I'd like to be able to play pieces from memory accurately but have no idea how to start. I can usually play bits of pieces without the music if I've learnt it really, really well, but I've never been able to play pieces all the way through. How should I start? My previous attempts have been to play the piece over and over again (driving the neighbours mad!) in the hope that it will go in somehow, but this hasn't worked.
Should I try starting with easier pieces? (I'm currently doing post-grade 6 stuff which I;m struggling with anyway) Or would this be a waste of time? I can usually remember the melody line but not the accompaniment, whether it's in the right or left hand.
And finally, is spending time on this worth it? Will it improve my general playing? My teacher has never deliberately played from memory himself, so can't really advise me.
Thanks,
Cat
Full Version: Memorising Music
I think to some people it comes natrually...like me...I just randomly start playing without the music and not realise it.....
Surely playing a piece over and over will help your overall playing though.
Good luck
Surely playing a piece over and over will help your overall playing though.
Good luck
The way I play is completely from memory.
I have this knack (annoyingly for my teacher!) of playing a piece about 3 times over and then it's commited to memory - unintentionally.
One thing I've noticed that I do to memorise 'intentionally' if it's a hard passage is to watch the pattern of my fingers on the keys. Eventually, your fingers naturally go to the correct keys.
This would definatley work - in my experience anyway. If it's a difficult phrase or chord etc, memorise it. If you can do that, you should be able to master smaller whole pieces of music.
It is a bit annoying memorising as I do because I don't have any control over it happening.
Where some people have a better visual reading memory (reading the notes on paper, seeing arpg's, broken chords etc), some have a better visual shape/pattern/pictorial memory if that makes sense.
I was reading an article on it in 'The pianist magazine'
Fiona
I have this knack (annoyingly for my teacher!) of playing a piece about 3 times over and then it's commited to memory - unintentionally.
One thing I've noticed that I do to memorise 'intentionally' if it's a hard passage is to watch the pattern of my fingers on the keys. Eventually, your fingers naturally go to the correct keys.
This would definatley work - in my experience anyway. If it's a difficult phrase or chord etc, memorise it. If you can do that, you should be able to master smaller whole pieces of music.
It is a bit annoying memorising as I do because I don't have any control over it happening.
Where some people have a better visual reading memory (reading the notes on paper, seeing arpg's, broken chords etc), some have a better visual shape/pattern/pictorial memory if that makes sense.
I was reading an article on it in 'The pianist magazine'
Fiona
In remembering the accompaniment it helps if you understand at least a little about the structure of the piece and the harmony.
I find that the pieces I manage to memorise (not many) usually have a fairly obvious harmonic structure so remembering the harmony helps a lot.
I find that the pieces I manage to memorise (not many) usually have a fairly obvious harmonic structure so remembering the harmony helps a lot.
It's an interesting question and I'm afraid I can't really help either as I fall into the natural memoriser category too; like Fiona I need to ask the opposite question of how can I not memorise something 
. I do have a theory that being good at memorising might be linked in some way to the ability to play by ear: if you can play by ear (it doesn't necessarily have to be perfectly) then you have less to remember since you only have to remember what the piece sounds like, not all of the notes. Obviously the ability to play by ear varies dramatically from person to person but if you can do it to even a small degree it may help in some way with memorising.
. I do have a theory that being good at memorising might be linked in some way to the ability to play by ear: if you can play by ear (it doesn't necessarily have to be perfectly) then you have less to remember since you only have to remember what the piece sounds like, not all of the notes. Obviously the ability to play by ear varies dramatically from person to person but if you can do it to even a small degree it may help in some way with memorising.
I used to memorise naturally, but now I'm older and the pieces are harder, it doesn't come so easily! Here are some methods which work for me:
The absolute Golden Rule is to work the fingering out BEFORE you start playing, and keep it identical every time you play it - that way your fingers get used to the patterns and "know" where to go - and you get used to seeing them make those patterns.
Look for patterns and repeated sections - you won't have to learn these bits the second time you come to them. It might help you to look at the structure, ie, if it's an ABACA form, you get on bit 3 times - you only have to learn it once, then remember where to repeat it.
