Hi
Im just wondering, how difficult it is to teach in groups (like yamaha) as i do 1 to 1 tuition at home, and recently been thinking about doing 2 to 1 lessons. I was offered to do group tuition at our local music shop and told them i wasnt interested as i like doing indivdual lessons....Any ideas?
Full Version: Private Tuition- In Groups Of 2?
It's reasonably easy if both people are at the same standard. For example, two adults who want to learn for fun (especially singing) actually get more from having someone else there. Teaching 1 to 2 can be just as rewarding. However, if you are getting people who are different standards or personalities, then this would be very difficult.
David
David
and i agther theres more money in doing groups that individual? i would like to try 2 at a time (even though ive always said i wouldnt do group tuition
If you can match abilities I think group tuition is much better than individual tuition. Duets, ensemble work etc are great fun and you learn so much. They also learn from each other, you don't have to say the same thing twice etc etc. I think keyboard can also be done effectively in small groups although I have no experience of this myself.
I've just started teaching 2 adults in a pair because they can't afford individual lessons. I'm charge the same per hour as I would if it was just one of them.
It's fine, and quite fun, and they're at pretty much the same standard. However, if one of them has shaky self-esteem you can get onto dodgy ground - like if one of them worries the other is doing better.
I felt pupil A was a bit better than pupil B the first week, but the second week pupil B seemed to do better than pupil A. Pupil A got a bit flushed and worried, so I can already see the possible problems, especially if one or either of them is at all competitive...
So you do need to keep your eye on the ball....
Violinia
It's fine, and quite fun, and they're at pretty much the same standard. However, if one of them has shaky self-esteem you can get onto dodgy ground - like if one of them worries the other is doing better.
I felt pupil A was a bit better than pupil B the first week, but the second week pupil B seemed to do better than pupil A. Pupil A got a bit flushed and worried, so I can already see the possible problems, especially if one or either of them is at all competitive...
So you do need to keep your eye on the ball....
Violinia
I used to teach a couple of girls from chapel together (one of them has now dropped out due to a combination of not especially getting on with playing the flute and having a terrible instrument which her mum won't upgrade or have serviced, as well as already playing 3 other instruments so she didn't really have time or inclination to practice)
They paid £4.50 each for a half hour, I'd usually charge £6 for an individual half hour lesson.
It was harder work teaching two - probably is more so with children because they're so easily distractable. The main problem though was diametrically opposite strong and weak points; somewhat odd seeing as they both have pretty much the same musical background, and are of similar build, etc etc - grade 3 on piano, tall for their age (especially the younger), no experience on wind instruments.
One has good breath control, nice tone, seems to be picking up the technical stuff without too many probs (she's the one who is still learning) but struggling a little with reading the music, remembering which sharps/flats are in the key signature, has some rhythmical uncertainties (we now clap everything at least once before she plays it the first time, and often after the first time too) - the other has no problems with reading music or rhythm, but has breathy tone even on a decent flute, and was struggling to string more than two crotchets together without a huge gasping breath. Trying to address that range of problems and strengths was pretty hard in half an hour, especially with two girls who are friends and easily distracted by each other!
So... it can work, but be aware of the difficulties, especially with pupils who are ostensibly "at the same level" but have very different strengths and weaknesses.
They paid £4.50 each for a half hour, I'd usually charge £6 for an individual half hour lesson.
It was harder work teaching two - probably is more so with children because they're so easily distractable. The main problem though was diametrically opposite strong and weak points; somewhat odd seeing as they both have pretty much the same musical background, and are of similar build, etc etc - grade 3 on piano, tall for their age (especially the younger), no experience on wind instruments.
One has good breath control, nice tone, seems to be picking up the technical stuff without too many probs (she's the one who is still learning) but struggling a little with reading the music, remembering which sharps/flats are in the key signature, has some rhythmical uncertainties (we now clap everything at least once before she plays it the first time, and often after the first time too) - the other has no problems with reading music or rhythm, but has breathy tone even on a decent flute, and was struggling to string more than two crotchets together without a huge gasping breath. Trying to address that range of problems and strengths was pretty hard in half an hour, especially with two girls who are friends and easily distracted by each other!
