Does anyone use the higher level Piano Adventures books. I haven't got anyone passed level 2B at the moment. I'm assuming at the end of 2B you could tackle Grade 1 but what about the higher levels vs further grades?

If not Piano Adventures, what about other schemes? Or do you all ditch them at G1 level for repertoire instead?

Yes.

A bit the other way round. I use the early PA books as tutor books (but they aren't the only tutor books I use as they are brilliant for some beginners and no go for others) and when I switch to the more conventional repertoire leading to exam work I use PA for light relief, confidence building, keyboard facility - and fun. Some of the pieces come in very handy for concerts as they are relatively easy and at the same time colourful and showy.

Agreed.


I quite like Piano Adventures, and do use them, but feel they are not right for everyone. It's amazing that any of us can play, actually, being taught by all the "old" methods.

I learned from:

The Schaum Piano course, and ......


http://www.musicroom.com/se/id_no/02761/details.html (can't believe it's still available!)




I remember loving them both!

They didn't seem to do me any harm, put it that way.

I don't use the Jack and Jill one at all, incidentally, but still dabble with the Schaum for some children, if I think it's the right course.

lol, I used Schaum and Fanny Waterman!!

I have a G3 student who could use some of the structured technique of the earlier books but is more advanced and wondered if the later books would work for him.

At least that's what I plan to do, but my most advanced pupils are only at level 2B, so I've not actually put this into practice yet.


A couple of forumites mentioned that they didn't think PA was right for all their pupils. What are the indicators for you that it's not a good fit? And which courses do you use when you don't think PA is right for the pupil? I only have a small number of pupils and so far I've only really used PA. I'm considering using Piano time with one pupil in the autumn, but merely in order to cut down the sibling rivalry and not because I think PA is a bad fit with the child.

I've only used the PA tutor book with a couple of pupils because it's in English but I use the other books a lot in much the same way as Aquarelle - fun, light relief, confidence building.
One of my youngish pupils who got merit in G2 at Xmas has, in the last 6 months, learnt a couple of G3 pieces, a couple of other G2 pieces and quite a few from the Performance 3A book which, in theory, is a lot easier than G2/G3 but that was her 'quick learning' book, and she loved it. For our summer concert, she played the Bagatelle from that book, and a G3 piece.
If you want an equivalent but different method for a sibling then I think that Hal Leonard is the closest and also very good. Bastien is a little less inspired but also provides a good method-based system and has some real favourites. The pace and look of Piano Time, on the other hand, is quite different from PA.
I think PA is a great choice for most but not, for instance, for a more able beginner who moves along quite quickly. Nor for a slightly older child who wants a more serious looking book.

I find it's particularly good for technical issues, so I use the Technique and Artistry books. And the theory books are far better than many others which go with lesson books: they encompass composition and improvisation, sight-reading and aural work too. No more page-after-page writing ut of scales and chord inversions.

For lesson books and performance books I wouls also recommend Alfred Premier or Alfred Basic. They have slightly different approaches, but both use very sound pedagogy and include extremely enjoyable music.

Some of my children seem to need a more intellectual approach. Actually intellectual isn't the right word but I find it difficult to expalin. It's a sort of gut feeling that something a bit "tidier" than PA suits some children and I also find this when working with pairs and groups of three. In the case of group teaching or teaching children who are not very confident about moving around the keyboard I have used Lina Ng"s "Piano Lesson Made Easy" book 1. I haven't really taken to Book 2 but there again, it would depend.

I have two little girls starting together next term and one is English, one French so the lessons will be bilingual. I think I might uses "Ministeps to Music" as the little pieces are short enough for the French child to come to grips with the words and the French English child likes things to move logically and in small steps - I know them both as I have taught them English and recorder in class.

Ministeps is old fashioned but sound and although in black and white there is lots of scope for colouring the pictures. It is also a series of which I have used the later books and it suits young children. The drawback is the rather small print. Also I skip the first pages of guff in book one. I have always felt it is a series worth a good revision.

Yes, this has been an issue for me. What I've been experimenting with is not giving the more able children the lesson book. They have theory, technique and performance instead - they understand the concepts quite easily so don't need all the reinforcement that the lesson book provides and they get to play the most fun pieces, which tend to be in the performance book. Theoretically this should enable them to progress more quickly (if they remember to practise! ) Whereas those students who get the lesson book do not have the performance book, although I might loan them it to learn one or two pieces.

So which books do you use for your more able beginners?

I usually use the Papp piano method for beginners :

http://diamdiffusion.fr/180904-papp-method...l=16&or=res

If you buy it new, it's expensive but I've got a couple of copies that I sell and re-sell to the appropriate pupils (at a real second-hand price). It's printed on very good quality paper and ring-bound so lasts well.

I partly chose it because it's in English and French (and German) but it's also a very good method book in itself - short, well-chosen, musically varied, well laid out pieces that are nicely presented and that follow a sensible method.
It moves along quickly (beginner to about grade 1-2) but in little bite-size pieces. It's good for little children (clean, easy to read and with tiny little pictures) but also fine for older children - the overall look is somehow quite grown-up.

There's no text, just titles and headings, which some people might not like but I don;t think kids read the explanations very much.

