hornplayer
Mar 28 2005, 10:53 AM
hey
my A2 music recital is on Wednesday April 13th, and I've been trying to find information for the viva voce section on my pieces.
I'm playing:
1) 2nd movement of R. Strauss Horn Concerto No.1 in Eb
2) Rondo in Bb by Arnold Cooke
I've found info on the Strauss, but its really hard to find info on the Cooke. If anyone has any information or experience of doing a Viva Voce on these pieces I'd really appreciate it.
Also, I have two recordings of the Strauss 2nd movt, the Dennis Brain version is 4min 55 and the David Pyatt version is 5min 45 ish!!! I have to keep the recital between 7 and 10 minutes. What speed is better for it? I didnt really like the faster tempo, but the Pyatt was excessively slow.
Thanks people
hornplayer xx
saxlover
Mar 28 2005, 11:06 AM
no idea! but what things are you talking about in your viva voce?! ive got mine soon!
neil.clarinet
Mar 28 2005, 03:35 PM
Don't get too straussed out about the viva voce. Just research the composer and periods thouroughly. Have things in mind like form, key, why they were written etc.
And if the tempos you heard were too fast and too slow, get something in between.
elmo
Mar 28 2005, 03:37 PM
Mines not for ages!! 18th of May, last ever day in school and we do an exam!
Our teacher said we had to find out stuff about the style it the pieces were in, what sort of interpretation we'd given it, how we'd explain playing the instrument to a beginner, how we practice and a little bit of background info on the composer/s.
And I haven't even started yet!
saxlover
Mar 28 2005, 05:07 PM
elmo dear you have ages!
moi on the other hand has not got ages! mine is on 21st april and i cant play the pieces let alone do the viva voce!
hornplayer
Mar 28 2005, 05:30 PM
For the viva voce you have to know the form of the piece, keys, period it was written in etc.
Thanks neil.clarinet, I probably will go for something in the middle (was the obvious thing really).
My main problem is that Arnold Cooke is still alive, so no one has written much about him in any books and his output isnt huge and the Rondo isnt even listed in the latest edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music.
Also, the date of 13th April is practically the earliest date the recital can be on. grrrrrrr.....
I was hoping that hgirl might be online sometime, as I know she did these pieces for her DipABRSM. I would have PMed her, but its dont working, and I only have about two weeks before the big day
hornplayer xx
kenm
Mar 28 2005, 09:23 PM
| QUOTE (hornplayer @ Mar 28 2005, 10:53 AM) |
I'm playing:
1) 2nd movement of R. Strauss Horn Concerto No.1 in Eb
2) Rondo in Bb by Arnold Cooke
I've found info on the Strauss, but its really hard to find info on the Cooke. If anyone has any information or experience of doing a Viva Voce on these pieces I'd really appreciate it.
Also, I have two recordings of the Strauss 2nd movt, the Dennis Brain version is 4min 55 and the David Pyatt version is 5min 45 ish!!! I have to keep the recital between 7 and 10 minutes. What speed is better for it? I didnt really like the faster tempo, but the Pyatt was excessively slow. |
The metronome mark (presumably approved by Strauss) is quaver 69; the movement is 113 bars long, in 3/8. If you work out 113 x 3 / 69, you will find that Brain is spot-on.
Arnold Cooke was one of three English composers who studied with Paul Hindemith (the others were Franz Reizenstein and Walter Leigh), and came out of the process most like his teacher. However, the Rondo is more approachable than some of his other compositions. You can get an estimate of its composition date from the copyright notice on your part.
The title gives you the basic form, but it's not quite as simple as many classical rondos, because each of the ritornelli is slightly or substantially different and (to my eyes and ears) the section from E to F mixes material from the second episode with the ritornello subject, so is a sort of development section. Also, there is an extra bar in the return of the second episode at G and some harmonic changes, as well as some interchange of material between the players (compare the 7 bars before H with the corresponding ones before C). A coda is not unusual in any rondo, but I will let you make up your own mind where it starts.
