Hi,

I'm an adult beginner on the violin .. no previous musical experience and still at a wide-eyed child-like stage of wonder at the door I've opened. 2 months since I started.

I'm got my head around the violin shaped object enough to know that there's no point in me getting anything better than a Stentor conservatoire until I know enough about where I'm heading and can play enough to be able to choose a proper grown up violin (it's a bit grim compared to my teachers.. but then that one is worth a lot of money). I've got obligatos on it at the moment which seem nicer than the dominants it started with.

I've also got 3 bows now .. two very basic (but different) Stentor wooden objects and one basic P&H fibre glass thing.

Comparing these three it seems that the bow choice makes a huge difference even at my stage (presumably even more so than the violin) and so I was thinking that a significant bow upgrade may help more than hinder.

I've been looking at Arcus, Coda and Jon Paul bows (ie relatively good carbon fibre ones) and don't have an issue with the price, so my plan was to try a few and see which I prefer. Ultimately I'll want a grown up wooden stick to go with a proper violin.... but I'll need a vastly greater level of skills&maturity to get value from that (or even know what to choose!). A carbon fibre strikes me as a good bet as I can always keep it as a second bow in the future.


I have one question which is pretty fundamental to my decision though ... might a good spec carbon fibre bow (eg CODA GX diamond) make life more difficult for me (as a beginner) than a lower cost bow ... or do the higher end carbon fibre bows simply increase playability and ease learning ?

Obviously I could buy a glasser or equivalent as an interim step but if there is no downside (apart from cash) in buying an expensive carbon fibre one then there seems little point in taking a half step.

Any feedback would be great .. thanks
Keith

As a returner to the violin two years ago, one thing I noticed is that adult starters/ returners start eyeing up everyone else's gear as something better or that could potentially make you play better. I suppose if you start piano, you are quite satisfied with the one you have as you can't really change anything except the whole thing or maybe get a new stool! With stringed instruments you can change everything down to the way it is set up to all the little parts. I have gone through the stage of looking at everyone else's chin rest, shoulder rest, strings, bow, tailpiece etc etc and rosin .....and cases ......
It sounds to me like you have everything you need! A Stentor Conservertoire is quite a fancy violin to begin with, certainly not basic quality like some. The bows you have already are probably good enough (get your teacher to check them out) ....I think the bow only makes a difference when used by someone who really is skilled with using a violin bow. I don't think a different bow will make you more skilled at bowing, you just have to learn how to do this! then, when you have, you will have more idea about what you want from a bow.
My advice would be stick with what you have for a year, concentrate on technique and producing a good tone and staying in tune, and buy a bow in a year's time when you will have a better idea of what to look for!

Hi Keith, and welcome to the forums! Without wanting to dampen your enthusiasm, I would recommend holding on a little longer before going bow shopping, for the simple reason that a few more months/years of learning might totally change your opinion of a bow. I think you hit the nail on the head here:

You are absolutely right that the bow makes a big difference, and it's great that you can appreciate this so early in your violin-playing career. And if the bows you already have are truly horrible then of course you'll get on better with an upgrade. If money is no object, then heck, just enjoy yourself and buy one. Just be prepared to change your mind about it in the future.

I can't think of any reason why a carbon fibre bow would make life any more difficult for you (or indeed any easier). They are just different. Some people love them, while others can't see what the fuss is about. The one advantage they definitely do have is that they are more robust.

I agree totally with viola mad ..if it is fun to go bowhunting (and it is!!) just go and buy one. You can usually try them out at violin shops. I changed my cheap ?20 bow for a Coda Diamond NX and have been happy with it, although have since realised I can play with my cheaper one just as well now I have learned some technique.
I hope you didn't think I was a dampener of enthusiasm and I think it is great that you are so enthusiastic and asking questions so soon after starting to learn....as long as you realise that a different bow may make little difference to your learning basic bowing skills.

Hi Keith,

I too am an adult learner. For the first year I played using a bow that was ~?15 from the local music shop (not a violin specialist shop). Then a forum member kindly loaned me a carbon fibre bow. That was a vast improvement on the stick I'd been using, but although light overall the balance point on it made it feel heavy when I was playing, though of course it took some time for my bowing to develop enough to notice that (and only then after comparing it with my teacher's Hill bow). I now have a CF bow that cost around ?100, but balance and power wise it's comparable to a ?500 wooden bow. A friend has a slightly more expensive CF bow and in all honesty they might as well use a tree branch - it's soooooo heavy feeling - the balance is way off. As with wooden bows price and name aren't always a promise of playability.

