Hi there,
It looks as if I may be asked to teach a child (well, 12/13-yr-old) with Asperger's Syndrome (a form of Autism). Does anyone have any experience in this field? Are there any tips I ought to know? I know that Autistic children take everything literally (so no lovely metaphors), but that's about all.
Hope someone's got some advice to give...
Alison

Can't help with your question I'm afraid, but my niece has just been diagnosed with possibly being on the autistic spectrum - she's only three, so it's hard to tell at the moment how 'badly' she might be affected.

If anyone has any suggestions as to what we could do musically with her, that would be great. She is a delightful child (most of the time!), and simply loves dancing and music. I have heard that making music can help with the autistic child's development.

Hi Alison,

I teach a few children with Aspergers - some of them are in groups with children who don't have the syndrome. It does work - and you probably wont have to treat them any differently, apart from the fact that they will take you literally! I think the main thing you will notice is that children with aspergers can be easily distracted, and their attention span may well be a lot shorter than some of your other pupils. Plan each lesson so that you have loads of different activities to do...even more than you think you may need, as they can suddenly decided that they have had enough of something and switch off. I was going over a G major scale with one of my pupils the other day, he got half way through the scale and declared that he was bored with that and he was going to play something else! You can try and get their attention back but it's not usually possible. I would say the more variety you get into the lessons the better.

Hope this helps.

Just remember the difference between aspergers and autists - an autistic child is close to impossible to teach, a child with aspergers can be wonderful to teach, if you're prepared

David, that depends on the scale of autism. I teach a few autistic children with great success.

Dear Alison,

If you have the opportunity to teach a child with AS grab it with both hands – it will be a very rewarding experience for both you and the child if you are prepared to learn a little about autism. As well as teaching some very young children with autism, I teach at a London Conservatoire and there we have three children with Asperger’s Syndrome on the Saturday course who are all doing extremely well. I also have a daughter, brother and mother (deceased) with Asperger's Syndrome.

Two useful sites are www.nas.org.uk and www.tonyattwood.com.au. The National Autistic Society can provide teachers with literature (in fact the ABRSM has recently liased with the NAS as it’s keen to make sure that appropriate support is being provided to candidates during AB exams), The second site is Tony Attwood’s, who is a leading authority on AS. He also has written a fantastic book called Aperger’s Syndrome: a Guide for Parents and Professionals. ISBN 1-85302-577-1.

i recently bought a book on AS. Mark Haddon "The Curious Incident fo The Dog in the Night-Time" UK author. ISBN0-099-47043-8
doesn't teach u on teaching autistic/AS children though. This is just a novel for older readers ..progtagonist is a 15 yr old teen with AS. is a fast read, if you have the time, may take some time to read the book. It definitely teaches you a lot of how AS ppl see thru the world/think etc.
Of course this book is tailored to one type of AS person, but i think some of the symtoms the author uses on his character is very broad as well.
maybe it'll help you understanding their mentality more.

=) don't give up and good luck with the student

Just do you know, "the curious incident..." is written about someone suffering from aspergers. This may be a type of autism, but is very different, and you cannot compare the two.

Hi everyone, This is a really interesting topic to me, as, after the Easter holidays I am starting my very first teaching job. I will be working in a Special School teaching a class of Autistic children.

I must say, I agree absolutely with what DavidMusic says. Aspergers and Autism are very different, and within Autistic Spectrum there are vast differences in ability ( this is why is is called a 'spectrum' or 'range'). Before I met my class I hoped I might be able to teach them some basic music, maybe right hand keyboard or recorder, & simple music reading, however now I'm not so sure. I'm determined to give it a go, however my children are very low functioning Autistics, about half with other special needs in addition, none of mine have any speech either.

I think if you are preparing to teach an Autistic child, then you must meet the child, talk to their parents etc, to gauge their functioning level, and best way of working, ie finding a motivator is a big thing for my children. I don't really see how you could find a rule or method that applies to all Autistic Spectrum people, as the spectrum is so very wide.

Also, please could anyone give me any advice as to how I can brighten up my music lessons, or any pointers on teaching very basic music. Do you think the bast method would be to get them to copy me? Would cheap recorders do at first do you think? What do you suggest? I'll have to buy them myself.

Many Thanks

Joy

I have just started teaching a teenager with Aspergers syndrome. I would be careful of getting Aspergers confused with autism per se; although Aspergers is on the autusm spectrum, it can be hard to recognise a person with Aspergers as having any problem at all whereas full-blown autism would be impossible to miss, as far as I understand.

With the teenager I teach I have been advised to be very sensitive to his feelings and not patronise him in any way as he can get very upset. He has an extremely high IQ (160+) so in reality teaching him has been an absolute joy so far although I'm not so naive as to imagine I won't ever encounter problems with him.