Don't take my word for any of this analysis. You should look at the score and verify it for yourself or find a better interpretation.
baroquebassoon
Mar 28 2005, 10:06 PM
KISS
Keep It Simple, Stupid
You get full marks, you only need to do grade 7 pieces, so dont go and try to do your best diploma pieces, with lip trills and other advanced techniques (this info is from experience
saxlover
Mar 29 2005, 12:27 PM
to get full marks you need to play grade 7pieces.great so when i paly grade 6 pieces badly ive got no hope
hornplayer
Mar 29 2005, 09:28 PM
Baroque bassoon, my pieces are secure I was just wondering if any of the horn players out there had any advice towards these specific pieces. And neither require lip trills, (and my lip trills are pretty good.)
Clarinetlover, don't worry if you are playing grade 6 pieces, because the A2 performance is about playing piece(s) which are at a standard you feel comfortable playing at, and enjoying them.
Remember its out of 90, so you only need to score 72 to get an A, not full marks. Also, the viav voce section will be your chance to show the examiner how well you know your pieces, not discuss why you are not playing pieces of a higher standard!!! don't fret over it, because its not worth it!!
Thanks kenm, I had looked at the details of the rondo, but I have to rely on how well I can remember the piano part, as my accompanist is busy over Easter practicing, as the recital is 3 days after Easter ends.
hgirl
Apr 11 2005, 09:25 PM
Hi Hornplayer!
im just home from nyo- so nice to finally meet u!
This was compiled from various internet sites:
Cooke was born in November 1906 near Leeds. He was educated at Repton School, later obtaining his BMus at Cambridge University in 1929. From then until 1932 he was a pupil of Hindemith at the Hochschul for Musik in Berlin.
After completing his studies, he became Director of Music at the Festival Theatre, Cambridge, and was later appointed professor of Harmony and Composition at the then Royal Manchester College (now Royal Northern College) of Music from 1933 to 1938. During the war he served with the Royal Navy, and after the termination of hostilities his compositions enjoyed a growing number of performances, the chamber music making a particularly strong impression. He took his MusD at Cambridge in 1948, a year after he had been appointed professor of harmony and composition at Trinity College of Music, London, where he taught for many years.
His compositions, characterized by openness of texture and directness of appeal, have been widely performed.
— February 1996
Arnold Atkinson Cooke was born at Gomersal, Yorkshire on the 4th November 1906 as the second son of Reginald Cooke who worked in the family owned carpet manufacturing business in nearby Liversedge. As a child of seven or eight he began playing the piano and was educated initially at Streete Preparatory School, Westgate-on-Sea and later on at Repton School, where in 1921 he took up the cello and was first taught composition. On leaving Repton he entered Caius College, Cambridge in 1925 to read History. After gaining his BA degree, he switched to the music course. He was president of the Music Society there between 1927-28. In 1929, with his BA in Music he left for Berlin to study composition and piano at the Berlin Academy for Music, where he was a student under Hindemith. After three years he returned to Cambridge to begin his professional career with a short stint as the musical director of the Festival Theatre. A more lasting position became available at the Royal Manchester College of Music as professor of composition, harmony and counterpoint in 1933. The lure of London, being the most eminent centre for music, was too much and he moved there in 1938. The war intervened and he saw service with the navy as a liaison officer but this didn't prevent him from composing. After leaving the navy at the end of the war he spent some time at the family home in Ben Rhydding, Yorkshire before returning to London in 1946, where a year later he took up a professorship at the Trinity College of Music teaching harmony, counterpoint, orchestration and composition where he stayed until his retirement in 1978. He took his doctorate at Cambridge University in 1948. At his Five Oak Green home in Kent he continued to compose late into his life as well as becoming president of the Tonbridge Music Club.
The above details come from a monograph which was written to celebrate his 90th birthday by Eric Wetherell and is published by the The British Music Society. This is the most detailed commissioned piece on his life and work available. Please see 'Contact' for further details.