Play and memorise hands separately first. (Fingering is more likey to be corrupted if you move to hands together too soon. Also it's easier to memorise when you only have one stave to concentrate on at a time).
Only do short (8 bar or so) sections at a time.
Memorise one section for RH, then move on to next - until a large section (1 or two pages or whatever) is memorised. Keep going back to ensure the earlier sections are still known. Then do the same for the LH. Then revise this large section playing both hands separately and together. Alternate playing with the music (should be quite fast when your memory is nearly there) and without it (slower, as you sometimes have to stop and think.
Hope this helps.
The absolute Golden Rule is to work the fingering out BEFORE you start playing, and keep it identical every time you play it - that way your fingers get used to the patterns and "know" where to go - and you get used to seeing them make those patterns.
Look for patterns and repeated sections - you won't have to learn these bits the second time you come to them. It might help you to look at the structure, ie, if it's an ABACA form, you get on bit 3 times - you only have to learn it once, then remember where to repeat it.
Play and memorise hands separately first. (Fingering is more likey to be corrupted if you move to hands together too soon. Also it's easier to memorise when you only have one stave to concentrate on at a time).
Only do short (8 bar or so) sections at a time.
Memorise one section for RH, then move on to next - until a large section (1 or two pages or whatever) is memorised. Keep going back to ensure the earlier sections are still known. Then do the same for the LH. Then revise this large section playing both hands separately and together. Alternate playing with the music (should be quite fast when your memory is nearly there) and without it (slower, as you sometimes have to stop and think.
Hope this helps.
i cant really say, with me its just practice, practice and moe practice. i use the music till ive learnt a section, then it just becomes second nature to me and i can play it from memory then. unless u can play by ear then i think just as much practice as possible, then u just get used to it. hope that kinda helps!!!
Just play the piece all over and over and over again!
Coz when you practise, it makes you think of improving areas naturally
It will come to you
Coz when you practise, it makes you think of improving areas naturally
It will come to you
For all those who say they just "naturally memorise" : most people do. It's called finger or rote memory. Not reliable in a performance situation either, might I add!!
You need to know what notes you're playing, and this comes from analysis. Work out the chords, know what's coming next and label certain landmarks. When I'm playing, I'm thinking "the next bar contains a neopolitan 6th" or whatever. Obviously you can't do this with absolutely everything, but you need certain landmarks to guide you through the piece, in addition to your finger memory.
Pianissimo
You need to know what notes you're playing, and this comes from analysis. Work out the chords, know what's coming next and label certain landmarks. When I'm playing, I'm thinking "the next bar contains a neopolitan 6th" or whatever. Obviously you can't do this with absolutely everything, but you need certain landmarks to guide you through the piece, in addition to your finger memory.
Pianissimo
i have to say my natural memory for music is really not very good! iv found just playing pieces over and over again works....but also, try memorizing pieces that are fun, and you enjoy playing! I've found i can't memorize a piece I'm not keen on at all, but i recently managed to memorize a 9 page duet, simply because it was so much fun I had to play it all the time, and I suddenly realised i knew all of it! the same thing happened with a solo grade 6 piece; my friend asked me to play it to her & i just started playing and got to the end somehow! now i can memorize quite a few pieces, so I reckon just keep trying, and it will all fall into place...it did for me anyway
i am hopeless at memorising pieces. i just cant do it! 
just play it over and over tahts what i do 
i do play things over and over. i cant even memorise Le Onde!! thats how bad i am!
What I find strange is that as a child I could play LOADS of pieces from memory...but as an adult I can't even get through the whole of the Chopin Waltz I'm learning for Grade 8 (and have been playing several times a week for the past 18 months or so!).
But when I was younger my sight-reading was weak...and now my sight-reading is pretty good.
So.................what happened?
Anyone else have the same experience?
But when I was younger my sight-reading was weak...and now my sight-reading is pretty good.
So.................what happened?
