Hi all,
I just wondered if there is an easier way to describe fully each of the numbered melodic intervals. Every time I do that section of the practice paper, I have to use a chart or table........... a really long table..... I don't think I can bring that chart to the theory examination..........So I will have to remember it.. but it is so long and complicated ( at least for me) Do anyone know a much easier way to do it ? Please.... I really need it...... I know there is one. One of my friend taught me that but I don't understand.........

you will just have to remember it im afraid!

But I know there is one.......... I think many of my friends do it and they don't have to use a table............ When they do it, they keep saying those words : m M m M P A P m M m M...

m=minor
M=Major
P= perfect
A= Augmented

everyone has different ways. try to work out the major interval first

if its a semitone less than major its minor
semitone less than minor is diminshed
semitone more than minor is major
semitone more than major is augmented
semitone more than perfect is augmented
semitone less than perfect is diminshed


........i think thats right

Ahem............ more spelling mistakes.........

erm where?

You change it............

hehe lol its was only like this perfec tis i just put the space in the wrong place thats all

anyway- does that help at all?!

No.....................

Your ........semitione and thgan...

someone explain i have to dash!!

Bye..............

Youv'e diminished your diminished to make it diminshed!

Your semitone is slightly larger, namely semitione. People with perfect pitch would hear this slightly sharpened interval wouldn't they?

Never mind Nat, we all make mistakes and its the thought that counts!
I just accidentally wrote "fought" down just now as I was writing this!!

Gae

I know someone who took a plastic ruler into the theory exam with a keyboard design on it! and he got away with it. So if you find sitting with a keyboard/piano in from of you so you can consider the different intervals, musically and physically, which is how I learnt it, try getting hold of one of those!

Lets explain this using examples. To work out the interval between C and E:

Count the letter names involved between C and E (three, so it's a third of some kind.)
Does the E fall in a C major scale? (Yes so its a major interval)

4ths, 5ths, and 8ves are perfect as long as they are in the major scales of the bottom note. A semitone smaller makes them diminished and a semitone larger makwes them augmented.

All other are majot of they are in the major scale. A semitone smaller makes it minor, a semitone smaller than that makes it dimished, and a semitone larger than the major makes it augmented.

C to Eb is a minor 3rd because the E is in the major scale and the Eb makes the interval smaller, therefore making it a minor.

Hope this helps and hasn't confused you too much!

Like purple dolphin I work from the major...makes more sense in the real world - especially on the piano.

I teach it this way

Major reduced = minor
Minor and perfect reduced = diminished
Major and Perfect increased = Augmented.

I also tell them that if they don't like the key they have to work in - then change it! BUT remember to do the same thing to both of them - C# to G# is the same as C to G, and keep the letters the same. Cb can't become B for instance.

Now I used to love working out intervals...and I loved inverting them to check back.

As long as the interval isn't a compound one, if you invert it the 'new number' and the 'old number' will add up to 9. For example C - F is a 4th, F - C1 will then be a 5th (4+5=9).

Major inverted becomes minor
Minor inverted becomes major
Perfect inverted stays perfect
Augmented inverted becomes diminished (and vice versa)

So....C - G# is an Augmented 5th
invert it
G# to the C above it should work out as a diminished 4th (aug becomes dim. and 5th becomes 4th).
C - Eb is a minor 3th.
invert it
Eb to the C above will turn out to be a major 6th (min becomes maj and 3rd becomes 6th)

I love the way that works.

This seems to be making intervals nicely complicated.

God my way's really weird! And even more complicated! well it looks it! at the time, I didn't know as much theory so I didn't automatically know what a major 3rd of everything was etc.
I'd look at how many "notes" there were in between, without thiknig about sharps or flats. So D# to C, I'd think D-C = 7. So it's a something or other 7th
I learned how many semitones there were in each of the intervals of a major scale. eg 2nd=2,
3rd=4,
4th =5
5th=7
6th=9
7th=11


Then I'd count how many semtinoes there were (using my fingers) so a D# to C would have 9 semitones.
Then I'd've learned that
if the number of semitones I'd counted was the same as what the something or other 7th had, then it as major
If it had 1less it was minor or diminished 4th or 5th only
If it was 2 less then it was diminished 3rd, 6th or 7th
If it was one more it was augmented

I was feckless at intervals, but that really worked! Looks more complicated than it actually is, and I got full marks on that bit!
I just remember checking it to make sure I'd counted right. Once it's in your head, you don't forget it!
It's like maths really!

I think a lot of theory is maths, some is language and some is just common sense!

I always work out intervals on the imaginary keyboard in my head. As a pianist, this works - and I have total admiration for those of you who as non-pianists still manage to work out theory questions without a piano!

Gae- im totally confuzzled now!!

I'm sorry I cannot contribute an explanation. I tried explaining intervals to my sister last week and it was then that I found out how bad I am at teaching.
Or perhaps it was my sister?

Anyway you'll get the hang of it eventually.

i never used to be able to fo intervals. i would obviously get the number, but i'd guess the rest! then my head of music sat down and explained it to me and then it just clicked! i love them now!

QUOTE (Petite Joueuse @ Feb 16 2005, 03:49 PM)

I have total admiration for those of you who as non-pianists still manage to work out theory questions without a piano!

The first thing I did in my Grade 5 Theory exam was to draw a keyboard on the rough paper you're given. Less risky than taking a keyboard ruler in!

QUOTE

This seems to be making intervals nicely complicated.

