I'm just wondering about which grade would be right to start at, since if I try a piece once and fail, I would like to know whether it would be right for me to assume that I do, in fact, suck at Piano!
Just wonderin'...
Full Version: Question For Pianists...
How long does it take you to learn to play an average piece at the grade you are working at?
I'm just wondering about which grade would be right to start at, since if I try a piece once and fail, I would like to know whether it would be right for me to assume that I do, in fact, suck at Piano!
Just wonderin'...
I'm just wondering about which grade would be right to start at, since if I try a piece once and fail, I would like to know whether it would be right for me to assume that I do, in fact, suck at Piano!
Just wonderin'...
Well it depends on the piece and how much time I have to spend on it. That's really not a very accurate guage of what level you're at, though. It's not so much the time it takes you to learn a piece as it is the ability you have to play the piece. Talk to your teacher about it, I'm sure they'll be able to help!
This is a very interesting question and one that's had me going for a while, how long should it take to learn a piece. This is additionally clouded by when one says that one can play a piece: just get through it from start to end (but maybe with some unevenness, hesitation or wrong notes), play it through fluently, or polish it to a high standard. I'd certainly be going for one of the second two but there's a huge range even in those...
It begs the interesting question what makes a grade 8 pianist better than a grade 1 pianist? I don't think it's down to pure ability to physically play a certain piece, I think that anyone could play anything (that's physically possible) given enough time (although for some really difficult pieces it may be just as efficient to learn for 10 years and then start to play them rather than to start now!). I think that it's related to time taken to learn a piece and the quality of the end result. As a result of the facts that one can take as long as one wants to learn the pieces for a given grade (within a 2 1/2 year limit), the end results of the quality of the pieces varies and that musicality in playing develops at different rates, I don't think that it's possible to say that a grade 8 player is necessarily a 'better pianist' than a grade 6 player.
What has this got to do with your question? Well how long you take to learn a piece determining what grade you're on, yes I'd agree that's a reasonably good benchmark (far better than the one many people seem to use of which pieces can you physically manage to play) but still you have a choice of which grade you could fit yourself into, you also need to answer the question (to yourself I don't think it's possible to articulate in words) how well do you want to be able to play these pieces when you've learnt them: pass standard, distinction standard, concert pianist standard etc. (or just think how you will like it to sound). Then you can select what grade you want to be on based on how long you want it to take to learn pieces and how good you what them to be when learnt. There will be some people who are better than you doing higher grades and some people worse than you doing higher grades; similarly there will be some people who are better than you doing lower grades and some who are worse than you doing lower grades, really what grade you're on tells you just what standard of pieces you choose to tackle.
Having said all that if you really want a quick answer to this question in my opinion the most telling thing is the sightreading. So look at the sightreading for a few different grades and then see which one you can do. This is likely to be the level that you're at as it'll determine the level of pieces you can tackle as well as how well you'll be able to play them in a certain length of time.
It begs the interesting question what makes a grade 8 pianist better than a grade 1 pianist? I don't think it's down to pure ability to physically play a certain piece, I think that anyone could play anything (that's physically possible) given enough time (although for some really difficult pieces it may be just as efficient to learn for 10 years and then start to play them rather than to start now!). I think that it's related to time taken to learn a piece and the quality of the end result. As a result of the facts that one can take as long as one wants to learn the pieces for a given grade (within a 2 1/2 year limit), the end results of the quality of the pieces varies and that musicality in playing develops at different rates, I don't think that it's possible to say that a grade 8 player is necessarily a 'better pianist' than a grade 6 player.
What has this got to do with your question? Well how long you take to learn a piece determining what grade you're on, yes I'd agree that's a reasonably good benchmark (far better than the one many people seem to use of which pieces can you physically manage to play) but still you have a choice of which grade you could fit yourself into, you also need to answer the question (to yourself I don't think it's possible to articulate in words) how well do you want to be able to play these pieces when you've learnt them: pass standard, distinction standard, concert pianist standard etc. (or just think how you will like it to sound). Then you can select what grade you want to be on based on how long you want it to take to learn pieces and how good you what them to be when learnt. There will be some people who are better than you doing higher grades and some people worse than you doing higher grades; similarly there will be some people who are better than you doing lower grades and some who are worse than you doing lower grades, really what grade you're on tells you just what standard of pieces you choose to tackle.
