Hey guys,

I have had a reasonable hiatus from playing piano, and I am looking to self-prepare for my ATCL. I had planned to do this around a year ago, however various things come up etc. So, despite learning half a program a year ago, I want to start afresh with new pieces. My question is, is this program balanced enough?

Chopin- Ballade No. 3 in A flat major
Beethoven- Sonata Op 78. in F sharp major (not in ATCL syllabus, but one of my favourite of Beethoven's Sonatas despite its length. It was listed under additional approved syllabus at one point for LTCL however.)
Ravel- Sonatine
Schubert-Op. 90, No. 3, Impromptu in Gb

Thanks for your responses, it's hard to start preparing without a teacher, especially when you are unsure of just how much diversity you need in a program! (If you can't tell, I am trying to avoid the Baroque period )

Looks rather long to me, have to checked timings ? And Id like to see a Baroque item in there, and not include both Chopin and Schubert.

Well done on getting back in shape after a while. There are lots of returners on here (myself included). I would thoroughly recommend finding a teacher - even if only for a few ad hoc lessons. It's always useful to get guidance and feedback. Is there a university or music college near you where you could find a teacher?

I'm no expert - just looking into diplomas myself - but a quick search shows that all the pieces you've chosen were composed within a 100 year span (1809-1906). If you absolutely can't bring yourself to find some baroque, how about an earlier classical work and/or a later 20th century piece or some neo-baroque?

And are you sure you want to avoid baroque? Really? Truly? I was away from it for 15 years(!) and in that time stuck to my comfort zone of romantic/impressionist music. It took a little while to get back to baroque - probably because I couldn't sight-read it at the same level and I like to be able to at least have a go at things straight away - but it was well worth the effort and now I'm loving it.

Anyway, good luck. Someone who knows more will help soon!

The timing looks fine to me, as does the balance You don't need baroque - the earliest piece on my DipABRSM programme was Schubert D. 664. Also, the nice thing about Trinity is that if they don't like the programme, they'll simply fail to approve it, so you don't need to be unsure about whether or not the programme is acceptable.

Fsharpminor, I have checked the timings according to some recordings I have, and it weighs in at 35.5 minutes. (A little on the long side perhaps) However, I think the Beethoven has repeats which may be omitted if necessary. How strict are they exactly, for example, if my program went for 40 minutes?

Thanks Pianomeg and ansatz496, however, seeing as your opinions are divided, I am just about as unsure as when I started . Although as ansatz mentioned that a simple approval of my program is sufficient to gurantee no loss of marks (is that correct?), perhaps I'll keep it the same. I do love all the pieces I have chosen. Any other thoughts guys?

40 minutes may be a bit long, but looking at your programme that shouldn't be a problem, especially if you omit the repeats. I should say that I've never actually used Trinity, so it would be good if someone else could confirm what I said, but it was my understanding that approval precludes worrying about programme choice. I did say I thought the balance was fine, but reading PianoMeg's response I'm beginning to think maybe a later 20th century piece would be a good idea - as I said, I didn't include baroque or even early classical, but I did have a short Bartok piece composed in 1946 that was nice and percussive and an effective contrast to everything else. Maybe add something short by Prokofiev (the Visions Fugitives might be good, or something from Romeo and Juliet), Bartok, etc.? If you leave out the repeats in the Beethoven I think you might be able to add a few minutes of music without going over the time limit.

I was under the impression that programs had to be 32-38 mins for the ATCL, so surely 35 mins is the perfect length? Slap bang between the two end of the spectrum?

My understanding with Trinity is that you only have to get approval for "own choice" pieces not on their syllabus repertoire list. I'm looking at doing ATCL and building the programme at the moment.

Thanks guys! So from the sounds of it, my programme will probably still get marked on it's balance separate to approval? Perhaps I can change it. I am set on these three:

Beethoven- Sonata Op 78. in F sharp major
Ravel- Sonatine
Schubert-Op. 90, No. 3, Impromptu in Gb

I can't decide on the 4th then, in order to keep the program balanced.