So... it can work, but be aware of the difficulties, especially with pupils who are ostensibly "at the same level" but have very different strengths and weaknesses.
Yes in a way I think it could be more complicated teaching 2 adults than 2 children (I have to teach groups of 2 and 3 in schools), because adults can be more complicatedly competitive and may expect more complex things of themselves.
I hope it works out with my 2 (adults). The alternative is that they do half-hour individual lessons, and knowing me (old softie) I'll end up giving them longer so they'll end up with a 45 min lesson for £10.
Grrr...
Violinia
I hope it works out with my 2 (adults). The alternative is that they do half-hour individual lessons, and knowing me (old softie) I'll end up giving them longer so they'll end up with a 45 min lesson for £10.
Grrr...
Violinia
Hi Gazdude !
I teach privately 1-to-1 brass and recorders, and also large groups of recorders for a Music Service. Yes, teaching in groups can be hard work, especially with different abilities, ages, personalities etc as the others have said. It will suit some pupils and not others. The trick is, don't think of it as just a bigger individual lesson with each pupil only getting a portion of the time. Where possible - especially with children - they need to always be involved in doing something - otherwise they tend to get bored and disruptive. If you want one person to play a solo, then get the others involved by beating time, or actively listening for the answers to questions you've asked beforehand, such as "is it all the same dynamics/tempo?", "where does it get louder/faster?", "is it legato/staccato?", "what was the mood of the piece - sad/happy?".
I would say grab this opportunity to teach just 2 pupils at a time - it will give you confidence to go on to teaching larger groups. Try and get hold of as many duets and trios as possible - it will be great fun - which at the end of the day is what motivates them to practise.
I teach privately 1-to-1 brass and recorders, and also large groups of recorders for a Music Service. Yes, teaching in groups can be hard work, especially with different abilities, ages, personalities etc as the others have said. It will suit some pupils and not others. The trick is, don't think of it as just a bigger individual lesson with each pupil only getting a portion of the time. Where possible - especially with children - they need to always be involved in doing something - otherwise they tend to get bored and disruptive. If you want one person to play a solo, then get the others involved by beating time, or actively listening for the answers to questions you've asked beforehand, such as "is it all the same dynamics/tempo?", "where does it get louder/faster?", "is it legato/staccato?", "what was the mood of the piece - sad/happy?".
I would say grab this opportunity to teach just 2 pupils at a time - it will give you confidence to go on to teaching larger groups. Try and get hold of as many duets and trios as possible - it will be great fun - which at the end of the day is what motivates them to practise.
| QUOTE (cp697 @ Feb 28 2005, 08:24 AM) |
| Hi Gazdude ! I teach privately 1-to-1 brass and recorders, and also large groups of recorders for a Music Service. Yes, teaching in groups can be hard work, especially with different abilities, ages, personalities etc as the others have said. It will suit some pupils and not others. The trick is, don't think of it as just a bigger individual lesson with each pupil only getting a portion of the time. Where possible - especially with children - they need to always be involved in doing something - otherwise they tend to get bored and disruptive. If you want one person to play a solo, then get the others involved by beating time, or actively listening for the answers to questions you've asked beforehand, such as "is it all the same dynamics/tempo?", "where does it get louder/faster?", "is it legato/staccato?", "what was the mood of the piece - sad/happy?". I would say grab this opportunity to teach just 2 pupils at a time - it will give you confidence to go on to teaching larger groups. Try and get hold of as many duets and trios as possible - it will be great fun - which at the end of the day is what motivates them to practise. |
thanks for that cp!
| QUOTE (Violinia @ Feb 25 2005, 08:13 PM) |
| Yes in a way I think it could be more complicated teaching 2 adults than 2 children (I have to teach groups of 2 and 3 in schools), because adults can be more complicatedly competitive and may expect more complex things of themselves. |
Yes - I guess both groups have their plus and minus points!
Yes my group of 2 adults is getting really complicated now. One of them has decided to go for half-hour individual lessons till the other one sorts herself out, and now the other one is upset she might get left behind 
It's a minefield. Unless both adults can make exactly the same time every single lesson, and unless neither of them is competetive or insecure, it's probably not worth it. People lead such busy and complicated lives these days...
