.

Hi artisticlicence,

The format that you described in your first post is quite similar to how I run things, except I invoice according to how many lessons are in each month as opposed to a flat monthly rate.

I invoice 2 weeks in advance of the first lesson of the month, they pay a week later for the following month in advance. I think having them pay AHEAD of the first lesson that they're paying for is important here, as people are less likely to do a no show on pay day because they've already paid for that lesson.

If people are going on holidays or want a week off for any reason then they need to tell me before the invoice date. If they don't I charge as normal and they have the option to fit in the extra lessons at another time (important part of that being EXTRA lessons...so in addition to regularly scheduled lessons).

If they're sick I'll offer to reschedule but if they can't or don't want to then there are no refunds or carry-overs into the next month.

If I'm sick I carry the payment for that lesson over into the next month.

Here's a link to my lesson policy. I HIGHLY recommend having people sign a policy/contract. It makes it very clear as to what you expect and leaves less room for disagreement.

http://amywilesmusic.wordpress.com/lesson-policy/

I've played around with different policies for about 5 years now, slowly fine tuning it to work out all of the loopholes. I've been using this policy for about a year now and it has worked fabulously.

Right, after much research I'm introducing a new system:

You pay either a monthly flat rate (40 lessons divided by 12) or per month (normally 2-5 lessons) and it's payable on the 1st of the month. A system exists to chase up late payments, and after three reminders have been sent, it goes to the ISM to deal with.

Each pupil is allowed three make-up lessons each year. If they need to miss or reschedule a lesson for whatever reason, then they use up one of their make-up lessons which we fit in at a mutually convenient time. After that, any missed are forfeited. So, if a pupil says they can't come at the usual time next week, can they come on a different day, then if I can fit it in, that's fine...but...they use up one of their make-up lessons. It means that people need to plan for holidays during term-times, school trips, parties etc. but it also means that if they're ill, they're not losing out. Very few of mine have ever needed to miss or reschedule more than three lessons over the course of a year, so this seems fair. This system removes the need to make judgements about whether people's excuses are reasonable or not. It also removes the need for determining what's a suitable notice period for missing lessons. I find it very difficult to judge whether missed lessons should be made up - this removes the need to make these judgements. I also think it's quite generous. It makes for the same system for everyone too.

For those who don't have a regular timeslot ('ad-hoc') they get two make-up lessons a year, but it's a bit easier for them as they're normally booking them one at a time so usually know what's already in the diary.

At the end of the day though, there will always be a few who try to take advantage, and I think you probably have to accept that as a fact of life.

Hi ymapazagain - that is very useful - I think that is pretty much the direction I'm going to go with it Many thanks

Hi Seer Green, thank you, all useful in helping me build up a picture of how others do it, many thanks

Hello, I am sorry you have been getting the run around, Arty, and I endorse completely the attitude of the other forumites who have responded. Now, whenever anyone starts, they get either one meeting (usual method if a child) or one lesson where there is no commitment. I give them a folder, complete with contracts, T&Cs, contact forms and so on. This seems to help provide a really professional atmosphere. I am friendly with all my students, as I prefer being informal and relaxed. I teach adults as well as children, but they all have the same contract. For me, I use the local school terms as a template, with each half term forming my whole term. Sometimes, if I am around I'll offer lessons during half term holidays, at a mutually convenient time, and I recommend 3 lessons over the summer holidays to prevent slide back. If I cancel, then I offer a credit for the next term, if they cancel, it completely depends on how flexible I can be, and how well behaved they are regarding attendance. I explain that provided it is a rare occurrence I'll try and rearrange, but if it is every other week, then that won't be possible. I tend to work on the principle though, that if I am flexible with them, then they are usually flexible with me.

Get firm, and stop losing money!! They will respect you more for it.