I'd say (from my experience) that after only two months, bowing technique is probably dictated by the relative stiffness/flexibility of arm/wrist/fingers rather than the bow quality. So buying even the best bow in the world would only make bowing a little easier, or sound a little better, ie there would probably be little difference in what you hear and feel. Having said that if your existing bows are awful then of course you could benefit from an upgrade. So I would advise same as others - wait a little while, unless your teacher says that your bows are completely dire.

http://www.thestringzone.co.uk/col-legno-c...ibre-violin-bow

I work in a violin shop and we have a huge stock of these, when i need to play something i just grab one as theyre really great all rounders for the money and i can do everything i need with them
I have one as my spare bow

I have an Arcus bow - to me, they are absolutely fantastic, especially the S series which made my violin produce the most beautiful sound. The disadvantages are they are expensive, take a bit of getting used to and do not suit everyone because they are a lot lighter than most bows. However, I love them and if I could afford one, would definitely get one of their S series bows.

Codas are also very nice CF bows - I tried the SX series and found them to be really good bows but there is a noticeable difference between the nickel and silver mounted bows. Col Legno which has been previously mentioned is a good, affordable CF bow but on the light side. Glasser CF bows are a bit heavier and compare more in weight with wooden bows and I found them to be a very good, affordable upgrade from beginner sticks and introduction to CF bows.

Have you asked your teacher what they would recommend? I only ask because when my teacher spotted I was having trouble with my bow and I mentioned about upgrading, I got treated to trying out their extensive bow collection to see what type of bow suited my ability which was a great opportunity and led to the Arcus.

viledin - I couldn't agree more.

As a retailer I find we have two extremes: at one extreme is the adult beginner who has been playing for a couple of months and is convinced that spending a lot of money will solve the problems she perceives (hint - it won't!) - such people spend more and more and more, upgrading every year or two and ending up playing a violin worth several thousand when in fact they are still at the stage where all they really need could be bought for a couple of hundred (mind you it's good for retailers, at least it is until a few years down the line when the player finally gives up and begs us to buy it all back). Some parents are like this for young children too. Also we often find adults convinced that they will make rapid progress because they already play another instrument (especially if the other instrument is a guitar) and they want to spend a lot now because they don't want to upgrade in a couple of years. Often these people cannot be convinced that 1. the drop-out rate for adults is huge and that 2. playing a bowed stringed instrument well takes a long time.

At the other extreme is the player (in fact, almost always the parent of a player) who actually needs to spend quite a lot of money (and usually could easily afford to do so) but thinks it is just possible that the several thousand she has been advised to spend might just be worked down to ?500 or so. We send out the instrument but we know full well it will be coming straight back ...

Fortunately there are quite a lot of people in the middle who are actually willing to spend what they need to spend but also to take advice.

Liz

I foolishly thought my advanced guitar skills would make taking up the violin easy. Noooooooo........my progress is twice as slow as it was on classical guitar! (well worth the effort though!)
Too poor to upgrade my wooden bow which was valued at ?250 by cardiff violins last year, instead I've done hours and hours and hours of work on bowing and have solved the problems I was blaming the bow for. Now I don't feel I need to upgrade it at all. However if money was no object, I would buy a fancy new bow for the fun of it, no question!

WOOHOO Cardiff Violins! good choice

Might pop in there on Saturday.

I won't be there, but some equally as awesome people will be

(kidding - though they are great!)

Thanks all for the feedback. Not what I expected and particularly useful for that reason.
My summary is :
1. If I want to buy a fancy bow and would enjoy the process then sure, no reason not to, have fun!
2. Realistically, unless there is an actual defect with my bow(s), a bow upgrade isn't really going to help me progress any more quickly than a perfectly acceptable student bow at my stage.

Next lesson is Weds this week (may even move on from fiddle time joggers to runners!) so I'll ask if the p&h (my fave of the three basic bows) is adequately functional and if so then it's just a matter of practice (I've found that I don't get better unless I practice !!)

Thanks again
Take care
Keith

Being an adult beginner I've fallen into this temptation before too, thinking I would get better if I buy a better instrument. And then, I asked my teacher to play my violin.

Since that day, I have decided that I will only change when my violin sounds just like how my teacher sounds like when she was playing on it!

Just by way of clarification (not that it's important really) I wasn't thinking that a better violin or bow would make me play better ... my concern was that getting a more advanced violin or bow might actually make me play worse because it/they might be harder to use for a beginner.

I could imagine that a better violin, strings and bow (and rosin) would sound better tonally than a really low quality entry level violin (which is why I'd been thinking about it) .. but not because it was making me a better player .. just because the inherent tone & resonance was nicer.

Anyways .. my stentor conservatoire with obligatos and a brazilwood stick (or fibreglass p&h bow) certainly isn't holding me back!

thanks again for the feedback though

take care
Keith

i do have a bow for sale that cost me ?110 but i would sell for ?80, took me to grade 7 and i only upgraded for g8 as i was given the money. ive kept it as a spare ever since. good bow