Anyone else have the same experience?
| QUOTE (pianissimo @ Mar 10 2005, 06:44 PM) |
| For all those who say they just "naturally memorise" : most people do. It's called finger or rote memory. Not reliable in a performance situation either, might I add!! |
I disagree.
'Muscle memory' or whatever term used is something myself and a couple of people I know use because of the way they learn.
It has never let me down yet.
Every concert I've played, I've never sat at the piano with a book. In exams, I put the book there but the examiner has commented before now -at the end that I never looked at my music once.
It's very rare I get a blank spot which is obviously where music back up is required. Therefore you could say it's always good practise to know where you are in the music if it happens (as my teacher as now stopped staying!)
But eaqually you could argue the point that because you are unable to memorise, you rely on the music too much.
If you naturally memorise effortlessly - subconciously, it tends to be very much set in the brain and very rare any hiccups occur.
If you have a technique to help you memorise - at a concious level, I do agree that you need to know where you are in the music in case you loose it !
Fiona
There are various types of music memory. I'll tell you the types that I remember, but there are often articles like this in music magazines if you want more.
First, finger memory, I guess this is for beginners without real method for memorizing. You just play the piece often, and after a few weeks the notes will stick to your fingers. I used this kind of memory when I was still a little boy, but I couldn't play the piece from the middle of it, if I went blank then I would have to repeat it from the beginning. It's very unreliable.
Second, photographic memory. In this kind you have a picture of the score in your mind. I really mean the score itself: you know whether the bar you're playing is on the top right of the page or the bottom left. And sometimes you know the page number also, but this is pure image memory: if it's transferred to computer data it will be in .gif, .bmp, or .jpg format, not a .MUS (finale notation file) or .sib (sibelius notation file). I've never found a way to use this kind of memory.
Third, is the memory I use now: you know the music very well from each part, each bar. It's easy to do this in a sonata, if you know when does the first theme, the second and other themes, development, and recapitulation occur.
First, finger memory, I guess this is for beginners without real method for memorizing. You just play the piece often, and after a few weeks the notes will stick to your fingers. I used this kind of memory when I was still a little boy, but I couldn't play the piece from the middle of it, if I went blank then I would have to repeat it from the beginning. It's very unreliable.
Second, photographic memory. In this kind you have a picture of the score in your mind. I really mean the score itself: you know whether the bar you're playing is on the top right of the page or the bottom left. And sometimes you know the page number also, but this is pure image memory: if it's transferred to computer data it will be in .gif, .bmp, or .jpg format, not a .MUS (finale notation file) or .sib (sibelius notation file). I've never found a way to use this kind of memory.
Third, is the memory I use now: you know the music very well from each part, each bar. It's easy to do this in a sonata, if you know when does the first theme, the second and other themes, development, and recapitulation occur.
Petite Joueuse, I hear you! I also note that son Viohazard can't remember pieces as long (months, years after hearing/playing) or as accurately as when he was little.
I think that's partly because he plays more complex music, but partly because he uses different types of memory now that he's older (I think that very small children have acute powers of observation, but limited ability to remember through understanding).
I often wonder what aural memory for music really is. My father had it, though he couldn't play any instrument.
I have no memory for music at all (I can remember how to play something with effort, but in my mind the music unfolds itself as a series of pictures forming a story, so I remember the phrase that is associated with going through a gate, not the musical structure at all!), but find it very hard to recall music I've heard a few times). The problem can't be actual auditory memory, because I've never had to deliberately "memorize" vocabulary in a foreign language - I just remember it (most of the time...
).
Viohazard appears to remember music that he has heard more quickly than the music that he plays - the opposite from me.
BUT...it's not all jam. He will quickly memorize a movement of a concerto, but if his memory fails, he somehow fills in the spot by playing something that sounds OK, but isn't actually correct (i.e., if you didn't know the piece, you probably wouldn't notice anything wrong). That kind of error seems to be fatal - once he's remembered it that way, he has to use tricks and "flags" in his memory to remind himself play it the correct way. I'm guessing that other forum members with good memories for music sometimes have this problem??
I think that's partly because he plays more complex music, but partly because he uses different types of memory now that he's older (I think that very small children have acute powers of observation, but limited ability to remember through understanding).