Aurgh.
Violinia
It's a minefield. Unless both adults can make exactly the same time every single lesson, and unless neither of them is competetive or insecure, it's probably not worth it. People lead such busy and complicated lives these days...
Aurgh.
Violinia
Yep... I guess it goes for any group where there is discrepancy in levels 
| QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Feb 28 2005, 07:13 PM) |
| Yep... I guess it goes for any group where there is discrepancy in levels |
...so spare a thought for those of us who teach class music to groups of 30-35 at a time! The problems are enormous - discipline, keeping everyone focused and learning the whole time, making sure the able ones are stretched while also providing achievable work for the less able...PHEW. I'm doing this 31 times a week at the moment, and have reached exhaustion level, which is why my doctor's just signed me off for a month...
Would anyone ever advise doing group lessons for beginners?
I recently took on two sisters, aged 10 and 12, who had never played a note before. I found almost immediately that they would have to be taught individually as one learnt significantly faster than the other.
I'm probably stating the obvious here, but you do learn as you go along with teaching!
I recently took on two sisters, aged 10 and 12, who had never played a note before. I found almost immediately that they would have to be taught individually as one learnt significantly faster than the other.
I'm probably stating the obvious here, but you do learn as you go along with teaching!
Mixed ability is very difficult, especially if you've got one or more beginners.
Last term I was supposed to take on a complete beginner on the violin and teach her along with 2 others who'd been learning two or three years. I mixed up the groups a bit and tried teaching her alongside the slowest of the others, but in the end managed to persuade her to persuade her parents to pay for individual lessons until she's reached a certain standard.
3 beginners is a lot easier than 1 beginner plus 2 intermediates.
She's now learning on her own and progressing very nicely because I can pay attention to all the details.
A Head of Music I know said "but aren't they supposed to learn better in groups"?
Hmm. Yes, group lessons can be great, but preferably when backed up by individual lessons too.
Especially with violin.
Violinia
Last term I was supposed to take on a complete beginner on the violin and teach her along with 2 others who'd been learning two or three years. I mixed up the groups a bit and tried teaching her alongside the slowest of the others, but in the end managed to persuade her to persuade her parents to pay for individual lessons until she's reached a certain standard.
3 beginners is a lot easier than 1 beginner plus 2 intermediates.
She's now learning on her own and progressing very nicely because I can pay attention to all the details.
A Head of Music I know said "but aren't they supposed to learn better in groups"?
Hmm. Yes, group lessons can be great, but preferably when backed up by individual lessons too.
Especially with violin.
Violinia
I saw this work brilliantly in with a group of three 5-year old beginner guitarists.
Attention spans are short with this age group. So instead of a concentrated lesson one-on-one (of say 20 minutes), the lesson time lasted about 40-50 minutes. The good thing was that each child could be given one-on-one time in smallv chunks. Those waiting for their turn would use the balance of time to absorb what they had personally learned while also absorbing information from the experience of the other students. Sometimes a child even snoozed (!) - but the point was that the method did improve total concentration time per child, while also increasing familiarisation time.
The issue of mixed ABILITY LEVELS (and mixed rates of learning) could be problematic. Will a child of apparently less ability progress more quickly by also having the opportunity to watch role models? Or will he/she be discouraged if a widening gap is perceived? Will the teacher hold back the faster learner to minimise the impact on the slower learner? All situational questions, that can be addressed by swapping students between groups.
Teaching students at DIFFERENT GRADES did not appear to be a problem. Children can be most interested in and even inspired what others are doing. Mixed grades within a group can also go a long way to mask variable learning rates and abilities.
The bottom line for me is that teaching of PERFORMING to a soloist needs to be one-to- one, so in a group situation, instructing will generally be by rotation. The reason is that each individual student has their own particular technical and artistic needs. "Weighted average" sound is not the goal. As students needed more instruction time, I think the group concept would break down - you would not want three adult students in a room 2-3 hours a week just to achieve the equivalent of one hour continuous one-to-one.
On the other hand, the teaching of Theory to a class all at one has worked very well for me when a student. This is most efficient use of tutor time, and very cost effective.
