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PlinkPlonkMan
Hello biggrin.gif
This question is mainly for those who have achieved the higher grades I suppose, but please do not feel this question is solely for them...
I am taking grade 2 soon (piano) and obviously when learning it takes a long time to learn to play a piece of music from the exam syllabus....
For those who have higher grades how long does it take you to learn pieces....My question would be how long would it take you to learn a grade 1 piece....grade 2 piece...... grade 3 piece......... grade 4 piec etc....to grade 8 piece.
Hope my question makes sense...BFN Mike biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
saxlover
well i started grade 6 pieces in late october,and am taking the exam next week.so they are obviously exam standard. i think when you are at the higher grades, the ability to learn pieces quicker and without an aid of a teacher all the time, is bigger. whereas if you at grade 2 ish you might need constant guidance from a teacher
Booney
I did grade 4 in November and started preparing for my grade 5 pieces almost immediately - have got two of them to standard my music teacher says would give me a pass, but would I am not happy with then yet and will spend time polishing them up.

I feel more comfortable with the grade 5 pieces than I did with the grade 4 ones, but I think this is because I my practise techniques have improved.
Fred
When I did the lower grades it took me about a week to learn pieces, or 2 weeks to get it to exam standard. Now I am doing grade 6 and the numbers are the same, but the weeks have changed to months sad.gif . Maybe this reflects more on my age than the difficulty of pieces (I restarted last year after a 15ish year break - I was a teenager when I did the early grades!).

I don't know how typical this is. I have learned a couple of grade 7 pieces and they took about the same time (1-3 months, depending on standard of performance required). I expect grade 8 pieces to take longer, partly because they are (long), but also because of the level of finesse required by the grade, and technical difficulties to overcome.

I have just started learning my G6 exam pieces, and expect to take the exam this summer, but if they aren't quite up to scratch by application time I may delay until Autumn.

Good luck with your playing, PPM, and with your exam!

Fred
Silver pianist
Gosh. You are all so fast. Grades 2 to 5 took me one full term with the exam in the second term. i.e. start Sept, exam following March

Grade 6 took me 2 terms with the exam in the third. i.e. start Sept, exam in June/July

Thought that was normal. Oh dear!
Gae
I've been playing for 25 years and I would say I can sight read pieces pretty accurately up to about Grade 6 depending on the speed. For Grade 7 and 8, I can sight read the slower pieces as written and attempt the faster pieces at a slower speed. If I try to sight read the higher Grades at top speed the pieces come out very messy and it is also very tiring...you need intense concentration to do this.
At the moment I am sight reading all the piano accompaniments for the violin grades 1-3 that I am practicing...they are pretty easy to play but enjoyable nonetheless.
Although being able to sight read to a high standard is very nice there is also a down side to it. This being that you tend to play a piece once or twice without getting to know it really well and without getting into the heart or soul of the piece. This is why I tend to record everything I play so I can keep listening to it and get to know the piece that way. If I really like a piece I will go back and enjoy playing it again, possibly even memorizing it.
With regards to learning the higher grades, I recently memorized the Grade 5 Sonatina Rondo by Hook in about 1 hour. I would still have to spend some hours practicing Grade 7 to 8 pieces because they always take longer to learn to play properly. Not only are they more technically demanding but musically more complex too.

Gae
Jen W
QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Feb 26 2005, 11:47 PM)
Grades 2 to 5 took me one full term with the exam in the second term.  i.e. start Sept, exam following March


Well, perhaps it's our age, because I don't think this is unreasonable at all!!

I started my grade 4 pieces at the beginning of this term and am taking the exam in the summer (I need this much time to over-prepare - if that's possible - in order to make allowance for being overwhelmed by nerves in the exam...) and if I'm lucky enough to pass, I'll be doing the same with my grade 5 pieces next year.
Silver pianist
QUOTE (Jen W @ Feb 27 2005, 09:10 AM)
[[/QUOTE]
Well, perhaps it's our age, because I don't think this is unreasonable at all!!


Yes, I am sure it is. That makes me feel a bit better!
sbhoa
I started the first of my grade 8 pieces at the end of August 2004.
On the last page now....
saxlover
getting there sbhoa! biggrin.gif
AnotherPianist
How long it takes you to learn the pieces depends on a number of things:

1) How well you want to be able to play the piece when it's finished (just to pass, distinction, better than Alfred Brendel (I wish wink.gif) etc).

2) How good you are relative to the exam when you take it, for example I've been playing for just under four years now and did grade 4 a few months ago. I could, should I have wished to, have been playing for four years and only just done grade one (in which case the pieces would have been relatively a lot easier to learn); or I could have chosen to do grade 8 instead of grade 4 now (in which case it would have taken me a year just to learn three pieces and not much else and been considerably more difficult).