I often wonder what aural memory for music really is. My father had it, though he couldn't play any instrument.
I have no memory for music at all (I can remember how to play something with effort, but in my mind the music unfolds itself as a series of pictures forming a story, so I remember the phrase that is associated with going through a gate, not the musical structure at all!), but find it very hard to recall music I've heard a few times). The problem can't be actual auditory memory, because I've never had to deliberately "memorize" vocabulary in a foreign language - I just remember it (most of the time...
). Viohazard appears to remember music that he has heard more quickly than the music that he plays - the opposite from me.
BUT...it's not all jam. He will quickly memorize a movement of a concerto, but if his memory fails, he somehow fills in the spot by playing something that sounds OK, but isn't actually correct (i.e., if you didn't know the piece, you probably wouldn't notice anything wrong). That kind of error seems to be fatal - once he's remembered it that way, he has to use tricks and "flags" in his memory to remind himself play it the correct way. I'm guessing that other forum members with good memories for music sometimes have this problem??
I'm a 'memoriser' and I started out with pure finger memory, which meant I'd fall to bits if I made a mistake. I now really try to remember the music 'properly', making a careful mental note of important chords / key changes etc. This helps a lot, and lets you play through mistakes.
I find that with more complex pieces you do have to be very careful not to memorise artificial pauses. Although I know all the music to Mozart's Fantasy in D minor off by heart, I almost always stop at a couple of points, particularly if I'm nervous. I have no difficulty starting again, and can carry on with no problem, it's just that my fingers have decided they have to stop for a few seconds at a couple of inappropriate points!
I'm sure this is because I've learned it in chunks as the involuntary pauses occur where I used to stop when practising a particular section. By learning in this way, I'd actually taught myself quite a few mistakes!!
As far as I can work out, the only way around this problem is to force yourself to play the piece contiuously by slowing it right down and then letting is speed up naturally as it stops being a series of 'chunks' and becomes a continuous piece. If this works I may play the Fantasy at the next adult learners do!!
I find that with more complex pieces you do have to be very careful not to memorise artificial pauses. Although I know all the music to Mozart's Fantasy in D minor off by heart, I almost always stop at a couple of points, particularly if I'm nervous. I have no difficulty starting again, and can carry on with no problem, it's just that my fingers have decided they have to stop for a few seconds at a couple of inappropriate points!
I'm sure this is because I've learned it in chunks as the involuntary pauses occur where I used to stop when practising a particular section. By learning in this way, I'd actually taught myself quite a few mistakes!!
As far as I can work out, the only way around this problem is to force yourself to play the piece contiuously by slowing it right down and then letting is speed up naturally as it stops being a series of 'chunks' and becomes a continuous piece. If this works I may play the Fantasy at the next adult learners do!!
Wow, a hot topic!
I'd never really considered the structure of a piece in order to memorise it before, I will give that a go.
I was also hoping to spark off a debate on whether memorising is worth it or not. Does anyone have any opinions on that?
Thanks for your replies everyone
Cat
I'd never really considered the structure of a piece in order to memorise it before, I will give that a go.
I was also hoping to spark off a debate on whether memorising is worth it or not. Does anyone have any opinions on that?
Thanks for your replies everyone
Cat
| QUOTE (StuMac @ Mar 11 2005, 02:54 PM) |
| As far as I can work out, the only way around this problem is to force yourself to play the piece contiuously by slowing it right down and then letting is speed up naturally as it stops being a series of 'chunks' and becomes a continuous piece. If this works I may play the Fantasy at the next adult learners do!! |
Or a more efficient way: start a few bars before the join (for each one) and play to a few bars after thus introducing a new section that bridges the two sections. Repeat just this over and over again and you can practise the join twenty times in the time you could play the piece once. If you do this for each join it's quicker than playing the whole piece through until you've done it (unless there's a join every two bars!).