48 weeks still sounds like an awfully big commitment.
I charge for a 40 weeks a year and invoice quarterly with the option to pay monthly.
I try to rearrange in cases of illness but if I can't or we can't find a time to suit it's not a problem.
I've been doing this for two years now and I've had one who only had 38 lessons one year as parents work and she sometimes has to stay with grandma some distance away. I've had one who had 42 lessons so it balanced out. I now have a regular income and don't worry about having to ask for payment for missed lessons if someone cancels. The customers seem happy with it too.
When you factor in Christmas, Easter and holidays/illness on both sides 40 weeks gives enough slack for most eventualities. I've also come to realise that some short breaks are good to recharge batteries anyway.
I have a couple who can't commit to weekly and accept them on a pay as you go basis. Some of my advertising says that I can accommodate shift workers and for adults with irregular hours or who may have to work away sometimes I'm happy with this arrangement and the ones I've had so far have not taken advantage.

Yes my students are all either retired, self employed so can come along in the afternoon, and the one's that work 9-5 come in evening.

Yes I thought that - it's easy for them to phone and say they've got a sore thoat/headache etc if they don't fancy the lesson that day.

Several reasons I only teach Adults - I specialise in jazz/blues/pop/rock etc - Sax (although I do play classically too but only flute and piano) and as I advertise that I specialise, I don't get enquiries for children. I also know what I was like as a child - I didn't want to be there and often didn't practice! Also, even though I've brought up 2 children of my own and have grandchildren, I'm not very confident with other people's children as I feel it's such a responsibility. I started my grandson on the piano last summer but it was a bit of a disaster! I had no idea how to communicate ideas to him - he was only 4 though! I will try again when he gets a little older and hopefully get some confidence to start teaching children - I haven't ruled the idea out completely yet! Actually I have in the past been in touch with the Music Services who seemed to be very keen to get me to apply!
Arty



Thanks Jane, that's very useful




Hi sbhoa, I'm not asking them to commit for 48 weeks!! It's just that I can work for 48 weeks as I don't go on holiday in the summer and can work right through the year if I wanted/needed too. However in practice though I'd probably give myself a couple of weeks off say at Easter and Christmas (no point in me doing term times as it doesn't really apply - if I did teach children then I would). They can set the regularity ie weekly, fortnightly, monthly if that's what they want - I don't even mind ad hoc if that's what someone wants - I just want them to stop messing me about!!

Arty

Most people 'play by the rules' and if your rules are lax they will bend them, if the rules are firm, they won't. I don't find that people resent a firm payment / cancellation policy, they just accept that that's how you run your business.

Sorry, I read that you'd thought of billing for 48 weeks.
I now see that you would reduce the bill for holidays. Wouldn't this potentially mess with the steady income you were aiming at?

Not with migraines you don't! Fortunately(?), I usually get migraines on a Monday or Tuesday, so can let my teacher know in advance of my Thursday lesson. And double-fortunately, he's quite flexible, so if it turns out I'm back to being well again on Thursday, we can uncancel the lesson. But even with an ongoing migraine, I can't tell you how I'll feel at 5pm on Thursday until Thursday lunchtime at best. Sometimes a migraine is gone in 24 hours, sometimes I have it for 5+ days, and annoyingly at the start of it there is no indication of what sort it will be this time (I'm now imagining a polite chronic condition, that let's you know when and how long it will last each time )

Of course, this isn't going to affect every student you have - possibly not any of them - but if you do have a student with this type of condition, it can be helpful if you can express understanding of the short notice.
Note that by this I absolutely do not mean 'don't charge'!! Because if you have agreed up front that's the way it is, then that is the way it is - as a student, I know I have migraines which come along and floor me at short notice, and I know that when it happens some activities just have to stop until it's over, but that doesn't stop any agreements around those activities, i.e. paying for them
If I cancel at short notice I would expect to pay because I've booked the teacher's time. But it's nice that when this does happen, I can phone up and know that my teacher will at least have some sympathy and not just heave a sigh and think I'm mucking him about

Actually, if you are teaching someone with this sort of condition, then you can speak to them about what you'd prefer - so say I got a migraine on a Monday, should I cancel ASAP and then uncancel if I get well? Or should I wait until Thursday morning and make the decision based on how I feel then? That's where I, as the student, would have to be guided by what the teacher would prefer.

