Hi everyone

Just some thoughts from you. I have often wondered why, given the broad range of exams given by the ABRSM why the history of music is so conspicuously absent. I found out recently that the board have indeed cosidered this, but so far nothing has happened, though it is back on the agenda. Such a syllabus would probably test understanding of periods from Rennaissance, Baroque...and so on, role of key composers from those periods, origins and development of sonata, concerto, symphony etc. (including opera and theatre).

Anyone who has done a music degree, doing one (like myself), or even applying for one will be acutely aware how history is done to improve understanding of the music we are playing and composing. In fact, I have yet to see a music degree that does not do history of music.

Do teachers feel that exams like these would ultimately improve pupil's understanding of music, and add interest. Obviously the theory and aural tests expect some understanding of these topics, especially the higher grades, but this can not cover everything. May it also mean being more selective about which theory and practical exams were sat. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Moderators are also welcome to contribute to this discussion.

No thoughts?

Well I have noticed these exams are done by the Royal Conservatory of Music in Toronto. Not ABRSM though.

well i'd hope they dont introduce things about the periods....i would fail without doubt

I think history exams would be a great idea. Not only would they benefit everyone's musical knowledge, but also it would help with students doing music courses in school (GCSE's, Standard Grades etc.) or in Uni.

I sometimes lack in the musical history area, and would greatly benefit from history exams, and the knowledge needed for them.

I think it would be a great idea to find some way to offer students a structured course. However I can see that finding teachers to teach this and indeed enough people interested might be a problem. The cost of putting together a syllabus in terms of time/money/resources must be quite a tidy sum. I can't see this happening unless there is a real chance of there being a return both financially and in achieving the aim in which it was created for.

When I started out studying for the diploma what struck me was the lack of opportunities to cover the subject of history etc and find someone 'in the know' without it costing - given that I already spend quite a lot on lessons. One idea I thought that would have been quite good was the musical equivalent to a book club. Instead of meeting up and discussing a book, people could get together and discuss a particular piece of music, having spent the past week/2 weeks, whatever, listening to it. However, this would require the input of a 'learned person' and it would require the giving of information for free or a minimal fee. For each AB region they could 'employ' the services of a 'learned person'. The thing is, it's all very well if you study at a music college/school/university as I'm sure the appropriate info is there for you. But it's really not quite so straight forward when you are trying to study privately.

QUOTE (Ursie @ Mar 9 2005, 10:14 PM)

I think it would be a great idea to find some way to offer students a structured course. However I can see that finding teachers to teach this and indeed enough people interested might be a problem. The cost of putting together a syllabus in terms of time/money/resources must be quite a tidy sum. I can't see this happening unless there is a real chance of there being a return both financially and in achieving the aim in which it was created for.

The same was probably true at one point with theory exams.

And since I mention this, I would like to add my voice to suggestions for a theory forum, since so many threads come up on this.

QUOTE (neil.clarinet @ Mar 9 2005, 01:38 PM)

I have often wondered why, given the broad range of exams given by the ABRSM why the history of music is so conspicuously absent. I found out recently that the board have indeed cosidered this, but so far nothing has happened, though it is back on the agenda. Such a syllabus would probably test understanding of periods from Rennaissance, Baroque...and so on, role of key composers from those periods, origins and development of sonata, concerto, symphony etc. (including opera and theatre). Anyone who has done a music degree, doing one (like myself), or even applying for one will be acutely aware how history is done to improve understanding of the music we are playing and composing. In fact, I have yet to see a music degree that does not do history of music. Do teachers feel that exams like these would ultimately improve pupil's understanding of music, and add interest. Obviously the theory and aural tests expect some understanding of these topics, especially the higher grades, but this can not cover everything. May it also mean being more selective about which theory and practical exams were sat. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Examinations such as the old ATCL theory and AMusTCL require you to analyse music, discuss composer, etc. The latter exam, when I was studying it , was a nasty one - with a sprawling curriculum that meant that it was hard to predict what you would be examined on.