Is ABRSM aware of any research that has been performed on this interesting question.
Attention spans are short with this age group. So instead of a concentrated lesson one-on-one (of say 20 minutes), the lesson time lasted about 40-50 minutes. The good thing was that each child could be given one-on-one time in smallv chunks. Those waiting for their turn would use the balance of time to absorb what they had personally learned while also absorbing information from the experience of the other students. Sometimes a child even snoozed (!) - but the point was that the method did improve total concentration time per child, while also increasing familiarisation time.
The issue of mixed ABILITY LEVELS (and mixed rates of learning) could be problematic. Will a child of apparently less ability progress more quickly by also having the opportunity to watch role models? Or will he/she be discouraged if a widening gap is perceived? Will the teacher hold back the faster learner to minimise the impact on the slower learner? All situational questions, that can be addressed by swapping students between groups.
Teaching students at DIFFERENT GRADES did not appear to be a problem. Children can be most interested in and even inspired what others are doing. Mixed grades within a group can also go a long way to mask variable learning rates and abilities.
The bottom line for me is that teaching of PERFORMING to a soloist needs to be one-to- one, so in a group situation, instructing will generally be by rotation. The reason is that each individual student has their own particular technical and artistic needs. "Weighted average" sound is not the goal. As students needed more instruction time, I think the group concept would break down - you would not want three adult students in a room 2-3 hours a week just to achieve the equivalent of one hour continuous one-to-one.
On the other hand, the teaching of Theory to a class all at one has worked very well for me when a student. This is most efficient use of tutor time, and very cost effective.
Is ABRSM aware of any research that has been performed on this interesting question.
| QUOTE |
| The issue of mixed ABILITY LEVELS (and mixed rates of learning) could be problematic. Will a child of apparently less ability progress more quickly by also having the opportunity to watch role models? Or will he/she be discouraged if a widening gap is perceived? Will the teacher hold back the faster learner to minimise the impact on the slower learner? All situational questions, that can be addressed by swapping students between groups. |
Yes, this was the problem I had, the younger pupil became immediately discouraged by seeing her older sister progress at a faster rate (The older sister was a hard worker and the yournger sister the more creative and expressive - so the younger one felt very put out by this and the older one felt frustrated at having to wait for me to explain things) In order for them to not be put off each other I seperated them initially for a couple of weeks to get the basics under their fingers (I'm teaching guitar by the way) And I now do 15 mins of individual lessons then we all play together for another 15 minutes. I find this is working really well, as they feel they get time to absorb things without distraction and then they get to show off how much they've learnt when we all play together.
Incidentally - what ensemble music do you use for these young children? I tend to take nursery rhymes and popular songs and arrange them myself
| QUOTE |
| Teaching students at DIFFERENT GRADES did not appear to be a problem. Children can be most interested in and even inspired what others are doing. Mixed grades within a group can also go a long way to mask variable learning rates and abilities. |
How so? I just don't see this. If you have 2 teenagers for half an hour 10 lessons a term, how could you possibly teach them to 2 different grades? You'd be teaching 2 different pieces and 2 different sets of scales in each lesson - sorry, not possible, unless one of them doesn't mind watching while you show the other one stuff. In my experience they get fidgety and bored unless they're actually playing or being directly interracted with. I once tried getting one to play and another to assess and it didn't work at all because the assessor refused to be the slightest bit critical!
| QUOTE |
| All situational questions, that can be addressed by swapping students between groups. |
Uh, no thanks. The timetabling problems would be horrendous, especially when you're already scheduling lessons so as not to clash with other music lessons!
Are you a peri yourself, or have you just observed peris?
In an ideal world, everything you suggest would be possible; however, the reality is broomcupboards to teach in, missing stands, forgotten instruments, forgotten music, out-of-tune violins that need instant tuning and late arrivals due to teachers not letting pupisl leave on time for their lessons.
It's as much as you can do not to succumb to nervous apoplexy sometimes let alone teach 2 different grades in the same lesson and mix up the groups...
Aurrgh.
