Here in France stage pianos are called "pianos de sc?ne" and my web searches haven't been very helpful. I need to replace a synthesiser that isn't functionning properly and that I have been using as a "piano" in group lessons for young beginners. However, it has occurred to me that a full size piano keyboard with more attention to the sound and action might be a better choice.

I need to be able to store the keyboard up ended in a small space between a cupboard and a wall and I will need to use it on a metal folding stand. but what really concerns me is the volume output. I have seen some with an output of 6 watts and others with an output of 10. I don't really want to have external amplifiers as for classroom use this would be too complicated.

Does anyone know of an instrument of this type which would be OK for group teaching but also - and this is important - loud enough to support up to 60 children singing together, say at a Christmas concert? What wattage would I need?

I had a Yamaha P70 stage piano a few years ago whilst our house was being renovated. It had good weighted keys and a reasonable sound through the speakers although with decent headphones, the sound was much better through these. It was fairly solid but it still bounced a bit on the stand when I was into a full practice session.

The equivalent model now seems to be the P95
http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical-i...ion/?mode=model

They seem to be around the ?500-600 mark - I found one on Amazon with stand and stool for ?575 although it is a special offer through one music shop.

Have you tried looking at the Thomann website? I bought a stage piano for my daughter from there (one of their own brand ones).

It has weighted keys and sounds OK. However, I'm not sure about how loud it is through the speakers. I bought it as a supplement to the acoustic piano (which is downstairs) and so most of the time she plays it with headphones on.

Hers is mounted permanently on its base but I was inspired to buy her one after trying someone else's on a metal folding stand and it was reasonably stable. They are quite heavy though and I'm not sure that I'd want to keep getting it out and putting it away.

Thank you Louise H and Roseau. Info duly noted. I was hoping to stay under 400 euros but will have a look and see if the Yamaha P95 is available in France. Maybe I am being a bit too optimistic about prices.

I did look at the Thomann website but didn't really find their technical details very helpful and I really need someone to tell me what sort of wattage I would need to support our junior school singing. It would have to double up as a moveable piano for occasions like Christmas, Easter and school f?te because I really don't want to start moving my precious Roland around. I thought a stage piano would be carriable by me alone or me and a large child!

I have a Yamaha P120 and on occasion I've brought it to use at choir events where there's no piano and the audience gets to join in for a few songs. The volume has been fine and I am able to lug it myself, you just need to find the balance point. It only wobbles a bit on the stand if you're playing a series of really loud chords, but it's generally very stable.
I think it cost me around 1000 euros, and I vaguely remember reading that there's not an awful lot of difference between it and the P90, but don't take my word for it! Maybe the techie types on the pianoworld forum could advise you about watts and so on!

I suspect that at this price range, you're going to have to find a compromise. I've got a Roland FP-4: good quality sound, a size that would suit your storage, and just about enough volume, but way above 400 euros! It also weighs a ton, almost a two-person job to manoeuvere it safely.

I'd suggest focussing on size and sound quality, and go with an external amp after all. Any second-hand bass guitar amp should be fine for classroom work.

Edit: you could always test amps out for sheer volume in a general music shop, by using one of their display keyboards! The listed power rating doesn't guarantee a particular decibel level.

Your choice will be between the Yamaha P95 and Casio PX-130/5 (unless you find an older model second hand)

Wattage of the amplifier isn't an absolute measure of volume since that also depends on the efficiency of the speakers. More efficient speakers are louder with less wattage than less efficienct speakers with more wattage.

Efficiency is usually indicated as decibels/Watt or as the SPL (sound pressure level) measured for 1 Watt of input at 1 metre distance.

I doubt if those figures are published in the tech spec that you'll get for a stage piano rather than a hi-fi system, so I think you'll have to test it.

Plus, for a stage piano, it's typically one metre straight into the ground!