Not just migraine.
If you happen to be ill on your lesson day I would imagine that most of the time it's without 24 hours warning.
Also unless it's something I know for sure will last a certain number of days I'd hang on as long as possible in the hopes of not having to miss a lesson.
Luckily my teachers know how reluctant I am to miss lessons so if I do call and say I'm ill they know that I really am too ill to get there. It usually means I'm too ill to drive safely.

I think that sickness rules for notification of absence could be rather different for adults.

Children are different - they may "last out" the day at school and then arrive home at 3.30 with pink cheeks and a raging temperature. I've had that happen to mine on the day of the violin lesson! So I find a bit of leeway with children may be called for.

However, with adults, you tend to get a bit more warning. The sore throat will have a few symptoms building up over a few days for example. I'm sure someone will pop up with ailments that give no notice (maybe migraines), but I think a 24 hour notice period is perhaps more easily enforced with adults, and particularly if you emphasise it at the beginning.

I like the last sentence of ymapazagain's policy pointing out that this is her job, and not a hobby - sometimes this is necessary with some pupils.


Ooops, just realised that others have posted while I was thinking about how to compose this post. I probably haven't done a very good job anyway - the muse is not with me this morning.

No - bill them for each month, but as 48 weeks divided by 4, and pro-rata for fortnightly or monthly etc students was my original idea. and of course they would not be committed to a whole year!

Yes this would give me a steady income - but then when you're self employed there really is no such thing is there! Also I'm going off this idea because should people only come for a few months and give up you've not really earned your hourly rate from them - that would only happen if they came for the whole year less 4 weeks (if that makes sense!)

And I'm thinking maybe I would feel more comfortable that people are only paying for what they have booked?



Oh Maizie, I do sympathise - i also get migraines and have other chronic health conditions that prevent me from holding down a proper job since I had a stroke 10 years ago. During my recovery I threw myself into my music and took up jazz - gave me a reason to live . So I have "fallen" into teaching as a way of being self employed as it is the only way I can attempt to do any sort of employment - so I do understand very much about being flexible - luckily I haven't ever had to cancel a lesson due to a migraine - mine start in the early hours of the morning several days a week whenever they choose, luckily on the whole they have gone by lunchtime/early afternoon.I'm usually on the tail end of them in the afternoon and usually feel pretty wiped out but can still teach. That's why it makes me cross when they cancel if they have a "bit of a sore throat" "the dog's ill" yada yada

Hubby said to me this morning "if you keep getting stressed about this you'll burst another blood vessel
Arty

If that's what you prefer, why don't you think about a retainer?

Decide about what notice of cancellation you require (it doesn't matter if it's 24hrs, 48hrs or a week - you need to have the feeling it's practicable for you), and then charge them one lesson extra.
You keep this as a deposit. It will then either pay for the last lesson when they decide to give up, or you can retain it in case they get funny about paying you when they cancelled with not enough notice. The 'good eggs' will not argue with this and pay you for lessons cancelled without enough notice anyway, and the bad ones - well, you at least didn't lose your income before you give them the boot

You can always use discretion where you find it appropriate, but I'm afraid that you won't be able to pay for your living on sympathy alone. I am a very sympathetic person, and I really understand all the individual reasons given why someone might have to cancel short notice (well, no, some are just ridiculous, but that's not the ones we're talking about here )
Now student, put yourself in my shoes if I never take payment from ANY of my students when they had to cancel short notice. You might think it is justified that you are being let off, but you are not my only student, and not the only one who cancels. Fact is: I would be sleeping under the bridge soon and not be able to offer you ANY service.

I'm afraid there is no way to have a "surefire" policy. You need to grow a backbone and enforce the policy you come up with, whatever it may be. It's all good and well to have written T & Cs - if you don't enforce them because you're afraid students will respect you less for them (and trust me, most actually don't, they are fine with it), you might as well have none at all.