Violinia
| QUOTE (Violinia @ Mar 2 2005, 03:32 PM) | ||
How so? I just don't see this. If you have 2 teenagers for half an hour 10 lessons a term, how could you possibly teach them to 2 different grades? You'd be teaching 2 different pieces and 2 different sets of scales in each lesson - sorry, not possible, unless one of them doesn't mind watching while you show the other one stuff. |
This is exactly what did happen for most of my secondary school time. Generally we each got a 15 minute lesson and spent the other 15 minutes in a practice room warming up/practising. The times when I was actually sharing a half-hour lesson were more beneficial in some ways, but I was never with someone who was exactly the same standard, and sometimes not even close.
Sarah, this may actually be easier with flute than violin - violin can be such a complicated instrument! You've got to tune it, wind up the bow, put shoulder rests/pads on before you can even start...
Violinia
Violinia
that WAS on violin. when I was an absolute beginner (age 7 or so) I had group lessons with half a dozen or more other children, gradually numbers decreased as some dropped out, then by the age of 9 or 10 it was 2 or 3, didn't really share a lesson (although didn't have a whole half hour as I remember) when I was 11, and was playing grade 4-5 stuff, having passed grade 3 with distinction. went to secondary school (and also sadly at the same time got ME) and had shared lessons all through till the end of the 5th year if I recall correctly. didn't progress that fast partly due to change of teachers every year and partly due to illness: did grade 6 in 6-1 I think, and had a lesson to myself during 6th form, then did viola for a year in 6-2.
| QUOTE (George Burrell @ Mar 2 2005, 12:22 AM) |
| Please note the following regarding group tuition from my original post: (A) I saw this work brilliantly in with a group of three 5-year old beginner guitarists. (  As students needed more instruction time, I think the group concept would break down - you would not want three adult students in a room 2-3 hours a week just to achieve the equivalent of one hour continuous one-to-one. |
I feel that teenagers would fall into category (
.There are a range of other issues that would be discussed if we had access to research on group teaching of the young. But the "security" of being in a group and increased socialisation would be additional benefits that have not been mentioned to date. I suppose Suzuki would have something to say about this!
As for viability of swapping of individuals among groups .. building of compatible groups would simply be one of the skills of a teacher committed to the concept. With experience, little swapping may be required, but again it has been done before. We are not inventing anything here.
I repeat that I have seen it work - and I believe that sometimes it may be worth trying (say) if a young child is not achieving at solo lessons. The cost to the parent may be reduced and it may encourage a child to continue who previously wanted to give up.
| QUOTE |
| I suppose Suzuki would have something to say about this! |
Sigh - Suzuki gave his pupils individual lessons and group lessons. He was a believer in the combination of both.
| QUOTE |
| As for viability of swapping of individuals among groups .. building of compatible groups would simply be one of the skills of a teacher committed to the concept. |
I'm sorry but I don't think you have a very realistic idea view of the realities of instrumental teaching in broom cupboards in secondary schools today, with teachers who sometimes don't even let the kids come to their violin lesson because they're doing a test.
In the schools I teach in, it's almost always the pupils I teach individually who progress the fastest. They do all come together for a group session as well, where they play lots of eclectic repertoire including jazz, improvisation and a varierty of ethnic styles.
Group teaching was never meant to be the only lesson students had - according either to Suzuki or to Sheila Nelson, who also recommended a combination of both.
Sarah you've done very well with violin under those circumstances - well done. Sorry to hear you've had ME and hope you're over the worst of it now.
Violinia
Thanks Violinia.
No it wasn't ideal... I think it does depend on the style of the teacher, and how much time is available for the lessons. My first teacher was Caroline Lumsden (who you may have heard of possibly? - she's Anita Hewitt-Jones' daughter) She wrote the Musicland books. We actually used those books in their original handwritten photostat-form! I think some methods suit the group learning situation better than others, and someone like Caroline who's very good at getting people started, works brilliantly with youngsters, and is one of those inspirational people when it comes to getting people going on an instrument, managed really well. That said, I don't doubt that individual lessons with her or a combination would have been more beneficial than entirely group lessons! I think the teaching at secondary school suffered more than anything from a change of teachers practically every year. Oh well!
Sadly I still struggle with the ME, but life goes on!! There are worse things to have.