I would advise reading up as much as possible about Aspergers but then play it by ear - your pupil will be as much of an individual as anybody else. And bear in mind that there are many married people out there with Aspergers - it can be easily missed. In the case of my own pupil I try to remember at all times to respect his unusually high IQ and give him tasks that always challenge him somwhat - he responds very well to being taught in this way.

Joy - do you know anything about the Kodaly approach?? Several Kodaly teachers teach special needs children and one in particular, Judith Brindle, runs courses on teaching autistic children.

Early work involves a great deal of imitation and extremely simple songs and rhymes, many with movement/actions.

I have no experience of teaching special needs outside of mainstream education, but I feel sure that this 'mother tongue' approach could be very helpful and valuable to you in your endeavours.

Good luck!

QUOTE (Violinia @ Apr 13 2004, 12:17 PM)

He has an extremely high IQ (160+)

Is 160 high?

Hi Allison:
There is a book I found really helpful on my work with autistic students. Is written by the mother of an autistic child in a simple everyday language. Easy to read. "The Dragons of Autism" by Olga Holland. I got mine from Amazon.
Hope that helps

Er yes, David - an IQ of 160 is extremely high. I think you need an IQ of 140 to get into Mensa.

QUOTE (Violinia @ May 12 2004, 03:35 PM)

Er yes, David - an IQ of 160 is extremely high. I think you need an IQ of 140 to get into Mensa.

Oh. I have an IQ of 174 apparently, but I never thought I was that clever. But I turned down Mensa when I was 7...

QUOTE (DavidMusic @ May 12 2004, 10:28 PM)

QUOTE (Violinia @ May 12 2004, 03:35 PM) Er yes, David - an IQ of 160 is extremely high.  I think you need an IQ of 140 to get into Mensa. Oh. I have an IQ of 174 apparently, but I never thought I was that clever. But I turned down Mensa when I was 7...

Gosh I'm really impressed, that you are such a real clever clogs David, LOL

Remember, I.Q. tests do not have the clout they used to have; they are now becoming outdated as a way of accurately measuring intelligence. (I was in Mensa for a year, so it's not a case of the green eyed monster!)

i think my IQ is something around 130ish i cant remember exactly!!

Hi there. I am from Singapore and have just started teaching piano as my career. I have just found out that one of my new student has Autistic/Aspergers Syndrome. He is 5 years old and his mother died when he was only 6 months old. His father enrolled him to music hoping that he can learn music just like normal people. Anyone can give me advise on how to teach him as i am afraid i can't get his attention ( i did a trial class on him) well. He will keep on talking about other things when i am trying to explain things to him. Thank you.

I am doing an honours dissertation on autistic children in music. Just be sympathetic, and DON'T criticise involuntary rude remarks, lapses in concentration, literal interpretation, lack of eye contact, social skills, obsessive speech, monotone voice etc. Most AS children CAN understand metaphors, and they certainly find music rewarding.

Hi Neil. My neice is autistic, and loves her music. Is there anything her mum can do to help her? She does sit still occasionally, but things her xylophone is the best thing. She doesn't talk yet, only a few words, but lovely was said many times about the xylophone. She enjoyes singing too..... oh, and she's nearly four.

Emma

There are books that tell parents how they can make music with disabled children, and have similar effects as in music therapy. You are NOT a music therapist if you have not done an approved postgraduate training course, but you can still do similar things. It is widely accepted that autistic children often show good aptitude for music.

Also, know the difference between high functioning autism, and Asperger's Syndrome. This seriously effects the style of participation appropriate, even though it is considered one continuing spectrum. I shan't go into too much detail here, but if and when the PM facility returns, I'll send you more.

Thanks Neil. Both Nat and Amber hav my emal address, so you can ask them for it if you like.

Rosie has been diagnosed as autistic, but she is too tiny yet to tell where she is on the spectrum, though my sister has been told that she is liekely to be somewhere in the middle. Having said that she also has a form of epilepsy that causes continuous brain spiking which has just been discovered, and it could be possible that this has caused some of her learning difficulties. her father is a good violinist (though plays very rarely).

If you know of any books, please do let me know.

One book I have used a lot is Music Therapy, Sensory Integration and the Autistic Child, by Dorita Berger. It is quite technical, but very insightful. If you want an idea of music therapy, there is literature by Leslie Bunt, Sarah Hoskyns, Juliette Alvin, and many more. There is also work on the more social context by David Hargreaves, Gary Ansdell and Mercedes Pavlavic. Jessica Kingsley Publishers have a wealth of books in this area. Many community musicians use principles of music therapy without being actual music therapists.

For yourself, Nat, or Amber to give your email address would involve stating it publicly, until PM is restored. Sorry.

Neil

Unless you happen to have their email address? I'm happy for either to give it to you if you email them to ask for it.