Rondo in B flat for horn & piano 1950 3.30 Schott & Co
Arnold Cooke was born in November 1906 near Leeds. He was educated at Repton School, later obtaining his BMus at Cambridge University in 1929. From then until 1932 he was a pupil of Hindemith at the Hochschule für Musik in Berlin.
After completing his studies, he became Director of Music at the Festival Theatre, Cambridge, and was later appointed Professor of Harmony and Composition at the then Royal Manchester College (now Royal Northern College) of Music from 1933 to 1938. During the war he served with the Royal Navy, and after the termination of hostilities his compositions enjoyed a growing number of performances, chamber music making a particularly strong impression. He took his MusD at Cambridge in 1948, a year after he had been appointed Professor of Harmony and Composition at Trinity College of Music, where he taught for many years.
His compositions, characterised by openness of texture and directness of appeal, have been widely performed. His most important works include the Symphony 1 (1947) first performed by the BBC Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Sir Adrian Boult in March 1949; the Violin Concerto (1958) first performed by Yfrah Neaman and the Halle Orchestra under Sir John Barbirolli in 1959, and the Cello Concerto (1974) first performed in 1975 by Thomas Igloi, and the BBC Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Sir Charles Grove
This is what I actually wrote in my prg.notes:
Arnold Atkinson Cooke was born in November 1906. He first studied piano before taking up the cello at fifteen, also the age he first studied composition formally. He read History and then Music at Cambridge, gaining his B.Mus in 1929. From 1929 until 1932 he was a pupil of Hindemith at the Hochschule für Musik in Berlin. In all of his compositions, Cooke adhered to Hindemith’s anti-serial maxim: ‘Music, as long as it exists, will take its departure from the major triad and return to it.’1 After the war, Cooke’s work became increasingly popular. His chamber music was particularly successful, although he also wrote for full orchestra.
Cooke’s compositions, characterised by their ‘openness of texture and directness of appeal’2 are still widely performed, and the Rondo in Bb is no exception. It was written in 1950 and since then has become something of a standard for horn players, with its full exploitation of the instrument’s range and volume capacities showing off the horn to its best advantage.
This ‘Rondo’ with the 6/8 time signature and triadic motifs, bears more than a passing resemblance to not only the final movement of Strauss’s First Horn Concerto, but also to the finales of the Mozart Horn Concertos. All of these works employ the conventional ‘hunting horn’ style of writing. Cooke’s music has been described as ‘naturally contrapuntal, with a vein of gentle lyricism that frequently comes to the surface’2, and this is evident in the Rondo with lyrical legato episodes inserted between statements of the lively Rondo figure, which is based on the triad of Bb Major.
Rondo in Bb ends triumphantly, with a final fortissimo statement of the Rondo theme from the piano accompanied by sustained notes from the horn. It is an exciting and lively piece, and one that is as enjoyable to play as it is to listen to.
Do u need stuff about Strauss too?
Hope this helps
hgirl
xxx
hornplayer
Apr 15 2005, 04:15 PM
thanks hgirl, it was good timing, as my recital was the next day!
it was cool to finally meet you, thanks for being nice and looking after me. How did the concerts go? hope you're not being bossed around my the front row people, show them that female horn players are just as good as male ones!! lol
well, my recital was last wednesday, and it went really well! No splits, good dynamics and tuning etc.
For the other ppl on the forums doing their recital soon, my questions were (para-phrased);
1. So, you're playing a piece by Arnold Cooke. Tell me about him. (for info on him, see hgirl's last post).
2. How do you approach the Strauss from a performance point of view? (I waffled about how I give each piece of music a picture or story to interpret the music better, I talked about misery and despair for the A sections of the Strauss and the bright and happy mood of the major, sharp key section.)