| QUOTE |
| I was also hoping to spark off a debate on whether memorising is worth it or not. Does anyone have any opinions on that? |
I don't think it's necessary, but I do think it's useful in case of disasters, e.g. music falling off the stand in the middle of a one time incredibly important performance! Also, if you can memorize long pieces you have the advantage of not having pages to turn in really akward places and things like that
| QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Mar 11 2005, 04:16 PM) | ||
Or a more efficient way: start a few bars before the join (for each one) and play to a few bars after thus introducing a new section that bridges the two sections. Repeat just this over and over again and you can practise the join twenty times in the time you could play the piece once. If you do this for each join it's quicker than playing the whole piece through until you've done it (unless there's a join every two bars!). |
No..not every three bars! The *main* problem at the moment is that the cadenzas are self-standing. This is not a problem for the first one, as it's followed by a pause on a rest, but there are a few other unofficial 'rests'!I'm actually doing what you suggest but in my head I'm really trying to think of the whole thing as a continuous piece of music.
I've been working on this for an embarrasingly *long* time, although it has been slightly on and off as I've worked on other pieces as well. It's the first 'big' piece I've attempted - by that I mean one that's more than a couple of mins long - and, as my teacher said, "the end is in now in sight"!
If I can get the whole lot together into one continuous performance I recon it will sound pretty good as all the bits sound OK. All the work will have been worth it.
I think I've now learned a lot more about how to study and practise longer pieces so hopefully my next major project will come to fruition quicker!!
It amazes me how people learn huge piano sonatas. You never see a professional concert pianist sitting there with the music in front of him (at least I havn't).
strange i just memorise things after playing things through a few times
| QUOTE (DGA @ Mar 11 2005, 01:51 AM) |
| First, finger memory, I guess this is for beginners without real method for memorizing. You just play the piece often, and after a few weeks the notes will stick to your fingers. Second, photographic memory. In this kind you have a picture of the score in your mind. found a way to use this kind of memory. Third, is the memory I use now: you know the music very well from each part, each bar. |
Yes, I think I agree with this. I still use finger memory for the pieces I learnt up to about a year ago - and if these collapse in the middle, I can't pick them up again, but have to restart. Since my ability to sight read has improved, however, I've been learning pieces in a more conscious way, noticing what I'm playing and thinking it through - this is far better and I think would stand up to performing, although I haven't played anything from memory to an audience yet.
I usually find that once i've been practising a piece for over a month, i can play it without the music...but i never normally realise it until i get to the end and then look at the music thinking "i've forgotten to turn the pages"
If you're not one of those lucky people who naturally memorises, then you're probably doomed to frustration and despair by the "play it over and over again" advice.
But there is a way that really works! I discovered it about 5 or 6 months ago at the age of 51, having been convinced that I probably couldn't even memorise baa baa black sheep!
I was searching around for the same answer, partly because I felt that I was not able to play more advanced pieces up to a good tempo with my eyes glued to the score (which some misguided teacher in the distant past had insisted upon and which became a deeply ingrained habit) and also I felt idiotic that having reached grade 8 standard some years ago I could play virtually nothing if I happened on a piano away from home, unless I just happened to have a suitcase full of piano scores with me.
I came across this site;
www.pianoforum.net
in which there is masses of advice and debate about memorization and practice techniques. Use the search function and in particular look for contributions by Bernhard, which I have found enormously helpful. Here is a link to a lot of his stuff;
http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5767.0.html
What I learned to do,(a very brief summary) is;
to learn by heart from the beginning;
to aim always to play it right, therefore it's necessary ....
to choose a very small section to learn, hands separately. This section should be so small that after investigating the fingering and arm movements necessary to play the notes at full tempo, after playing it 7 times with full attention it should already be memorised and up to speed. If not, cut it in half and try again. You may end up with a bar or less. If this is all your short term memory can hold, then so be it. Then you really start to practice this short bit HS, alternating hands frequently, for not more than 20 minutes. (Less if you're down to 2 or 3 notes!) Then you go on to your next small chunk, remembering to include an overlapping note. You proceed like this for your available time working on these small, overlapping chunks, practicing each for not more than 20 minutes. You aim to play HS faster than the required tempo. You do not try to join the small chunks yet. (This takes willpower!) If you can put hands together at this stage , from memory and at final tempo on each small chunk, all well and good, but if not keep to HS. You then leave it. It seems your brain needs an overnight sleep period for the new stuff to start working its way into longer term memory.