I don;t know the more able pupil purely English method books very well - I don't think I'd ever use the Piano Time ones out of choice.

(PS This Papp method book should not be confused with the Schott Emonts European method book which I have also used and don't like and wouldn;t use again, although it does have certain plus points).

.

Arghh this forum costs me a fortune!! Just ordered the performance, sight reading and theory books for Level 1! I have a struggling child about to move from My first to Book 1 and perhaps these might help her.

Meanwhile, which level book would you say corresponds with Grade 2 exams?

I don't really know the answer as I don't have any level 4 or 5 books. But if you go to the Piano Adventures website and download the catalogue by clicking the link on this page here you can see some extracts from the books. The Developing Artist Piano Literature books, which are also shown under the appropriate levels, are probably the best guide as their contents are pieces that you may well be familiar with, whereas the course books often contain music or arrangements by the Fabers and therefore you need to see the books to judge their level.

many thanks for the various suggestions for alternative tutor books from posters. I don't think I've seen the Papp before and it is indeed expensive, but I will keep a look out for it.

Book 4 contains Burgmuller's Arabesque, which is obviously a classic grade 2 piece. Also, the Gypsy Legend by Chovan, which I would put as Grade 2 level.
Some of the other pieces may seem more G1 or G1.5 but it depends a bit on the style i.e. long, arpeggiated lh chord accompaniments are not too tricky as such but are not usually included for G1 players because the stretches are too much and there's too much moving around the keyboard, albeit within obvious chord patterns, which the US system teaches more rigorously than the UK system.

Thanks, I've just taken a look at the Piano Literature Book 3 which says it's Level 4 and there are some G1, G2 and G3 pieces in there. But then Book 4 (Level 5) has a G6 piece in it!! What a jump.

I know grading pieces isn't vital but I do like having an understanding of level. It helps me build up a bigger picture.

Hi, the Book 4 I was talking about was the Piano Adventures Performance book, i.e. part of the regular method books.

The Literature books are quite different, I think. I have one of them (can't remember which off-hand) but I think book 2 would be about Grade 2 (and, yes, I like to have a rough idea of grade levels too).

I've just ordered the Papp method you suggested dolce@piano. I thought it might be an alternative to my intention to use Ministeps with my mixed language pair. It was 31.85 euros but I haven't got a lot of other stuff to order this year so splashed out. I could have got it cheaper on amazon.fr but for some reason they won't recognise me. I haven't had time to sort them out! Anyway it will be interesting to look at something different.

Ouch, that is quite dear !

I do so hope you like it now . . .

Just to add, it does start from the very basics but I always give my absolute beginners (even the teenage ones) the Hal Leonard baby primer book first.
For the little kids (who on average take about 3 months to get through it) I find the HL makes sure the real basics are covered and then I can assess whether to continue with the HL books or, as said before, if they are moving quite fast I can put them onto the Papp book.
For the teenagers, I lend them the HL book and they go through it in 3-4 weeks but then take off flying with a more grown-up book.

So that's my only proviso i.e. that I haven;t used it as an absolute beginner book.
Apart from that, I really enjoy it - just to add, I once had two 9 year-olds who were both doing very well after the initial couple of months. I moved one onto Papp and the other onto the Herv?/Pouillard Premiere annee de piano published by Lemoine which, on the face of it, seemed a well laid out, nicely presented method book, although a bit overly 'technical' perhaps. Anyway, I knew that a lot of teachers here use it so I thought I'd give it a go.
In short, the Papp girl did infinitely better, and I enjoyed it far more too - it just seemed a lot better all round. And further experience has backed that up.

Do let me know what you think.

PS Sorry to everyone else that this is a bit specific and also rather off-topic but it was just possible that someone else was thinking about the book too so I left it as a public message.

I think the difficulty is that in the US, they don't seem particularly bothered by exams so it's really difficult to equate their books with our grades. They also seem to have a different approach to pedagogy and so things which might in the UK seem quite a jump might not be so much so in their context of their approach.

For me, Piano Adventures works very well as long as the lesson book is supported by the theory and technique books. I find that the progress in the lesson book alone is rather quick for most children. I do like the series though.

If pupils are moving fast and have started scales and sight reading I divert to pre-Grade 1 / easiest grade 1 pieces at the end of PA1. Otherwise I wait until about half-way through PA2A. I prefer to move off PA at this point as although I like the pieces, they stay in 5-finger positions rather too long.

For slowish pupils I use 3A and 3B performance books after Grades 1 and 2 respectively as the pieces sound impressive and move around the keyboard but are quite quick to learn so give the idea that the hard work has been worthwhile!

The Lajos Papp book arrived this morning. I knew it was ring bound, dolce@piano, as you have said so, so I had already prepared myself to overcome my horror or ring bound books. There was, of course, the usual one page only half bound and lots of pages dtuck to one another at the binding point so I turned through the lot very carefully!

On to the content. It does look very interesting. I think it might well suit my bilingual pair as they have actually covered some music basics in class music lessons with me. For me it will make a nice change from the American methods - which I like but which, like anything one uses a lot, can get a bit stale. I'm going to play through this afternoon and I think I will use it - perhaps in conjunction with other things but I don't think it was a waste of money, not by any means (the price did include postage!)