3. What is the most challenging aspect of either piece, as a horn player? (I mentioned a tricky descening scale figure in the Cooke that also needs more breath support to achieve a crescendo to the bottom note).
and that was it, it felt like it was all over before I knew it!
thanks to everyone who gave horn-related advice.
good luck for everyone's forthcoming recitals
hornplayer xx
saxlover
Apr 15 2005, 08:53 PM
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah so we have to know about the composers as well? my goodness
my pieces are by weird obsucre composers that information on them is as easy to find as a needle in a bloody haystack
hgirl
Apr 16 2005, 02:53 PM
oh it sounds like you answered really well! I'm sure they were really impressed!
The nyo concerts were brilliant, and the back row was definitely better than the front

I had my own part in the Strauss (I was horn 5, there are 6 parts) and it was really good fun. Did you enjoy the one-day course? Is there another one in the summer?
On another note.......I have no idea what to play for my A level recital. Any ideas anyone?
hornplayer
Apr 16 2005, 05:09 PM
The one day course was good, I learnt a lot from Jim Beck, long note practice etc. I liked the modern music night and playing with the orchestra, despite how scared I was. The session on how to practice was slightly condiscending (sp?) but useful all the same. Oh and creative was interesting!!
How long is your recital? Villanelle is always a good show-off piece, Morceau de Concert, Hunters Moon, Pavane for the Dead Princess (my personal favourite), anything from the strauss 1, mozart 2,3,4, Beethoven Horn Sonata, Rondo by Cooke, Hindemith Horn Sonata, etc.
well i think i've managed to name most of the grade 8 and diploma pieces!
look for what the grade pieces you need to play to get full marks for difficulty, because for AQA its only grade 7.
saxlover
Apr 16 2005, 08:53 PM
how much did you actually say in answer to each question? how much detail did you give?
hornplayer
Apr 17 2005, 10:29 AM
my answers weren't so long, about a paragraph's worth for each.
if your pieces are obscure then the examiner is more likely to concentrate on instrumental techniques and your interpretations of the pieces.
Don't worry about it, just concentrate on thinking your answers for obvious questions such as "What are the most technically difficult passages in any of your pieces?" obvious modulations, basic form and any important motifs.
One of the other candidates was asked, "How many different tone qualities can you produce on flute?" so she demonstrated double tonguing, flutter tonguing, vibrato, non-vibrato, staccato, legato, accents etc. They're not out to trick you, just see how well you know your pieces and the techniques and skills required for the instrument you are playing.
I think the best advice to give to to be enthuastic about your pieces, and if you can, guide the examiner to the places in the music you are most comfortable talking about if he gives you a general question such as the technical difficulties.
I went straight to a descending scale pattern in the Cooke because I'd spent a long time going over it with my teacher and in private practice to get the right dynamics (cresc) articulation (staccato), harmony (Gb major scale I think) etc.
If you stop thinking negative thoughts and then realise its your chance to play pieces you know well on a good quality instrument in a nice acoustic to a person who actually knows something about music then your recital will be an enjoyable experience rather than a traumatic one.
hornplayer xx
saxlover
Apr 17 2005, 02:48 PM
id be confident if i could actually play them

does anyone know what its like to paly them, and think what on earth am i palying, knowing its going to fail and then crying your eyes out
i expect not
elmo
Apr 17 2005, 03:54 PM
Come on, yes we've all been there!
You played them for your grade 6 piano, and you passed that did you not? And yes ok it wasn't as good a result as the other results (cough 128) you got, but you did it! You've already played them in an exam situation, so the second time round shouldn't be so bad!
Doesn't matter whether you cry your eyes out now, just as long as you manage to play them in the exam, then cry all you want after wards. Concentrate on the exam, and the relief afterwards, don't think about the time worrying about it in between.
And I'll send you some reiki on wednesday night!
hgirl
Apr 17 2005, 07:52 PM
I think I've got to play for over an hour- but not all at once! It's because I'm doing AS and A2 Music, so I have to do:
AS: -10 minutes solo
- Ensemble (don't know how long!)