Next day you sit down full of enthusiasm ... and quite likely can't remember the first note! (Apparently this is normal, I thought it was just me.) So you repeat yesterday's routine, only now you can relearn each of yesterday's small chunks much faster and so you have time to add some new chunks in the same way. And similarly the next day, though by now your hands are itching to join a few bars and the chunks that you first learned HS you may be able to play HT without too much loss of tempo, IF you really have practised the correct fingerings and movements HS. It may take several days or before you can just go to the piano and play a connected section, depending on the difficulty of the piece.
As your sections slowly grow, you incorporate all sorts of other techniques to help ingrain the notes, such as very slow practice, alternating fast and slow, repeated note groups, rhythmic variations etc. You don't have to start at the beginning of the piece, in fact it's advisable to identify and learn the most technically difficult sections first as these will take the most practice.
It feels very frustrating at first to work in such small chunks because we all want to play the whole beautiful melody and harmony straight off and it's tempting to relent and just sightread the piece again. I find to my cost Iattempt to cut corners my brain remembers and repeats the errors oh so well!
Being able to analyse the structure of the piece and listening to as many recordings as possible is hugely helpful and I know there are many different approaches to memorising. But for me the basic way above has transformed how I practise and I've gone from zero pieces memorised over more than 10 years to four pieces of grade7 or 8 standard over the last 5 months. I hope this helps.
But there is a way that really works! I discovered it about 5 or 6 months ago at the age of 51, having been convinced that I probably couldn't even memorise baa baa black sheep!
I was searching around for the same answer, partly because I felt that I was not able to play more advanced pieces up to a good tempo with my eyes glued to the score (which some misguided teacher in the distant past had insisted upon and which became a deeply ingrained habit) and also I felt idiotic that having reached grade 8 standard some years ago I could play virtually nothing if I happened on a piano away from home, unless I just happened to have a suitcase full of piano scores with me.
I came across this site;
www.pianoforum.net
in which there is masses of advice and debate about memorization and practice techniques. Use the search function and in particular look for contributions by Bernhard, which I have found enormously helpful. Here is a link to a lot of his stuff;
http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5767.0.html
What I learned to do,(a very brief summary) is;
to learn by heart from the beginning;
to aim always to play it right, therefore it's necessary ....
to choose a very small section to learn, hands separately. This section should be so small that after investigating the fingering and arm movements necessary to play the notes at full tempo, after playing it 7 times with full attention it should already be memorised and up to speed. If not, cut it in half and try again. You may end up with a bar or less. If this is all your short term memory can hold, then so be it. Then you really start to practice this short bit HS, alternating hands frequently, for not more than 20 minutes. (Less if you're down to 2 or 3 notes!) Then you go on to your next small chunk, remembering to include an overlapping note. You proceed like this for your available time working on these small, overlapping chunks, practicing each for not more than 20 minutes. You aim to play HS faster than the required tempo. You do not try to join the small chunks yet. (This takes willpower!) If you can put hands together at this stage , from memory and at final tempo on each small chunk, all well and good, but if not keep to HS. You then leave it. It seems your brain needs an overnight sleep period for the new stuff to start working its way into longer term memory.
Next day you sit down full of enthusiasm ... and quite likely can't remember the first note! (Apparently this is normal, I thought it was just me.) So you repeat yesterday's routine, only now you can relearn each of yesterday's small chunks much faster and so you have time to add some new chunks in the same way. And similarly the next day, though by now your hands are itching to join a few bars and the chunks that you first learned HS you may be able to play HT without too much loss of tempo, IF you really have practised the correct fingerings and movements HS. It may take several days or before you can just go to the piano and play a connected section, depending on the difficulty of the piece.