Would playing Liszt's transcription of Schumann's Liebeslied (or Widmung) and Kapustin's Sunrise Op. 26 instead of the Chopin Ballade create a diverse enough program? (Both together approximately total the length of the Ballade)

Link to Sunrise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Uru5TWiM0
I love how this song imitates the sounds of a Jazz Band, it's fantastic!

Any ideas to help me finish balancing my program would be appreciated, so I can get cracking (I just have to have everything planned before I start, personality flaw )

Id still be inclined to pop in Bach P & F or a Scarlatti Sonata to start, and finish with the Ravel.

Yes it will.
If your pieces are all selected from the lists, then you don't need to get approval.
If you have own choice repertoire then you do need to get approval, but the syllabus notes:

Anywhere between the two is fine - my ATCL was 32 and a half minutes. They are however strict on falling short or going over - you will lose marks for it. The examiner will have a stopwatch. I know, I've seen it. And it was a large one...

I think if you include the Kapustin, you have nothing to worry about balance-wise, but the timings may come a bit short? I'm not 100% sure, but my timing estimates would be 10 min. for Beethoven (with repeats), 11 for Ravel, 6.5 for Schubert, and 3.5 for Kapustin, together coming to 31 min... I think it's safest to plan a programme around 35 min., so that if it ends up being a bit longer or shorter there won't be any problems.

EDIT: Never mind, I misunderstood - I see now that you're planning to add both the Schumann/Liszt Widmung and the Kapustin. I'm not sure I would want both the impromptu and Widmung on the same programme because both are romantic (I'm not talking about the periods in which they were composed, but their moods) and songful in nature. The Chopin ballade sort of had this problem, but to me there's more contrast in the ballade... but others may disagree.

Thanks guys! I'm getting a much better idea of what is expected now. Should of done that reading myself though

Yeah ansatz, I see what you are saying. Both the Schubert and Liszt are very lyrical pieces, and probably too similar. Perhaps I could replace it with a shorter Liszt/Chopin etude type piece? Any ideas? I have always enjoyed La Chasse (Paganini Etude No 5 by Liszt), or perhaps Valse Oubli?e? For Chopin maybe his Op. 42 Valse or an easier etude? Or are these still too similar? Any other ideas for any 3-4.5 minute pieces I could add in? (preferably by one of these two composers )

Was it in your view as well barry so you were able to take pauses and know how much time you have left?

I think La Chasse or Chopin op. 42 would be effective (I'm not familiar with the Valse you mention), or for Chopin etudes you could maybe pick one or two contrasting from op. 10 nos. 3, 5, 6, 9 and op. 25 nos. 1, 2, 7, 9 (these are considered the easiest according to my limited knowledge, but I haven't played any so my opinion isn't worth much ). You could also consider a selection of Chopin preludes (op. 28) - there cover a wide range of difficulty, but I think there are some that might be appropriate, and they aren't played as often as the op. 42 waltz or the etudes. There are probably mazurkas that would work, but I'm not familiar enough with them to give specific suggestions.

It was far enough away for me not to be able to see the display...

It would be much better if you add some Baroque pieces
Bach's Toccata is nice and simple
As I think that your programme tends to classical and romantic period.

But good job on dealing the style, you have both slow paces and fast paces.
Good job on the Chopin pieces, this can show off your pianist techniques a little

Your programme can consist of pieces from one period music and still be approved as long as there is a balance in moods and styles. I revised my original choice for my LTCL Piano programme recently to pieces written in the 20th Century and this was approved. The pieces are all written within a 45 year period but enough variety to keep the Trinity approval person happy!

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Anywhere between the two is fine - my ATCL was 32 and a half minutes. They are however strict on falling short or going over - you will lose marks for it. The examiner will have a stopwatch. I know, I've seen it. And it was a large one...
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Is it the overall timing that is checked for accuracy or are they also fussy about timing of each piece on the programme? Sometimes, I tend to play a little faster under stress .From my own record of timings that I've kept for each piece , I've seen that there is a deviation of about 30 seconds or more on the longer pieces that run for over 9 minutes. Its hard to get accurate to a few seconds as it really depends on my mood at that time.

While overall I know that I will not fall short or exceed, I can't say the same of each piece ...