A2: 10 minutes solo
30 mins solo (the 10 mins bit is compulsory and then I chose the 30mins as one of my options- you have to have done Grade 8 to pick this)
Ensemble again
I think I'll do the same ensemble piece for both, but I don't know what to do! I was going to do some duets but apparently you have to have 3 people in the ensemble. Do you know anything good hornplayer? I'm thinking of doing the second movement of Konzertstuck.
For the solos I don't know what to do- maybe 3rd mvt of Strauss 1 (I've done the 1st a million times), 1st mvt of Mozart 3, Hunter's Moon....I can't do the Hindemith because I can't get a pianist. I might do the Franz Strauss Nocturno for the AS one...oh decisions decisions!
I'm glad you had a good time at NYO. I enjoyed this course much better than the Christmas one, I got to know lots more people and things weren't so scary! The only problem was missing out on so much schoolwork-I'm really scared! My first exam is the 24th May and I have my German oral next week!
neil.clarinet
Apr 17 2005, 08:19 PM
I'll say it again Natalie. Be positive. If you think negatively, then you HAVE got no chance. As others have said, you have already done grade 6 and passed, so you know you can play the pieces in an exam situation, and you have had time to improve them since.
In the meantime, keep cool, and keep practising. Regular short pratise is better than a few lengthy sessions, but DON'T practise the night before.
Very best of luck.
hornplayer
Apr 18 2005, 09:15 AM
For my AS ensemble (AQA only do ensemble performance for AS) I did Mozart's "The Magic Flute" arranged for four horns by Alan Civil. I cant remember how long it is, 4 sides of A4, only a couple of top Bb, most of the parts are quite challenging, and it might take you a while to get the ensemble working well. If you have 8 horns handy (!) then Beethoven's Egmount (sp?) for 8 horns is good.
Any of the Fripperies by Shaw are also appropriate, and pretty much anything arranged by Alan Civil for 4 horns is good, he's arranged White Christmas, and also composed a short, but quite challenging piece called "Horn Bluff". If you want some horn trios, go to
http://www.dmt.hiway.co.uk/acatalog/ as its cheap, fast to get hold of and is really good for grading difficulty.
this link
http://www.dmt.hiway.co.uk/acatalog/ for june emerson horn duets. also paxman's website do ensemble horn music, although I'm boycoytting Paxmans atm for personal reasons.
Go for Konzertstucke only if you dont have to play that on the same day as the other recitals. Which part are you going to play?
For the ensemble you could try to get an ensemble together for the Brahms Trio, and the Brahms serenade.
Anyway, gtg i'm in a free atm, my first exams (maths ones) are on 24th May! too soon.
hornplayer xx
saxlover
Apr 21 2005, 05:46 PM
Questions I was asked incase anyone wonders!
1. Can you explain to me about the structure of this piece ( A3 Allegro)
2. In this piece there are a lot of semiquavers that need to be clearly articulated and kept steady , tell me how you would practice these etc? (she asked that coz i cant do it!!)
3. Tell me how this piece( Matador C2) is Spanish- or something like that, i cant remember!!!!
4. something about a spanish instrument that the melody could have been written for- heeh i had no idea. and told her so hehe
oasis-rock
Jun 22 2005, 04:00 PM
Hiya.. im new to this site.. lol i found it on the internet whilst trying to find information on Arnold Cooke, and Rondon in B flat as im doing a ATCL Dip next week and have not yet started my programme notes.. silly me, so i just replied to say that i found your notes v. helpful as i cant find anything on the internet.. thanx again..
hgirl
Jul 2 2005, 09:43 PM
QUOTE(oasis-rock @ Jun 22 2005, 04:00 PM)
Hiya.. im new to this site.. lol i found it on the internet whilst trying to find information on Arnold Cooke, and Rondon in B flat as im doing a ATCL Dip next week and have not yet started my programme notes.. silly me, so i just replied to say that i found your notes v. helpful as i cant find anything on the internet.. thanx again..
no problem- I'm glad they were useful! good luck!
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