No it wasn't ideal... I think it does depend on the style of the teacher, and how much time is available for the lessons. My first teacher was Caroline Lumsden (who you may have heard of possibly? - she's Anita Hewitt-Jones' daughter) She wrote the Musicland books. We actually used those books in their original handwritten photostat-form! I think some methods suit the group learning situation better than others, and someone like Caroline who's very good at getting people started, works brilliantly with youngsters, and is one of those inspirational people when it comes to getting people going on an instrument, managed really well. That said, I don't doubt that individual lessons with her or a combination would have been more beneficial than entirely group lessons! I think the teaching at secondary school suffered more than anything from a change of teachers practically every year. Oh well!
Sadly I still struggle with the ME, but life goes on!! There are worse things to have.
Cyrilla
I've seen you teach - you are fantastic with large groups and I picked up some really useful Kodaly tips from you. I do hope you are able to re-charge your batteries and go back to work with renewed energy soon - when it's stopped snowing ! Last year, as well as my studying, I taught whole classes recorders in schools - but for only a portion of the week - nothing like the amount you have been doing. An even then, I thought I was never going to make it to the end of the year! Every day feels like a week, doesn't it, when coping with disruptive children. I take my hat off to the regular school teachers. I've taken the easy way out this year and am just doing the "nice" (!) groups of 11 or so children at the Saturday morning school, which is actually a joy!
Chris
I've seen you teach - you are fantastic with large groups and I picked up some really useful Kodaly tips from you. I do hope you are able to re-charge your batteries and go back to work with renewed energy soon - when it's stopped snowing ! Last year, as well as my studying, I taught whole classes recorders in schools - but for only a portion of the week - nothing like the amount you have been doing. An even then, I thought I was never going to make it to the end of the year! Every day feels like a week, doesn't it, when coping with disruptive children. I take my hat off to the regular school teachers. I've taken the easy way out this year and am just doing the "nice" (!) groups of 11 or so children at the Saturday morning school, which is actually a joy!
Chris
Chris, thank you for the kind and supportive words!
When/where did you see me teach???
I don't have a problem with disruptive children as such - they're always pretty good with me - but it is just so exhausting and draining being a 'performer' all the time and balancing the education of so many individuals. Being a perfectionist doesn't help! Especially when you know that these children only get 30 minutes of music a week you feel very bound to make every second count...
I too do nice small groups at Guildhall, and it is very rewarding to teach small groups of able children after a week of teaching 30 mixed-abilities. It would just be nicer if we had a decent working environment instead of being caged underground like troglodytes in horrible airless, windowless caves.
I have certainly got to do less than I'm doing at the moment and want very much to do more advisory/consultancy work - so if anyone would like to employ me for INSET or other similar, please let me know!!
When/where did you see me teach???
I don't have a problem with disruptive children as such - they're always pretty good with me - but it is just so exhausting and draining being a 'performer' all the time and balancing the education of so many individuals. Being a perfectionist doesn't help! Especially when you know that these children only get 30 minutes of music a week you feel very bound to make every second count...
I too do nice small groups at Guildhall, and it is very rewarding to teach small groups of able children after a week of teaching 30 mixed-abilities. It would just be nicer if we had a decent working environment instead of being caged underground like troglodytes in horrible airless, windowless caves.
I have certainly got to do less than I'm doing at the moment and want very much to do more advisory/consultancy work - so if anyone would like to employ me for INSET or other similar, please let me know!!
| QUOTE (Violinia @ Mar 2 2005, 03:32 PM) |
| the reality is broomcupboards to teach in, missing stands, forgotten instruments, forgotten music, out-of-tune violins that need instant tuning and late arrivals due to teachers not letting pupisl leave on time for their lessons. |
I agree with Violinia. I used to teach groups of violin and viola beginners. It was a nightmare - twenty minutes to teach a group of 5 beginners, who often arrived late or didn't arrive at all, forgot books, brought violins with three strings... By the time the 5th violin was tuned, the first needed tuning again. It got easier as the term went on - one or two from each group decided to leave. The children who progress the fastest are the ones receiving individual tuition.