As your sections slowly grow, you incorporate all sorts of other techniques to help ingrain the notes, such as very slow practice, alternating fast and slow, repeated note groups, rhythmic variations etc. You don't have to start at the beginning of the piece, in fact it's advisable to identify and learn the most technically difficult sections first as these will take the most practice.
It feels very frustrating at first to work in such small chunks because we all want to play the whole beautiful melody and harmony straight off and it's tempting to relent and just sightread the piece again. I find to my cost Iattempt to cut corners my brain remembers and repeats the errors oh so well!
Being able to analyse the structure of the piece and listening to as many recordings as possible is hugely helpful and I know there are many different approaches to memorising. But for me the basic way above has transformed how I practise and I've gone from zero pieces memorised over more than 10 years to four pieces of grade7 or 8 standard over the last 5 months. I hope this helps.
I remember reading something about the brain being hugely satisfied when you reach the end of something...and the suggestion was that when learning a piece of music you should memorise the closing bars first, and then work backwards!
I've tried it....not sure if it works that well for me...but worth a try!
I've tried it....not sure if it works that well for me...but worth a try!
wow, dorfmouse! I've just dipped into Bernhards list of advice links and it's all pretty humbling! I particularly liked the bits about 3 ways to bring out a piano melody despite the notes decaying, and also about arranging practise to minimise wrong/tired versions getting stuck in your head, and maximise the correct version being learnt.
I have to say, though, as an overview your own summary is to me as clear and helpful as any individual piece of Bernhard's advice, although he obviously covers a very wide range of topics. I may try to adapt your advice for learning some violin music (perhaps combined with petite joueuse's back to front approach)!
I have to say, though, as an overview your own summary is to me as clear and helpful as any individual piece of Bernhard's advice, although he obviously covers a very wide range of topics. I may try to adapt your advice for learning some violin music (perhaps combined with petite joueuse's back to front approach)!
There is definitely something in the back to front approach. It works for people learning "unpronounceable" words in foreign languages - you start with the final sounds practice, adding one more sound at a time.
Thank you Zoda. I only touched on the tip of his iceberg. There is an absolute goldmine of ideas/information on that site and hardly any musical problem that hasn't been analysed in depth, particularly by that contributor. Start exploring and bookmarking the links and I guarantee you'll have weeks' worth of reading!
It's so great having these wonderful forums to support and learn from each other.
It's so great having these wonderful forums to support and learn from each other.
| QUOTE (all ears @ Mar 14 2005, 10:18 PM) |
| There is definitely something in the back to front approach. It works for people learning "unpronounceable" words in foreign languages - you start with the final sounds practice, adding one more sound at a time. |
yes, definitely - I've used this myself learning languages, and I've used it when teaching English words. also just breaking words down into their seperate sounds... I guess this is like learning music in chunks.
Well, I learn music off by heart, by constantly playing it. However, even if you are a good musician, you may still make mistakes in the dynamics of th emusic, so, it's still a good idea to play with music as well.
I rarely try to play from memory.
| QUOTE (Catrin @ Mar 10 2005, 12:55 PM) |
| I'd like to be able to play pieces from memory accurately but have no idea how to start. I can usually play bits of pieces without the music if I've learnt it really, really well, but I've never been able to play pieces all the way through. How should I start? My previous attempts have been to play the piece over and over again (driving the neighbours mad!) in the hope that it will go in somehow, but this hasn't worked. Should I try starting with easier pieces? (I'm currently doing post-grade 6 stuff which I;m struggling with anyway) Or would this be a waste of time? I can usually remember the melody line but not the accompaniment, whether it's in the right or left hand. And finally, is spending time on this worth it? Will it improve my general playing? My teacher has never deliberately played from memory himself, so can't really advise me. Thanks, Cat |
wow..... you must be the COMPLETE opposite from me! i cant help but learn things from memory. and yes its is good sometimes BUT, sight reading can become really difficult. your sight reading is probably really good!!
| QUOTE (dorfmouse @ Mar 15 2005, 12:49 AM) |
| It's so great having these wonderful forums to support and learn from each other. |
I totally agree.
They can get a bit addictive, though!
hope you find time to pop in here now and again on your travels, Dorfmouse!
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