VIOLIN SHOPPING!!
Okay... So I am now hunting for a new (old or new) violin to replace my (sorry to say) rather dire Antoni Debut as a birthday prezzie I'm only at grade 2 but know enough to realise that the Antoni is... an violin shaped object with an one dimensional, screechy sound

Have now gone to the local violin shop and tried 3 violins in my price range.
1. Romanian one (either 'unlabelled' or the label has fallen off - this might mean a bargain ) - Tone was quite warm and mellow, but lacked resonance a little - the 'E' string was not screechy but was quite bright but sweet. ?120 (apparently okay up to Grade 6, 7 and perhaps 8)
2. Czech one - too bright and had a VERY 'screechy' E string. Did not like it at ALL and discarded at once. ?350 with set-up - suspecting that it was the set up that was the problem for difficult bowing.
3. Another Czech one but still without label. Resonant but sweet! This Czech one was loud but mellow across the (limited) range I could play and sweet but resonant on the E string. ?250 with extra set up (If this is what it could do without all the set-up work, what would it be like with?! ) (apparently okay for grade 8 beyond not sure if I believe it really!)

I like the 3rd one the best but am currently taking out the 1st one for approval
At the minute neither of those 3 are 'tugging at my heartstring' but I like the 3rd one. A LOT. But obviously... I bet none of you on the forums are going to let me buy it without trying the Gligas ! Its off to elida next...

Any other violin shops near to South East London/Central London that you can recommend?

p.s. If you're wondering why the 2 violins that I have liked are all under ?300, its because the next one up from that and the 2nd one was at ?700! No way I could afford that. Also since the violin shop was small, they didn't have a wide range to choose from.

Quick question: How would you tell if the purfling was inlaid or drawn on?
-An excited
~ViolinClarinetQueen~

If the purfling is drawn on, the grain of the wood on the top or back will carry on through between the scribed lines, inlaid purfling "breaks" the grain lines. This is particularly noticeable on the top since the grain lines are more prominent.
Here's a fairly extreme example showing painted purfling on a 16th century cittern:




I wouldn't let drawn on purfling put you off a violin you otherwise like.

Czech violins <3

Czech violins are often undervalued yet very well made. I'm not sure about cheaper Czech violins but the works of people like Spidlen, Hubicka and Vavra - master makers, highly undervalued and under appreciated!

Personally I wouldn't buy a violin with drawn on purfling - it suggests to me that the maker didn't care enough to take the time to do what should be standard or wasnt skillful enough? That's probably a silly way for me to think though! And saying that, I played a violin once which the shop had 'discarded' as being a poor instrument mainly as it had drawn on purfling, but i played it and it wasnt terrible and i'm sure it could have made a nice instrument for someone.

I totally don't believe a violin costing ?120 could take you beyond grade 4 let alone to grade 8, same with ?250 - it seems a bit like the shop are giving you false information there. I don't really know anyone who's done grade 8 on anything less than minimum ?800 - but of course this always depends on peoples personal budget, there's no 'you have to do grade X on a violin costing X' you just get what you can afford

But it seems like you're having a lot of fun! Hope you enjoy your violin search - i think it may be a better idea to look somewhere else

I agree it's not usually a hallmark of quality, but there are a lot of old Mirecourt violins (for example) with painted purfling that can make good sense in the price bracket the OP is interested in.
(In fact there are even some nice old big bucks Italian instruments with scribed or burned on purfling on the back... )

Good point I do agree that in the price bracket of ?700 and below, it's probably not the most important thing to worry about

Thanks for the picture - I don't think the Romanian violin has a drawn-on purfling though...



I was wondering where your forum name came from..! >.<

I wasn't believing them AT ALL... until I heard them telling someone else that a Buffet B12 clarinet is 'only' okay for up to Grade 3/4! (It should be technically okay upto Grade 5!)


I was hoping a Gliga Gama (?450) or something around ?350-450 will get me there!


Definitely - might try Elida and Bond on Chappell Street

The Gliga should get you there don't worry Good value for money! If I remember correctly did my grade 6 on a ?450 violin and started work for grade 8 on it - but then ended up doing my grade 8 on one that was ?2000 i cant really remember but id imagine i could have done it on the ?450 if needs be.
Sounds like you have a good plan! Let us know how you get on at the other shops
You could always post a picture of the purfling if you wanted to find out for sure

My daughter will be doing her grade 8 on a Gliga Gama next term. Her teacher is perfectly happy with it.

I did Dip ABRSM on a Gliga Gama and grade 8 on a lesser instrument - you can only play on what you can afford or are lucky enough to borrow.

Very true, plus youre probably more likely to benefit in the long run from having to work at getting what you need out of a violin rather than have a really expensive one doing half the work for you

I took my grade 8 on a violin costing ?70 with metal strings. I don't remember any adverse comments about the tone... This was a last-minute upgrade from the previous one which cost ?16 and which kept coming apart at the seams. As you said, if that's all you can afford...