Thanks a lot every one. I will digest all this info and get back to searching and let you know if I find anything. I'm afraid I still have to say no external speakers. I have three classrooms into which I have to move everything with no break between lessons and precious little space to work in. That's the problem really.

I think the PX-130/5 will be the lightest option if regular mobility is a concern.

I have the Casio PX130. Basically the reason I chose this was because it was much lighter and not too many pennies (obviously some compromise but no good if I couldn't move it.) It also has a line out (not many do in this sort of price range), which means it can connect to a sound system or amplifier if needed. Its been very useful for what it is.
Hope this helps.

I still remember the days we had PX130, which was easier to carry around. Now with Roland FP4, it is much harder to drag around even with SKB trolly case

If money is no object then Yamaha's CP1 is hard to beat. Kurzweil, Korg, Roland and others also make high quality instruments, but their products tend to be more expensive than equivalents from Yamaha.

The Yamaha PX-130 is a fine instrument, but for most people the P95, at half the price, will do the job just as well. It also has the convenience (Lacking on the PX-130)of a built in speaker, suitable for practicing, or for performing in small venues, but at a mere 6W per channel something more powerful is needed for most performances.

None of these instruments has the durability and longevity of a traditional piano, and in heavy use they are likely to become rattly and/or something will probably break after a few years.

Concerning amplifiers/speakers, it is hard to judge just how good these instrumetns sound when you are litening through a cheap external speaker, or the small built-in. Apart from not reproducing the sound quality faithfully a cheap or lower power amp and small speakers allow the notes to fade too rapidly, giving the false impression that the instrument has no sustaining power. To get the best from an electronic piano you need a good quality amp/speaker combo that is specially designed for it (a guitar amp or voice PA system will not do!). But a good quality keyboard amplifier/speaker, bought new, will cost between 200GBP and 500GBP.

If you can live with a Midi keyboard and use a computer or dedicated sound generator to create your piano sounds then the feel of Fatar's studiologic keyboards is closer to a "real" piano than anything this side of a Yamaha silent grand.

I would say the Roland Stage pianos (FP4 and FP7) would be out of the question in terms of weight alone. The Roland FP7 weighs in at just over 4 stone (26 Kg) and the FP4 is only marginally lighter. They big and bulky and have no convenient handholds to facilitate carrying. To handle them safely requires two people, and even then I would not want to carry one more than a few yards. The piano sound through the built-in speakers is only just about acceptable.

This is rather a shame because in most other respects (including touch) they are very good, as digital pianos go.

Very many thanks again for all the helpful replies. I am going to print them out and have a good cogitate and another web search.

[quote name='VH2' date='Jul 11 2012, 12:25 PM' post='1159272']

The Yamaha PX-130 is a fine instrument, but for most people the P95, at half the price, will do the job just as well. It also has the convenience (Lacking on the PX-130)of a built in speaker, suitable for practicing, or for performing in small venues,

Just to confirm the PX130 does have built in speakers and a line out. The P95 has speakers but I think not a line out?

Anyway good luck in your searching Aquarelle.

True the P95 does not have a line out, but the headphone jacks allow it to connect to an external amp/speaker with good results. I did not realise that the PX-130 had built in speakers as, unlike less expensive Yamahas, I have never owned one, only played it in a shop. Sorry

Certainly the 130 has built in speakers, but I don't think it has line out.

Thanks to all your comments I think I am going to try to afford the Yamaha P95 - mainly because in addition to seeming to be good value for money it is light enough for me to move with reasonable ease. I have found prices on the net varying from 515 euros to 555. I need to check whether any of the bundles on offer would be worth it and on the length of guarantees etc but I think I'll go for the cheapest if it the seller looks reliable.

Probably the cheapest price would be Thomann's (in Germany).

If you're lookign at the P95 I gather a P105 is on its way, although quite how many months away it is I'm not sure.

I've clicked around a bit and it seems it will be available in the states in October but at 999 dollars it is out of my price range.