I think it depends at least partly on whether you know the theory that came before....
Once you understand the major and minor scales (grade2 )... it is just an extension of that really.

Remember that for each grade (from 2 up) the syllabus is as for previous grades PLUS... whatever else.

Erm........... after reading all those..............post..........
which make them a bit complicated...........
I decided to remember the table.....sorry........... because that makes much more sense.... I hope you all are not angry.........


P.S : I finally know my table............

Absolutely furious! Course we're not, if that's the best way for ou to learn them, then that's great!

Well done on learning your table!

Thanks.
So, another question : What does this mean - Two notes in the right-hand piano part which are tied together.
Found it in G5 2003 S part.

You have to hold the note on for the amount of time of both notes without playing them seerately. That didn't make sense.

Nat's online now

Yay...................... Have you done your homework Nat ?

nope

What do you need to know for it?

my homework???

Err... what do you mean ?
The essays or the questions ?

Oh sorry, Nat, the homework.

Eleanor - is there any other theory I can help you with? Have you got any theory books?

oh erm,

~ stravinsky essay
~ 4 long questions on Othello
~ stupid sociology essay


erm i think thats it

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Feb 17 2005, 06:27 PM)

Eleanor - is there any other theory I can help you with? Have you got any theory books?

What is contralto and mezzo-soprano ? I only got a handbook of theory, pracice papers. Maybe this is a stupid question............

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Feb 17 2005, 06:29 PM)

oh erm, ~ stravinsky essay ~ 4 long questions on Othello ~ stupid sociology essay erm i think thats it

Oh, I pity you, Nat.
I got no homework today.................
You have music as a subject in school ?

lucky you- we are on a weeks holiday here so they give us laods of hwk

yes i do music in school

QUOTE

What is contralto and mezzo-soprano

I am not entirely sure. Ask in the Viva Voice forum.

I am trying to find the theory book I have, I'll let you know what it is called when I find it.

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Feb 17 2005, 06:36 PM)

lucky you- we are on a weeks holiday here so they give us laods of hwk yes i do music in school

Great. I wish my school have music as a subject..................................

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Feb 17 2005, 06:37 PM)

QUOTE What is contralto and mezzo-soprano I am not entirely sure. Ask in the Viva Voice forum. I am trying to find the theory book I have, I'll let you know what it is called when I find it.

OK !

mezzo soprano- has a range between soprano and contralto

a solo woman singer with an alto range is always called a contralto

THANKS !!!

And what does ben legato mean ? My teacher said that it is well smoothly............but I think it is weird...........

yea

ben means with

legato means smooth, so play smoothly i suppose

Thanks............

I think your principle is very good, but it needs one clarification.

QUOTE (purple dolphin @ Feb 16 2005, 01:39 PM)

Lets explain this using examples. To work out the interval between C and E: Count the letter names involved between C and E (three, so it's a third of some kind.)

Right

QUOTE

Does the E fall in a C major scale? (Yes so its a major interval)

You must make it clear that you are considering the major scale of the lower note of the interval, not always C.

QUOTE

4ths, 5ths, and 8ves are perfect as long as they are in the major scales of the bottom note. A semitone smaller makes them diminished and a semitone larger makes them augmented.

Right

QUOTE

All other are major if they are in the major scale. A semitone smaller makes it minor, a semitone smaller than that makes it diminished, and a semitone larger than the major makes it augmented.

Again this has to be the major scale based on the bottom note of the interval to be named.

QUOTE

C to Eb is a minor 3rd because the E is in the major scale and the Eb makes the interval smaller, therefore making it a minor. Hope this helps and hasn't confused you too much!

A somewhat similar way is to know what all the intervals are in the C major scale and then apply your rules for semitones larger and smaller. Which you prefer depends on whether you find it easier to remember these intervals (or remember the layout of the keyboard, or remember the sounds of the scale and identify the intervals from that: we all differ) than to remember all your major scales. Even without double sharps and flats there are 21 possible lower notes, so 21 scales. OTOH, in addition to the unisons there are 42 intervals in a major scale, though you can get away with remembering only 21 if you know how to work out inversions. I play scales by knowing what the intervals are, so my preferred method is as follows:

Minor seconds : E-F, B-C
Major seconds : C-D, D-E, F-G, G-A, A-B
Minor thirds . . : D-F, E-G, A-C, B-D
Major thirds . . : C-E, F-A, G-B
Perfect fourths : C-F, D-G, E-A, G-C, A-D, B-E
Augmented 4th: F-B

Perfect + semitone -> augmented
Perfect - semitone -> diminished
Major + semitone -> augmented
Major - semitone -> minor
Minor + semitone -> major
Minor - semitone -> diminished

Inversions:
The numbers add up to 9, e.g thirds invert to sixths
Perfect inverts to perfect
Major inverts to minor
Minor inverts to major
Augmented inverts to diminished
Diminished inverts to augmented

You can reduce this to three transformations, with <-> working both ways:

P <-> P
M <-> m
A <-> D

The mind boggles or caves in. Why do people need to know this interval thing?

for theory exams d'oh!!

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Feb 17 2005, 12:12 PM)

for theory exams d'oh!!

But seriously, that's about it. Kind of fodder for professors. It could get quite funny. Like what's the interval between E# and Fbb. Is it useful though?

well i think Nicki has to recognise intervals for her Gulildhall aural tests and i have to do a bit of i t for A-level so i suppose it is useful