I said this before - it is YOU who actually sets the tone. If you are too soft, of course they will take advantage. Not because they are horrible people, but because everyone likes to save money if it is offered to them on a silver plate

Thanks Dugazon,

That's more or less what I think I'm going to do except I think on a month in advance - and also make my termination of lessons 1 month in advance also, so that it will fit in nicely with the month in advance payment.

I know I'm a soft touch , I'm not sure if I'm cut out for the business side of this - I love teaching though.

In the first instance I'm going to hand out a sheet of terms and conditions and hopefully that will do the trick, if it doesn't - I am drawing up a contract to have at the ready just in case

Arty

IMO if you are paying for a lesson you're not going to be able to attend it's up to you not the teacher when you make the decision. I wouldn't (as a teacher) expect the luxury of lots of notice, plus a fee which is essentially in lieu of notice - although of course it is useful to know in advance if someone definitely can't make it.

On the other hand, if the teacher waives the fee then it's only fair to be as considerate as possible.

I agree, for another reason (Maizie, I don't mean you know, or anyone else who suffers from a chronic condition):

I occasionally had students who tried to dodge payment by leaving the decision up to me. My T&Cs very clearly state that I don't make exceptions for (minor) illness, for the simple reason that it has been used as a loophole in the past (you will get the ones who, once they noticed you waive fees for illness, are ALWAYS ill if they can't be bothered). Which means that yes, even the ones who have a cold or a headache still need to pay, as sorry as I feel for them individually.
However, occasionally one clever person phones, says they are really loaded with the cold and a sore throat, but of course they could come round and spread their germs - would I prefer however if they stayed home? Yes, I would, both for liability reasons and my own health. It puts the teacher in a very awkward position if it is then expected that because teacher said student should stay home, they of course shouldn't pay. Again, not saying all students are that way, but some will try to dodge payment whenever they can.

So if the T&Cs say "no exceptions", that's what they mean. I don't provide loopholes for the very reason that they will be used. The STUDENT decides if they feel well enough for their lesson, this includes the risk of cancelling when they would have possibly been fine. And yes, it in turn also includes a slight risk for me if people think they want to cough their germs all over me (thankfully, most decide to stay home ), but that's life.
If I want to use discretion, I'll use it (and I do in severe cases), but I'd prefer if the student didn't try to force it on me.

Part of the problem is that we are all decent people, and we would like to think that basic human nature is kind and considerate, caring, and reliable. But the reality is that there a lot of really horrible people out there, with neither consideration for others nor empathy. You only have to look at the comments on YouTube to see that.

In everyday life some of these monsters manage to pass themselves off as normal people, most of the time. It is depressing, but it does go some way to explain why we have had constant horrific war on the planet for over a century.

And some of these people come to us for music lessons!

The ideal is to get to a position where you have a superb reputation, and a waiting list. Then you will have no need to put up with non-payers, late cancellers, rude students, or any other kind of problem pupil. They should see their lessons with you as a great privilege, something not be risked through unacceptable behaviour.

That's just so sneaky...I would never have thought of that (and no, you haven't just given me an idea!)

I think a lot of difficulties (in life in general, not just music lessons!) come from really not understanding the other person's position or point of view. For example, my husband is self-employed - I know what that means for income reliability. That's one of the reasons that I would never expect to not pay for a missed lesson, because I have booked for your time and I pay for it whether I 'use' that time or not. People who don't have that knowledge may well need it explained to them - yes, it seems self evident and common sense, but the thing about common sense is that it isn't all that common
Probably part of the reason I worry about the notice I give when cancelling is that my teacher doesn't charge me for missed lessons - though I know that other students don't have this luxury, so evidently I haven't messed him around that badly yet (I would say I miss at most one a term from illness).

I agree with VH2 - we're nice and we like to assume niceness in others. And the problem is the not-nice ones take advantage...and then you have to stop being nice to them!