Ah well, at least none of you seem to have been asked to teach serveral different types of instrument in groups. As an ex- student taught under these circumstances I assure you, that that really is fun! Especially when the said teacher wasn't a flute expert, and spent most of the time with his pet clarinettist/saxophonist.
I never minded listening to other people though(meant I didn't have to play in front of everyone else, though I wasn't quite so nervous back then), particularly when I went into secondary school, and (being around Grade 2/3 level at the time) was really inspired by the Grade 5 flautist I was grouped with. Being pared with beginners even later after that was awful though, I couldn't bear the sound... and people say beginner violinists sound bad...!
I never minded listening to other people though(meant I didn't have to play in front of everyone else, though I wasn't quite so nervous back then), particularly when I went into secondary school, and (being around Grade 2/3 level at the time) was really inspired by the Grade 5 flautist I was grouped with. Being pared with beginners even later after that was awful though, I couldn't bear the sound... and people say beginner violinists sound bad...!
| QUOTE (tamsin @ Mar 6 2005, 08:21 PM) |
| Ah well, at least none of you seem to have been asked to teach several different types of instrument in groups. As an ex- student taught under these circumstances I assure you, that that really is fun! I never minded listening to other people though(meant I didn't have to play in front of everyone else, though I wasn't quite so nervous back then), particularly when I went into secondary school, and (being around Grade 2/3 level at the time) was really inspired by the Grade 5 flautist I was grouped with. |
Here is an example of what I was talking about.. students of different grades in the one group lesson, and gaining some reward. In particular, a Grade 2/3 student gaining some idea of what lay in the future.
[BTW, in response to some comment made earlier. in suggesting group learning, I was assuming the teacher would have a space bigger than a "broom cupboard" to teach the group. Also I was assuming all the usual resourcing criteria would apply including suitable tutor books, suitable instruments, suitable chairs, etc etc.
I also made it clear that it appeared to be particularly suitable for learners and the young - so not necessarily for a secondary school environment, where tuition time may be displacing other classroom time, and where you might find more mature and advanced students in general.]
| QUOTE |
| BTW, in response to some comment made earlier. in suggesting group learning, I was assuming the teacher would have a space bigger than a "broom cupboard" to teach the group. Also I was assuming all the usual resourcing criteria would apply including suitable tutor books, suitable instruments, suitable chairs, etc etc. |
You are joking, aren't you??? Suitable books??? Who's supposed to be supplying these??? The school???
In the real world, the peri has to persuade the pupils to get their parents to buy the books. If the book costs more than £3.00 the parents are usually not keen. The grade selection books cost £3.00 - no problem. Any other book costs £5.00-£10.00 - usually big problem.
Chairs? What chairs?
Suitable instruments? You mean school instruments? Often cracked, missing pegs, bridge too low, missing strings etc etc etc
Child's own instrument? Hmm. When the child begins to grow out of their violin, try telling them their parent needs to buy them a bigger one. Big silence, then, in quavering voice: "how much is it going to cost?" Answer: "between £60 and £75" (for the absolute cheapest ever, incl bow and case). Child: "gulp, er, I'll ask my Mum." Following week - me: "did you ask your Mum about a new violin?" Child: "er, yes. She said she can't afford it until next year..."
And on, and on..
Violinia
QUOTE from Violinia
In the real world, the peri has to persuade the pupils to get their parents to buy the books. If the book costs more than £3.00 the parents are usually not keen. The grade selection books cost £3.00 - no problem. Any other book costs £5.00-£10.00 - usually big problem.
In one school I work in I have been told to photocopy music as most of the children are 'too poor to be able to afford to buy it'. Yet some of them go on holiday to very exotice locations; one child,for example, went to lapland for a week at Xmas and one child is currently in Hong Kong for 3 weeks! Are they really too poor to spend £7 or £8 on a book? I have not refused to photocopy music, merely reminded the school that since they do the photocopying on their machine they are in breach of the copyright act, not me. However, they usually lose the sheets I give them (they can't even be bothered to buy a folder to put them in) and consequently progress is very slow. The school is very keen on giving poorer children a chance to learn music but it is very hard to do it on a very tight budget and most of them, sadly, will not be successful.