There would be a concern if children of aged 7 sitting Grade I were required to write essays or even paragraphs about the origins of the Renaissance movement! Children of 12 or so commonly sit Grade V - ###### they have not even hit secondary school yet!

However I would have no objection in principle to all the theory grades having (say) some multichoice questions on aspects of history, periods, styles. I strongly agree with subscribers that we need to do something to get all teachers and students thinking and talking about this from Day 1.

The key thing would be CONTAINING THE CURRICULUM to quite prescriptive levels for the first five grades. In other words:

(a) I would like to see Grades I - V continue to be more oriented to Training rather than unstructured Education.

( The history and/or context of music should be taught in each grade, in a tightly defined way.

A lack of awareness of the historical context of music robs it of much of its interest. A knowledge of it may stimulate much interest.

A good follow up to the above would be for someone to suggest what a Grade I student could learn about this. Basic orchestral instruments? What is the difference between a sonta, a concerto and a symphony? What is the difference between a folk song and an art song?

Personally I think i would cry if I had to know in depth about History too!
It was never my strong point! and still isn't, but I may study it now being a teacher as it is something that you need to know to pass onto your pupils so if there were exmas in it I may take them now.

I have done a degree and i found those lessons the most boring but it is because they were compulsary.

Do you know what I think would be a good idea, is if students were made to write programme notes on the pieces they were singing or playing in an exam, to present to the examiner, which could carry a small percentage of the marks.

I like the idea of just relating some information about the pieces of music you are to play in an exam. However, writing programme notes might be a bit much for some of the younger examinees. How about, pupils introduce each piece with a few words about it?

Eg, Now I am going to play xxxx by Xxxxx, a composer of the classical period. This piece tells the story of xxxxx (or was written for xxxx) (forgive all the xs, I'm too lazy to think of actual examples).

In the higher grades the information could be more detailed and precise.

I think introducing pieces in this way would give more of an official "recital" feel to the exam.

The Trinity Viva Voce (at least at the higher grades) requires this sort of knowledge of the pieces played.

QUOTE (Fred @ Mar 11 2005, 09:55 AM)

I like the idea of just relating some information about the pieces of music you are to play in an exam. However, writing programme notes might be a bit much for some of the younger examinees. How about, pupils introduce each piece with a few words about it? Eg, Now I am going to play xxxx by Xxxxx, a composer of the classical period. This piece tells the story of xxxxx  (or was written for xxxx)  (forgive all the xs, I'm too lazy to think of actual examples).

I suspect that we'd get rather a lot of parrots repeating what their teachers had told them and not much understanding of what they're saying. I think that if you wanted to do this the only way to go about it would be questions. I do think that an interest in the music being played is very important in playing (otherwise what's the point in playing it!) but it's hard to see how this could tested in a practical exam without it just being all the teacher's work...

QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Mar 11 2005, 12:05 PM)

I suspect that we'd get rather a lot of parrots repeating what their teachers had told them and not much understanding of what they're saying. I think that if you wanted to do this the only way to go about it would be questions. I do think that an interest in the music being played is very important in playing (otherwise what's the point in playing it!) but it's hard to see how this could tested in a practical exam without it just being all the teacher's work...

I suppose it would be up to the teacher to make the pupil do the homework and find out some interesting things about the piece, it may give them an interest in it to look further, it does happen sometimes
I think questions would be too general unless there was a stated reading on each piece which was to be known, but then i think this would become too much of a chore like scales
i was thinking of doing this for my students with exam pieces just for them to know a bit about what they are playing.

I got the idea from the LCM musical theatre exams where there a section where you have to discuss your chosed pieces with the examiner, so I make my pupils research it for me to read and then try and ask them some more questions to see if they can find out more details. Most of them like the idea of doing it themselves rather than them being told something that they have to remember.