If only that were even on the horizon I live in a reasonably small town, I only have one student from this town, the rest are from a fair distance away. I specialise in jazz/etc too - am only the one in this town who does - so have an advantage there.

That's what I meant about paying for 48 weeks a year.....
I cover it by billing quarterly but with the option to pay monthly. Each quarter can be self contained and commitment is for 10 lessons in 3 months.

As a parent, I agree you need to be clear and firm about expectations. Of course you need to have a secure living, like the rest of us, and if your terms and conditions make this explicit, so much the better. I'm lucky enough to have a monthly wage even if I'm ill and would never grudge a penny of music teaching for my children if they missed a lesson. But if you state your terms and conditions, it's no longer a matter of goodwill. My daughter's cello teacher is v flexible but the terms and conditions are clear and we have never had any problem sorting out the payback from missed lessons on either side. Music may be a luxury for some of your adult students, but eating is not a luxury for you, even if they cancel for a cold or no practice.

It's a bit girly, and very English to be embarrassed by a financial contract, but time to get over it if you are over the age of 18...
Good luck
J

The only way I would sign up to a months retainer would be if I'd had at east twelve weeks with the teacher to ascertain if they were any good or gelled with me or my kids. I certainly wouldn't do it before or even after the first lesson. Alarm bells would also ring for me if a months retainer was requested. I'd be wondering why the teacher thought this was necessary - were they losing lots of clients, and why?

Charging in advance is the best way and if the client hasn't paid after the first lesson then all lessons should cease, unless the client has always been very good at paying and there are some mitigating circumstances that the teacher is happy to accept.

Oh great..........that's blown my new newly devised month in advance payment plan out of the water then Do you think a month is too much then? The problem is people make excuses like "the dog is ill" I have a sore throat starting" "oh I forgot to come" when they just don't feel like it? and I've told my bands that I can't make (insert day of the week) for rehearsal because I have a regular student that night who ends up coming once a month instead of once a week?

No. I don't think a month in advance is too much. I charge half termly in advance. I moved to this about 2 years ago and I have seen a decline in the number of "unable to make it" short notice cancellations. Pupils who have remained with me have developed a better, more disciplined attitude and I lost one or two who, to be quite honest, were only here because mum insisted.

However, I don't have a written t&c type contract - I've acquired one or two pupils who were frightened off other teachers who produced these contracts. But with every new pupil I make it very clear, and have a sheet of 'advice for pupils and parents', that short notice cancellations are not acceptable and a charge may be made. Actually, I already have the cash, and by the end of half term people have often forgotten about the odd missed lesson.

If I was introducing a new concept - as you are - I would set out my reasons in a letter - pointing out that I run a business, however small, and citing economic factors, and maybe (depends how you feel) pointing out that regular cancellations are detrimental to students' progress, ..... and so on. Only you know really what to say to your pupils.

I think you need to firm up your resolve, and operate a charm offensive.

Thanks Susie, thank you that's very useful I'm such a wimp! (apart from in my music and teaching it!) - perhaps when new pupils attend (all mine are adults) I could hand them a information sheet rather than heading it "T&Cs", existing pupils I could just hand one over with newsletter stating I am introducing a new system?
Arty

Don't see why! If that system suits you then go with it. I have a monthly flat-rate system paid up front on the first of the month or as soon as possible thereafter. It has worked really well for me this year. Last year people paid for a block of 5 lessons in advance but they just cancelled when they felt like it and it was no good at all. Now they know they are paying for 38 lessons a year paid for in 10 monthly instalments and that if they are not able to attend the lesson then they won't receive a refund. I do have some slack in the timetable and I am sometimes able to rearrange but the terms and conditions state that although I will try to reschedule it can not be guaranteed that a lesson slot will be available. It has cut down absenteeism immensely.
That said, I don't expect people to sign up for this system straight away. They pay each lesson for the first 2 months and after that time if they wish to continue then they sign up to the monthly system which I explain in their very first lesson even though they have 2 months trial.

