hey wobby.
its got to be harmonic, always played those for my exams, there so much easier to play, and becuz of that there good for me, cuz i aint brilliant at learning my scales!!!1

This might sound totally daft.....but....I find it really hard to remember which one is which???????? Like in an exam when the examiner says Fsharp minor - melodic - it takes me quite a while to think of he means "the same up and down", or " up one way and then change on the way down".

Is it just me?
Anyone else have this mental block?
Or any one got a handy way of remembering which is which??

Soon-to-be-grade-8-but-not-in-the-scales-section!

try thinking of melodic as a melody... it varies...

mmm.

I think I just know that harmonic is "this one" and melodic is "that one" lol... it helps if you know the theory.

another way which may(?) help, melodic is so called because it's used for melodies because it's smoother, harmonic is easier to harmonise otoh (apparently) at least as far as I know that's why they have those names.

QUOTE (cecilia @ Feb 15 2005, 11:42 PM)

I did harmonic for grades 1-4 as they were easier to memorise, but did the melodics for grade 5 so that I didn't have to learn another set in a panic at grade 6 when I suddenly needed them. I like melodic minors

That's what I've been doing with my flute grade 6 scales. No point landing myself in a panic when I hit grade 6.

i knew i should have done that

Yeah, as I thought, most people tend to use harmonics. I did use harmonics in my last exam, but I think I prefer melodic scales now, as when you descend it's really easy as they're all white notes, or vice-versa. Then again, harmonics are also quite easy, as they're the same both ways. Not that it matters though, as I normally do terribly in the scales section (just pass it), and make up it for it with the sight-reading, aurals and pieces.

As for the semi-tone and tone thing, I have no idea. Isn't Fbb the same as Eb? And isn't Cb the same as B? I thought you generally use double sharps and flats when you have a key signature with lots of sharps or flats, to get the correct note. Or is Cb more sharp than B, and in between B and C? Does that make B# the same as C? Oh well.

Wobby

QUOTE (Wobby @ Feb 16 2005, 08:21 PM)

Isn't Fbb the same as Eb? Does that make B# the same as Cb?

yes

QUOTE

And isn't Cb the same as B?

yes

QUOTE

Does that make B# the same as Cb?

nope B# is C

Cb is B

I've just been doing some of my grade 8 violin scales and I keep meaning to play the melodics but end up playing the harmonic version ascending and then suddenly realising so only playing the descending part as the melodic! My brain hurts...

when i play melodics i paly the melodic version ascending and then do the same on the way down, forgetting that its different D'OH!

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Feb 16 2005, 08:23 PM)

QUOTE Does that make B# the same as Cb? nope B# is C Cb is B

Did I say that...?

erm...yes!!

I dont even know what the difference between harmonic and melodic is.
then again I dont know any scales.
(Nat, before you say anything, shut up! lol)

QUOTE (ConcertPianist @ Feb 15 2005, 03:56 AM)

what the.... are you taking college theory?

Not at present. I graduated with a BA in music in 1998. Most of this is basic theory, applied to extremes. I learnt most of it before I started my BA course. I met the interval from Bbb down to F# in about 1993, when I was conducting some Elgar, and worked out that it must be doubly diminished 4th from first principles. B down to F# is a perfect fourth. If you flatten the top note of a perfect fourth you get a diminished fourth. If you flatten the top note yet again, you are diminishing the interval again. What else can you call it? Of course, people who think an octave can have only twelve notes in it (an idea that would have been foreign to any music theorist before about 1800) don't see the logic or need for this.

QUOTE (Saxophonist @ Feb 17 2005, 12:05 AM)

I dont even know what the difference between harmonic and melodic is. then again I dont know any scales. (Nat, before you say anything, shut up! lol)

pft i havent even opened my mouth to say anythin and you're telling me to shut up

..pft

I know what you mean about basic theory carried to extremes.

You can get some strange things

C to C#..... augmented unison?

C to Cx......doubly augmented unison?

QUOTE (Wobby @ Feb 16 2005, 08:21 PM)

As for the semi-tone and tone thing, I have no idea.  :huh: Isn't Fbb the same as Eb? And isn't Cb the same as B? I thought you generally use double sharps and flats when you have a key signature with lots of sharps or flats, to get the correct note. Or is Cb more sharp than B, and in between B and C? Does that make B# the same as C? Oh well.  :lol:

In equal temperament, they are the same. In perfect temperament they would not be. Pianists obviously don't have a choice, unless they are playing an electric piano which has that function.

(ps: *I THINK!* lol...)

I noticed one subscriber claiming that more pieces were written in harmonic minors than in melodic. First I heard of it!

I think perhaps melodic minors prove more useful than harmonic - scales themselves being particular melodies.

The harmonic aspect of minor keys should have you thinking more about arpeggios perhaps. The reality is that melodies in minor keys don't regularly have the 3 semitone gap, hence the muscular memory that goes with the endless practice of harmonic minors may be of limited direct usefulness.

In Trinity guitar my son was required to play natural minors as well. You could make a case that the natural minor is of more relevance as a scale than the harmonic minor! This is the mode.

The reality is that the younger pianist learns the harmonic minor scales first because ascending form is the same as descending. Maybe they should be learning NATURAL minor scales first, then melodic next. Is the "harmonic minor scale" an oxymoron?

QUOTE (George Burrell @ Feb 24 2005, 04:39 AM)

I noticed one subscriber claiming that more pieces were written in harmonic minors than in melodic. First I heard of it! I think perhaps melodic minors prove more useful than harmonic - scales themselves being particular melodies.

as far as I understand it - melodic scales are used for melodies - because they are, as their name suggests, relatively melodic - whereas harmonic minors are more often used to harmonise.