I am working towards grade 7 piano, and I have to say the scales are a bit if a joke. Legato 3rds, staccato 6ths, contrary of every scale in the group. By the way, I'm doing group two.

Any advice on grade 7 scales?

Why are they a joke?

They are there to improve your technique.There's a thread on scales in a different forum.Do a search.

Just me moaning (as usual).

I assume you mean Nat's thread? I have just relooked at it, but there is not much about the 3rds or 6ths scales. Any advice from all you experts out there?

Make sure you practise them staccato as much as legato. When I took my Grade 7 last year, the examiner asked me to play all the really awkward ones staccato (like contrary chromatics ).

QUOTE (Semele @ Mar 30 2005, 11:04 AM)

Why are they a joke?

Let's get this straight Semele. By this I mean they are hard, and quite mammoth too. I know they are there to improve technique, like all technical exercises lol. OK, I'll shut up now.

QUOTE (neil.clarinet @ Mar 30 2005, 10:12 AM)

Just me moaning (as usual). I assume you mean Nat's thread? I have just relooked at it, but there is not much about the 3rds or 6ths scales. Any advice from all you experts out there?

Ok Neil

You shouldnt need to refer to any books with this method.

The 3rds start off with the LH as normal.Therefore start with the correct finger for the RH.

eg LH Cmajor begin on C with 5th and the RH begin on E ( above the LH C ) with 3rd.

The 6ths start with the RH as normal. Therefore start with the correct finger for the LH.

eg RH CMajor begin on C with 1st and the LH begin on E with the 3rd ( below the C )

Contrary motion: Play the LH alone DESCENDING first.This is quite hard if you haven't tried this before.Now try with your eyes closed.
Next try to picture the pattern that your RH should be playing when playing the LH.

Try playing them together ( I look at my LH,but it's up to you to decide which hand you prefer ).

The harmonic minors. When you have the aug 2nd occurring you won't with the other hand.

Best to start off playing legato rather than staccato and use dotted rhythms slowly at first as these are harder.

Your fingering must be 100% secure.Can you play any scale starting it off in any place?

PS I will never forget learning Eb harmonic contrary.Being too lazy at first to understand why the LH fingering wasn't working out,I eventually sussed out that the LH 3rd must go on the D nat NOT the thumb! This also applies to Bb harmonic too...

hey neil, i hate them too!!

i can barely do them all fast and legato let alone staccato

my hands look like they are deformed when i do the legato 3rds hehe!!

and as for contrary chromatics....well..im fine going outwards but coming back down hehe i dont think so.

i cant do them fullstop

Thank you so much Semele. hug hug

Presumably you have a grade 7 scale book. For the legato 3rds, learn where fingers 3/5 play in each hand, then the rest of the time its either 1/3 or 2/4. Practise it very slowly and listen for each group joining on to the next. Whats wrong with staccato 6ths? Start on E/C with 1/5 then F/D with 1/5, etc same fingering for 2 octaves until you get to E/C, then down again. Same for left hand only its descending first.

For major and minor 3rds in 6ths, (for example Gmajor) make sure you know where the 4th finger plays in the normal scale - RH - F#, LH - A, and then in 3rds check that the 4th finger still plays the same note. Its a good idea to start with 5 notes first, hands separately and together before going on to an octave. I advise my students to work on one octave of these for at least a week, or until the fingering is secure before going any further. I know it sounds complicated, butonce you try it, you should find it easier. Make sure the fingers play the same notes they would in an ordinary G major scale. One more tip! I usualy get my students to start the RH with 3rd finger, because the RH always plays B in G major with 3rd finger. Make sure you spend a bit of time learning the RH of these because it starts on a different note than usual. Start working on the arpeggios one octave at a time too. They can be quite hard to get used to in 1st inversion.
For advice on how to practice grade 7 scales etc, see my response to clarinetlovers topic.

QUOTE (neil.clarinet @ Mar 30 2005, 10:41 AM)

Thank you so much Semele. hug hug

Awwww Neil..thankyou. Just hope it helps you.

Noodle wants one too

Noodle and Neil. I find the alternative fingering best for double thirds/chromatic thirds. What do you think?

QUOTE (Semele @ Mar 30 2005, 12:55 PM)

Noodle and Neil. I find the alternative fingering best for double thirds/chromatic thirds. What do you think?

Sorry, I don't have a scale book handy. I'm not sure if my fingering is the first fingering or the alternative. Will get back to you on that one. Chromatic 3rds - the grade 8 ones?

QUOTE (noodle @ Mar 30 2005, 01:09 PM)

QUOTE (Semele @ Mar 30 2005, 12:55 PM) Noodle and Neil. I find the alternative fingering best for double thirds/chromatic thirds. What do you think? Sorry, I don't have a scale book handy. I'm not sure if my fingering is the first fingering or the alternative. Will get back to you on that one. Chromatic 3rds - the grade 8 ones?

Yes.Off the top of my head the fingering for chromatic LH - A#/C# 4/2 5/1 4/2 3/1 4/1 and the double 3rds eg LH 5/3 4/2 3/1 5/3 4/2 3/1 2/1

Takes ages to type this lot out on the computer,doesn't it?

Reading through Noodle's posting again...

Another handy hint for similar motion.

Eb and Bb majors begin with 3rd fingers. For the minors begin with 2nds.

As Noodle points out all it's all down to those 4th fingers

QUOTE (Semele @ Mar 30 2005, 02:46 PM)

Yes.Off the top of my head the fingering for chromatic LH - A#/C# 4/2 5/1 4/2 3/1 4/1 and the double 3rds eg LH 5/3 4/2 3/1 5/3 4/2 3/1 2/1

I think I learnt the first fingering for the double 3rds and chromatics. I think some of my students use the alternative fingering for the chromatics because they find it easier, just as long as they don't use a combination of the two!