I still say after over 10 years doing this that I've never come across a profession that is as generous as the one we're in. Look at swimming lessons, dance classes, gym memberships etc. If you don't go, there's no refund and sessions aren't likely to be rescheduled. I wish I could pinpoint what it was which makes us operate like we do!

To be honest, I think it's a mix of a lot of things.

*swingswetfish*

I guess a lot of people who operate as sole traders, especially creatives, cannot sufficiently separate business from being a private person: "As an individual, I am so nice and empathetic, so I have to behave like that whilst running a business, which includes letting people walk all over me and bearing it with a grin. Also, aren't creatives bad at doing business? Why should I improve my business skills, I'd much rather be a musician." I am being a bit sarcastic here, but I think you get the drift.
Running a business doesn't and shouldn't exclude being nice and empathetic, but first of all it is, you guessed it, a business (why is it so hard for many creatives to think of themselves as business people? It is NOT an insult!). We make our living with it. If we want to be charitable, we should be running a charity. This is something I am serious about btw - if you think you have problems with the business side of being a musician/teacher, do one of two things: Delegate (have someone else doing your admin), or don't do it as a job - there are a lot of things you can do on a voluntary basis if you think your personality is not cut out for this. There's a third option of course: Toughening up, learning business skills, maybe even doing a few courses as part of your professional development.

Another problem that is part of this attitude is the desperation to be liked, and not being able to stand your ground because of it - confrontation-avoidance-syndrome as I call it. The very thought you might lose students because you are doing what every other business does is schizophrenic (and I am not mean here, I used to be like that myself when I started out, and the toughening up process took a while). And, dare I say it, financial and emotional leeches smell desperation a mile off, that's what they feed on. You will attract more people like that the more desperate you get. Sad fact.

It is understandable that in tough economic times, we all cannot afford to lose students - or can we? Why cling on to someone who clearly doesn't value what you do? Even when I didn't have a waiting list, I gave people with a bad payment morale or attitude problems the boot. I couldn't always afford it and asked myself every time if I did the right thing, but in the long run, it was the best thing I could have done: You weed out the clientele that stresses you out and make space for the good, committed ones (which coincidentally have no issues paying you).

I think we should get more sense of self-worth - this includes being paid for your services, time and expertise. Why apologise?

*slappingwetfishintofacesessionover*

Well said Dugazon.

I think that it also stems from a historical perspective where there was a tendency for the little old lady round the corner to give piano lessons to supplement her pension - for 'pin money' if you like. Some of us will have grown up with this, and that may affect our perceptions as teachers. It may also affect some parents' perceptions as well.

The other angle which is often cited is that parents pay for a term's ballet lessons or gym club or whatever up front and no refunds are given for missed lessons. One could argue - why not? But when my children were little, I met a mother who said quite firmly that her children were not learning musical instruments because lessons were too expensive, and you could get better value from sports activities (where presumably the cost is spread among an army of children). [She was not poor, and she was rather forceful in her views which not every one agreed with.] So I suppose that parents may think that they've only lost a few pounds on a gym lesson for example, whereas instrumental lessons are rather more expensive.

I think it comes down to operating with a more business-like mindset, while being perfectly reasonable in what we do (ie avoiding things like raising prices too much during a recession etc).

A months retainer is not the same as paying in advance though. I happily pay for a term in advance but if I was asked to pay a terms retainer or a months retainer as well then lessons would probably cease

Absolutely!



It is definitely a creative thing - I'm also an artist (painter) - self-employed for quite a few years now - reasonably successful for the first few years (until the recession hit) I've completed art business courses, and yet it was still a long while before I got the courage to charge a decent amount for commissions, and produce a contract which I have never had anyone batt an eyelid at! They all sign them without question perfectly happily! unfortunately I am not doing very well with my art in the current economic climate and my health problems mean I cannot hold down a "proper" job - so I have to stand firm and make this work!