Hi everybody

I teach brass at a school for children with special needs. We have over twenty (primary age) children participating who have autism, Aspergers, Down's, behaviour difficulties... to name just a few. They all get a weekly group lesson and play in a band together. The level of progress is much slower than with mainstream primary children, but nevertheless progress IS being made.
I am by no means an expert on this subject, and just wanted to point out that it can be done. Also, I feel that my own teaching of both mainstream and special needs kids has improved as a result - I have learnt so much in just a few months.

scoobydog

Having now taught 2 children with Aspergers I'm finding it hard to see how the Aspergers affects theor ability to learn to play an instrument. Both of them have high IQ's and are quick and responsive with a marked ability to hear when they're playing out of tune. I would never have noticed that one of them had a problem - she was just a bit over-talkative when I was teaching her in a group. I now teach her on her own and she's a delight; I guess she needed more individual attention.

Aspergers is a funny condition - often quite undetectable to outsiders. I know it's on the autistic spectrum, but doesn't seem to have much in common with autism. Is it really a disorder? Is it even right to label people with something like this? I suppose if it helps people to know how to treat them; ie with more sensitivity and an awareness that they "don't understand irony" but I made an ironic remark to the older Aspergers pupil recently and he smiled wryly.

Anyway this isn't the place to discuss the ins and outs of Aspergers; I just wanted to make the comment that Aspergers is nothing like autism, and can go undetected for a lifetime, even by a spouse.

Violinia

QUOTE (Violinia @ Mar 6 2005, 12:15 PM)

Is it really a disorder?  Is it even right to label people with something like this?

Yes!!!

Asperger's results in a series of unusual behaviours, so it can't go undetected. Very distinctive to a specialist, but laymen will still realise there is something different about them to normal people.

The best book on this is by Tony Attwood.

Its my first day teaching an Aspergers student and i find it interesting not not difficult at all!!

QUOTE

Asperger's results in a series of unusual behaviours, so it can't go undetected. Very distinctive to a specialist, but laymen will still realise there is something different about them to normal people.

A layman won't always realise there's something different about someone with Aspergers, because they can be married to them for years without knowing.

Also, your use of the word "normal" as opposed to someone with Aspergers is horrible in that it sets them apart. Who of us is "normal" anyway? Have you ever met a "normal" person? We all tend towards one personality disorder or another; it's only the degree of this that singles us out.

Surely in the end we're all individuals, and heaven know show people with Aspergers must feel when told they're different to "normal" people. Some may be fine with this, but others may find it very painful.

The Aspergers boy I used to teach was a very sensitive soul, seemingly always alert to what I was thinking and feeling, so the idea they have "no empathy" didn't seem to fit. I do concede that knowing he had this problem made me more sensitive to him and careful not to offend him in any way, but surely one should be alert to this with children in any case.

I don't like the idea that they're considered "not normal". Nobody's normal and we're all different to varying degrees.

Violinia

QUOTE (Emma C @ Mar 4 2005, 01:35 PM)

Unless you happen to have their email address? I'm happy for either to give it to you if you email them to ask for it.

Or ask the moderating team to send it to me.

best wishes

Er, steady on Violina.

Not only have you taken this thread off the topic of music (the ultimate bugbear of these forums), you have taken my wording so literally (rather like someone with Asperger's does). "Normal" is a general term.

Also, I never mention lacking in empathy (although this is often a factor). Where did this come from?

I am researching this topic at present, and have first hand experience of people with Asperger's. I speak from experience.

The original question was:

QUOTE

Does anyone have any experience in this field? Are there any tips I ought to know? I know that Autistic children take everything literally (so no lovely metaphors), but that's about all. Hope someone's got some advice to give...

You can hardly answer a question about the nature of Aspergers without veering somewhat off the subject of music.

I just didn't like the way you said "there's something different about them to normal people". Most people take a long time if ever to recognise that there's anything different about a person with Aspergers; the people most likely to recognise anything are parents, siblings and spouses and even they don't always detect it.

I mention this in order to help the original questioner to understand that they may notice nothing unusual about their Aspergers student at all.

A year ago I got a new teaching job and was told one of my new students had Aspergers. Naturally I was apprehensive and read up everything I could; as it happened the boy turned out to be super-bright with sight-reading skills the like of which I'd never encountered before. He was slightly quirky, hada good sense of humour and showed a lot of thoughtfulness; I used to look forward to his lessons more than anybody else's and was sad when he left.

I now have another Aspergers student who is also delightful and sweet as well as super-sensitive. I do have to be careful to tell her what we're going to do before we start the lesson so she knows where she is and what to expect, but other than that..

In fact this is the only difference I've really noticed - a need for order and predictability, so a lesson-plan is a good idea, and then tell them what the lesson plan is. Also good to have the lesson at the same time each week if at all possible because unpredictability does make Aspergers people feel insecure.

But otherwise, expect a very bright and sensitive student, probably highly musical and a delight to teach.

Violinia

QUOTE (Violinia @ Mar 7 2005, 08:04 PM)

You can hardly answer a question about the nature of Aspergers without veering somewhat off the subject of music.

Very true.