As you get higher up the mark schemes each extra mark gets harder and harder to get: the differnce between 23 and 24 might be to even out a passage of quavers in one bar which is technical work and although it requires time and effort is just a matter of practise. The differnce between 28 and 29 might be to make your interpretation really convincing and enjoyable to the examiner, this might mean going through the piece considering the weighting on every note, the feeling to be conveyed by every phrase etc. and will take a lot longer. It's also subjective and some people seem naturally better than others at communicating, it takes time to develop this skill and it's not something that one can just learn by doing some exercises it has to develop over time.

I wil usually spend a good few months on my exam pieces but will be able to play them to a passable standard after one month (the last exam being grade 4). I then spend a lot of time getting everything as perfect as possible, it is this that takes most of the time in preparing a piece so if what was required is to pass then a month to be prepared but to aim for the highest marks a lot longer: it's never ending! I am one of those people who like to over prepare for exams (not necessarily a good idea) and will leave plenty of time and prepare the pieces to way over the standard needed in the hope that despite inevitable nerves I will still get high marks. Now between grades 4 and 5 I am working on grade 5 and 6 repertoire so that when I do get the grade 5 pieces I will be able to do them well because I'm used to playing the harder pieces (I've always done this for exams) you could argue that I'm taking grade 5 when I should be doing grade 6 or whatever but this is just the way I like to use the exams: to be comfortably within my abilities rather than to be pushing what I can do.

As for how the time taken to learn pieces changes when you get higher up, logically I guess if you're going at the right speed perhaps each grade should be equally hard to you at the time of doing it than the previous ones were (otherwise you should have more experience before attempting it). However I'm not sure that this is necessarily the case in practice just because as the grades get higher and closer to fulfiling the potential of the person doing them it may get harder to progress further. Or maybe if someone started the grades a little earlier than perhaps they were ready but then slows down later (or just catches up with themself so to speak) they will find the grades easier as they go up.

Maybe at grade 8 people wil find playing the pieces technically easier but it will still take them longer to complete them because they need to put in so much more artistically which takes time. An example, my boyfriend has recently done a diploma playing the Pathetique sonata, when he first picked up the piece he sightread it through such that the untrained ear wouldn't really notice there was anything wrong with it (a performance with which the average grade 1 pupil would be delighted with if it was a the standard of a grade 1 piece); he then spent at least two years working on both technical issues and artistic interpretation of the piece. My (non-musical) mother couldn't tell that it was any different to when he started playing it (fortunately for his sanity I, his piano teacher and two ABRSM examiners could! (not that the examiners heard the first rendition but I'm sure they would have noticed if they had!)).

So basically it depends if you're equally on top of each exam when you come to tackling it and you want equal marks then they'll be equally difficult. If the exams are getting harder and harder they will continue to do so until one takes some more time out to get more on top of them before proceeding to take the next one. If they're getting easier and easier, and one is getting marks that are high enough for one to be happy with then it's worth considering going faster.... One thing that I would guess does switch as one gets higher up the grades though is the ratio betwen the amount of time taken physically getting to grips with the technical side of the piece and being able to get through it; to the time spent on interpretation of the piece and artistry.
Jen W
QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Feb 27 2005, 03:54 PM)
I wil usually spend a good few months on my exam pieces but will be able to play them to a passable standard after one month (the last exam being grade 4).  I then spend a lot of time getting everything as perfect as possible

AnotherPianist - do you learn other new stuff while you are perfecting your exam pieces & so on? I'm feeling a bit under pressure from my teacher to learn something else - a grade 5 piece in fact - while I haven't really got to the 'perfecting' stage with my pieces, not to mention sight reading & aural. I'm doing a lot of sight reading, so am encountering other music, but haven't been actually putting much time into any particular piece.

(Hope this isn't deviating too far the original topic, btw)

AnotherPianist
QUOTE (Jen W @ Feb 28 2005, 05:38 PM)
AnotherPianist - do you learn other new stuff while you are perfecting your exam pieces & so on?

In theory yes I probably should, in practise no not really! I tend to do a lot of sightreading around this time and learning some pieces just to being able to read them reasonably well and move on. I find it's a good time to do this, when I have something else to focus on to perfect, as I usually want to spend a little too long on between-exam pieces to get them to a high standard (and then spend my time worrying that I'm not playing enough pieces because I'm spending too long on each one rolleyes.gif). Basically I cover quite a few pieces around just the level that I can sightread but not with instruction on how to play them, just playing them through a couple of times, mainly as a sightreading exercise, and I leave polishing or slightly polishing other pieces to a time when there are no exam pieces to polish.

I find that if I don't learn a new piece for a long time and hence don't do the reading phase I can get bored of playing the same piece(s) over again for minor improvements. Yet if I don't polish pieces for a while and just sightread (well, do a better job than that but not polished) I start to feel like I can't play anything properly at all... I think it's a fine balance between the two, on the one hand there is feeling that one can't play more than a few pieces because all the pieces take a long time to learn if they have to be polished; and on the other hand there is the feeling that one can't play anything well because one hasn't polished any pieces recently. That's my experience anyway.