Strange how I am finding this just as difficult when I should be used to it - I think because I will be seeing these people week in week out whereas with the art I generally only come in contact with them once or twice and often it's all done from photographs via email and post!! I suppose for that reason it is important to stand firm and then end up with committed and pleasant clients.

Thank you all for your input, it has been immensely helpful,
Arty

For my lessons (I'm a student, not a teacher), I recieve a bill for ten lessons, with the dates and the time of those ten lessons printed on it. It also states the terms (most important of which is that lessons can only be changed with advance agreement with the teacher). I pay for the lessons before that session of ten lessons begins.

You could try something similar? Maybe for six lessons, if you think ten sounds too much?
The dates which are printed are the dates that lessons take place, and take into account any holidays (so it could span twelve weeks, if there were two weeks for Christmas or whatever during that time).

In the time I've been taking lessons (about a year and a half), if I miss a lesson for any reason - I just miss it, it's not rescheduled and it is already paid for. I very rarely miss a lesson. Sometimes it's unavoidable of course, I'll miss two lessons in May because I'll be away on holidays - but I will pay for them. I don't have a problem with it; I have asked the teacher to keep that time slot free for me each week, and its highly unlikely that he would have someone who could just come for two weeks at that time if I cant come, so he would lose out otherwise.

Hi yes I think I'll probably go with billing monthly and hand out a sheet of info (T&Cs)

I didn't even know there was a difference - now I've looked up what a retainer is, no I wouldn't consider it - just payment in advance

A retainer/deposit AND advance payment don't make sense together - it is 'either' 'or'. I also think that a retainer/deposit is only applicable where "pay as you go" (one lesson at a time) is the preferred payment option, and therefore shouldn't be more than a lesson's worth in my opinion. This is to save you from people who miss an ad hoc lesson and then either argue about whether it has to be paid for, or do a runner without ever contacting you again.

I don't wish to be rude but from your profile you are a grade 6 player who has attended jazz workshops and a teaching course. You charge below the MU rate for tuition and complain about students cancelling. My husband has pupils who are your standard having done what you have done and he charges the going rate. He is qualified teacher International recording artist leading Jazz Saxophonist and has several students heading to the Rsm's. The average age of his gr6 players are 12 and they play in training Jazz orchestras not the actual senior ones. Why don't you use the cancelled time to practice and gain more experience, become a more advanced player. The problem with many adult pupils are they do it for a hobby, myself included. I am gr5 sax gr8 clarinet, qualified teacher but not music. Many can't make lessons due to work commitments changing so my husband treats this as bonus practice time. I'm sorry if I sound a little harsh, I don't mean to I genuinely wish you well but think you should be realistic in terms of what you can expect or demand.

Minimum, I don't quite see your point. Just because your husband teaches people of the OP's level doesn't mean anything in the context of this post. Many good teachers will still be having lessons themselves.

We have had many discussions on this forum about the minimum qualification needed to teach. And we usually conclude that qualifications mean nothing. They only tell what the last exam taken was, not the actual ability, and certainly not the quality of teaching.

I think someone working towards G8 sounds fine to me and only knowing someone personally can you judge if they're good enough or not.

As for the going rate, I think everyone should charge the going rate at least, but ?20 ph is not unreasonably low.

My eyes have gone funny!

My apologies, I have experienced technical problems here. Hope it is rectified now.

I have always paid our five instrumental teachers "pay as you go", and they
have never given out terms and conditions. We rarely miss lessons, sometimes they have to be rescheduled for a different time. One of the teachers asks for 24 hours notice of cancellation, and I have offered to pay missed lessons before now, but the teacher has never taken me up on that. I don't think I'd be at all happy paying in advance or paying a retainer, and sometimes the teachers miss lessons because they have gigs.

All my pupils pay in advance. Nobody seems to have a problem with it. Half a term, so six invoices a year.

I've never paid each lesson, although some of the teachers have siad it didn't matter if we did a block or individual lessons. I would find it more of a hassle to write a cheque each week and I prefer not to use cash as it is less obvious who has paid what.