In the real world, the peri has to persuade the pupils to get their parents to buy the books. If the book costs more than £3.00 the parents are usually not keen. The grade selection books cost £3.00 - no problem. Any other book costs £5.00-£10.00 - usually big problem.
In one school I work in I have been told to photocopy music as most of the children are 'too poor to be able to afford to buy it'. Yet some of them go on holiday to very exotice locations; one child,for example, went to lapland for a week at Xmas and one child is currently in Hong Kong for 3 weeks! Are they really too poor to spend £7 or £8 on a book? I have not refused to photocopy music, merely reminded the school that since they do the photocopying on their machine they are in breach of the copyright act, not me. However, they usually lose the sheets I give them (they can't even be bothered to buy a folder to put them in) and consequently progress is very slow. The school is very keen on giving poorer children a chance to learn music but it is very hard to do it on a very tight budget and most of them, sadly, will not be successful.
They probably can afford to, but so many parents view it as such a low priority...
And it's often true that the richest are those who are most tight with their money... I worked in admin for a Saturday music school, and the ones who paid late or complained about fee rises were ALWAYS the parents with big flashy jobs who could've afforded 3 times as much. One lady (who was a hospital consultant, MARRIED to a hospital consultant, and whose home income must've been more than my dad earned in a decade) complained bitterly and withdrew her child when fees went up by £70 a term... or £7 a week... for a Drama programme that lasted most of the day... and that had been hugely underpriced in the first place...
And it's often true that the richest are those who are most tight with their money... I worked in admin for a Saturday music school, and the ones who paid late or complained about fee rises were ALWAYS the parents with big flashy jobs who could've afforded 3 times as much. One lady (who was a hospital consultant, MARRIED to a hospital consultant, and whose home income must've been more than my dad earned in a decade) complained bitterly and withdrew her child when fees went up by £70 a term... or £7 a week... for a Drama programme that lasted most of the day... and that had been hugely underpriced in the first place...
| QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Mar 9 2005, 04:12 PM) |
| They probably can afford to, but so many parents view it as such a low priority... And it's often true that the richest are those who are most tight with their money... I worked in admin for a Saturday music school, and the ones who paid late or complained about fee rises were ALWAYS the parents with big flashy jobs who could've afforded 3 times as much. One lady (who was a hospital consultant, MARRIED to a hospital consultant, and whose home income must've been more than my dad earned in a decade) complained bitterly and withdrew her child when fees went up by £70 a term... or £7 a week... for a Drama programme that lasted most of the day... and that had been hugely underpriced in the first place... |
It's true - the richest are often the meanest. In some cases this is why they are rich in the first place!
The type of parent you refer to knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
I must admit that I have been surprised at times to see this kind of person acquiring a cheap second-hand piano and putting it out amongst quite luxurious furniture - when to be honest the money for a decent new or slightly used upright would have been no problem at all.
Yet they prove their point. The child is expected to motivate him or her self to do the practice on an unresponsive instrument - and the expenditure on lessons is ultimately saved because "they could not be bothered doing their practice"!
Getting back to the original question - I imagine that some of these mean parents would be very impressed with a Group Teaching option if you could demonstrated it would cost them a dime less than Individual teaching! Also the group environment might make them easier to motivate.
From what I've observed, I'd say group teaching can work very well, IN the right circumstances. I think it does depend on the person, too-it's deciding whether someone is going to be motivated by the fun of learning in a group, against having all my individual attention which can lead to faster progress. I don't personally think 2 constitutes a group as such, and can create more problems with differing ability, and motivation, than a larger group. I'm sticking my neck out a bit here as I teach solely individual pupils, but do work with other instrumental teachers who specialise in group teaching. I don't see why having a group lesson would in itself solve the problems of parents not seeing the value of having proper instruments, books, etc. And yes, it is amazing that parents will spend money on lessons, but not on getting the piano tuned, etc . I once taught one student at school who didn't even have a piano, only a keyboard which didn't work and eventually packed up completely, so they had nothing to practice on at all!Despite repeated requests to the parents, nothing happened-the best bit is that eventually they decided they'd rather their child had lessons outside school , - because they didn't think she was making enough progress!
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