I posted a thread on the topic of this balance quite some time ago and got some helpful comments although the conclusion was that it is a fine balance and there's no right answer (this is where an experienced teacher comes in...), and I was thinking of doing so again with a slightly more direct question since it's bothering me again and there are quite a few new people around who may have something to add.

I don't know if that answers your question, I hope it helps in some way smile.gif.
Silver pianist
QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Feb 27 2005, 03:54 PM)















just because as the grades get higher and closer to fulfiling the potential of the person doing them it may get harder to progress further.  

I've obviously fulfilled my potential then! sad.gif sad.gif
AnotherPianist
QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Feb 28 2005, 07:11 PM)
I've obviously fulfilled my potential then! sad.gif  sad.gif

No, not at all, I'm sure that you will continue to improve smile.gif. That was merely a suggestion of one reason that it could become more difficult to progress if one is nearer to fulfilling one's potential then it would be harder to progress. That doesn't mean either that one can't progress or that one has fulfilled one's potential if one slows down.
Silver pianist
QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Feb 28 2005, 07:19 PM)
QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Feb 28 2005, 07:11 PM)
I've obviously fulfilled my potential then! sad.gif  sad.gif

No, not at all, I'm sure that you will continue to improve smile.gif.

I was pulling your leg!

Seriously though, I wish I could learn more quickly and that I was 15 and not 55.

It is all very interesting and I am sure that you are right: that learning a piece is different from learning a piece is different from learning a piece..etc etc....depends on how you define "learning" and to what standard you are aiming to get it to.

Have just read your new thread and will give it some thought. What I will say now, and this is something that I have said before, and that is that in all my grades I have always had one or two fun (often easier ) pieces on the go at the same time. Could not bear to do just exam pieces. This also forced me to let them breathe a bit, otherwise I would have slogged away at them and done nothing else. And of course a lot of practice time is spent doing scales. I am slow at learning them as well and was never a grade ahead in them as I should have been..
AnotherPianist
But it looked so tragic with all of those sad smilies!

QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Feb 28 2005, 10:05 PM)
Seriously though, I wish I could learn more quickly and that I was 15 and not 55.

Hmm, I think that from reading your posts it seems that you're getting a lot more enjoyment out of playing the piano than the average 15 year old (after all, that's what's important smile.gif) so maybe it would be a bad thing to be 15!

QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Feb 28 2005, 10:05 PM)
It is all very interesting and I am sure that you are right: that learning a piece is different from learning a piece is different from learning a piece..etc etc....depends on how you define "learning" and to what standard you are aiming to get it to.

I feel in a way that improving in playing the piano is about learning to learn pieces well and more efficiently (or a harder piece with the same efficiency). I'm not, of course, saying that speed of learning a piece is the most important: the end result is what really matters. When thinking about the question though what makes a grade 8 pianist better than a grade 1 pianist, developed artistry is certainly in there as a major factor but obviously to be able to learn a grade 8 piece in the same time someone else learns a grade 1 piece (or even slightly longer) implies that the grade 8 player is much more fluent at picking up piece, reading and translating what is read into playing notes on the piano. They can learn passages more quickly and could probably (hopefully) learn the grade 1 piece the other person is playing to a higher standard to them in a matter of hours, not months! So I guess, in my mind at least, being a better pianist is about being able not only to play pieces well but to be able to do so in a shorter time.

QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Feb 28 2005, 10:05 PM)
Have just read your new thread and will give it some thought.  What I will say now, and this is something that I have said before, and that is that in all my grades I  have always had one or two fun (often easier ) pieces on the go at the same time.  Could not bear to do just exam pieces.  This also forced me to let them breathe a bit, otherwise I would have slogged away at them and done nothing else.  

Thanks my new thread seems a little unpopular at the moment! You say you couldn't bear to do just exam pieces, why is this? Do you not like them or is it just that you like quite a bit of variety?

QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Feb 28 2005, 10:05 PM)
I am slow at learning them as well and was never a grade ahead in them as I should have been..

I don't think that many people are, I tend to play the odd scale off the higher grades if it seems exciting (I shall prepare myself for odd looks now) but I certainly don't learn all of the grade 6 scales before doing grade 5!
Jen W
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QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Feb 28 2005, 06:46 PM)
I don't know if that answers your question, I hope it helps in some way smile.gif.

Yes, thanks very much for your thoughts on that...there is a balance to be struck, isn't there? I do enjoy playing lots of new pieces which I can sight read reasonably well, but not have to polish, but I think I would find starting a new piece at a higher grade a bit too demanding when I'm trying to pull all the exam 'threads' together. I thought maybe now would be a good time to look at some technical studies (which I've managed to avoid so far dry.gif ).
sarah-flute
I guess different people will also find different things easy/hard... for instance, I'm good at scales - I can play all of them up to grade 5 ish, and large numbers of them up to grade 8. But with pieces I'm struggling to perfect grade 2-3 pieces! So we all have our own strengths and weaknesses...
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