W

Wow, very impressive! That's amazing. What violin was it did it have a label?

Particularly as the exams get more and more expensive as you get more advanced!

The replacement strings on Fiddlechick's grade 8 viola cost more than the instrument ..... admittedly it was a lucky buy but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility.

Sounds like you're being sensible, VCQ - do factor in the cost of a bow and maybe a case, as after the beginner outfits you often have to buy these separately.

Also, have you told your teacher you're looking for an upgrade? As a teacher myself I keep a list of pupils with instruments they would like to sell on (usually because they're outgrown, either physically or technically) and it may well be that your teacher does something similar.

Enjoy!

SInce when could you get a violin for 16 pounds?!

Tried the Romanian one at home... it sounds like the 'E' string might have to be changed as it sounds quite screechy, but all the other ones are very warm and mellow, but I'm definitely trying more violins!

@Minstrel: Yes, but I don't think he does that

Any violin shop recommendations for around South-East/central London

It was a long time ago - but it was sold by a private seller/repairer in the local paper. My friend bought one from the same people for ?12 - it lasted her up to grade 6 and she later went on to music college.

W

Quick update... took violin to teacher (the violin sounds 'tinny' though the sound is sweet on the upper registers)... I'll take the Czech one out next week, but please can anyone recommend a good shop in South-East/central London?

Malcolm Tysoe, in Farnborough (the one near Orpington, not the one in North Hampshire)

I did grade 8 viola on a Poller and I know someone else who did it on a Zeller.

Liz

Update
The ?250 that I really liked has SOLD!
On a second note though... I found a Yamaha V5SC (I think) that was quite nice! I found this at Chappells but no approval service so I couldn't take it out. Also found a Paesold (I think?) one for ?500 but for that money I might as well get a Gliga Gama!

Retried the violin that was ?350 at the first shop...The shop re-set it up and gave it a new tailpiece, bridge, soundpost, tuning pegs and adjusted the fingerboard - It instantly became warmer and had a rounder sound than everything I have tried so far, one thing is that because of a slight cosmetic damage, its been lowered down to ?350 otherwise it would have been MUCH more expensive. It has a W. Thompson label (which was the previous dealer's name) but is a German violin approximately 80 years old.
^Seems like I really like that violin!

Next (And final) step is to call Elida and ask for a Gliga Gem outfit and a Gama fo approval

Also, if I was to get either the German violin (?350) or the Gama (?450) Approximately how much should I spend on a bow? I have heard it is a third of the price? Anyone use a Glasser bow - how is it? And does anyone know when I can call Elidatrading - has it got an 'opening hours' where Liz answers the calls or is it any time (obviously not too early/late)?

Boy this is exciting!!

Elida are generally around in office hours, and they have the Glasser bows so they could include one on approval with the Gligas. I've tried a glasser, and would be happy to recommend them to my students upgrading at your level. Better to get the middle range one, the cheapest are a little light.

Have fun!!

I'd go for the middle Glasser bow too. I have a pupil with the cheapest Glasser and it has a tendency to tighten itself rather a lot while she is playing it - I know that (some) carbon composite and fibreglass bows do tighten noticeably in warm weather, as the material of the sticks expands, but this happens with her bow even during a lesson on a less than warm day and she doesn't play with a huge amount of vigour! Perhaps it is only a one-off with her bow, but you never know. I have a basic Col Legno which doesn't do this.

im super impressed with col legno bows, i have one as my spare bow and i wouldnt be worried if i had to use it for any performance

I talked to my tutor about the col legno bow and she said that describing a bow as 'a col legno bow' was a perjorative term for a cheap bow that was no good for anything except hitting the violin with!

I guess the makers of this brand had a sense of humour!

Funnily enough, if i'm ever playing col legno i put down my expensive bow and pick up the col legno bow... !!

Some composers say 'never put col legno in your pieces, all the violinists will be playing with their worst bows'

I wouldnt reccommend them as a main bow for anyone over grade 5/6 but as a spare bow they are pretty reliable! Like I mentioned somewhere else, i work in a violin shop and the closest supply of bows is a cupboard of col legnos, when i need to play i grab one and never think 'ugh cheap bow' or think it cant do what im trying to get it to do

What does col legno even mean?
Anyways - teacher felt that the 350 violin cod be better for its price... I liked it but I also thought it could be mellower in the lower registers and louder and more resonant.
Going to call gligas... Please tell me that elida answers the phone on sundays!!

LOL probably not!

Col legno...with the wood. YOu turn the bow on its side and use the stick and a tiny bit of hair - hence why people don't like to use their best bow as it chips the varnish!!