Having said all that if you really want a quick answer to this question in my opinion the most telling thing is the sightreading. So look at the sightreading for a few different grades and then see which one you can do. This is likely to be the level that you're at as it'll determine the level of pieces you can tackle as well as how well you'll be able to play them in a certain length of time.
I think it changes with the grade too.
Someone who is 'grade 1 level' is probably able to learn their pieces inside about a month.
At 'grade 8 level' it might take 6 months to learn one piece.
The length makes a difference and also the ability to work on something for longer and with better concentration.
If you can pick up something and play it straight off then you don't need to learn it.... if you want to do that all the time then you will never progress.
It is by working on the things you can't do yet that you get on.
Someone who is 'grade 1 level' is probably able to learn their pieces inside about a month.
At 'grade 8 level' it might take 6 months to learn one piece.
The length makes a difference and also the ability to work on something for longer and with better concentration.
If you can pick up something and play it straight off then you don't need to learn it.... if you want to do that all the time then you will never progress.
It is by working on the things you can't do yet that you get on.
| QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Mar 31 2005, 01:26 PM) |
Having said all that if you really want a quick answer to this question in my opinion the most telling thing is the sightreading. So look at the sightreading for a few different grades and then see which one you can do. This is likely to be the level that you're at as it'll determine the level of pieces you can tackle as well as how well you'll be able to play them in a certain length of time. |
I agree entirely with the above quote and the whole of AnotherPianist's post above. Well said, if I may say so!
Grades test the all round ability and sightreading is a really essential component and this is why I have never thought that Performance Assessment was for me, nor a benchmark for judging true ability and standard achieved. Anyone can play "hard" pieces if they stick at them long enough but that's not the full picture is it?
Goes off to practise some more sightreading
Hello 
It takes me about ten minutes to learn some of the more difficult Rachmaninov pieces and five minutes for most other pieces. The problem is my alarm clock wakes me up and I then have to get out of bed into the real world.
I find that some pieces in the grades ( I am just starting grade 3 pieces)suit me and for example...I learned Passepied without the trills at the moment in about 3 weeks...and am playing it to an acceptable level....However I am finding the other pieces much more difficult...and I need the help of my teacher to progress on these...
It seems to be the pieces I'd like to play are the difficult ones...so I end up playing the easier ones for me....which aren't always the most interesting...
Ah well... back to the keyboard..
BFN Mike
It takes me about ten minutes to learn some of the more difficult Rachmaninov pieces and five minutes for most other pieces. The problem is my alarm clock wakes me up and I then have to get out of bed into the real world.
I find that some pieces in the grades ( I am just starting grade 3 pieces)suit me and for example...I learned Passepied without the trills at the moment in about 3 weeks...and am playing it to an acceptable level....However I am finding the other pieces much more difficult...and I need the help of my teacher to progress on these...
It seems to be the pieces I'd like to play are the difficult ones...so I end up playing the easier ones for me....which aren't always the most interesting...
Ah well... back to the keyboard..
BFN Mike
| QUOTE (PlinkPlonkMan @ Mar 31 2005, 07:03 PM) |
| Hello B) :D It takes me about ten minutes to learn some of the more difficult Rachmaninov pieces and five minutes for most other pieces. The problem is my alarm clock wakes me up and I then have to get out of bed into the real world. |
Like it!
I average about 5 weeks for a piece, sometimes less sometimes more (I remember when i remembered the notes of a certain piece in on week, without stops, although it took me about 2-3 more weeks to get everything else right.)
For me, it depends a lot on if I like the piece. It's not always possible to - for me anyway to like some of the exam pieces.
I've just swapped from LCM to AB G4 because I just couldn't take to the pieces. I did try for quite a few weeks but just couldn't.
After that, I had learnt all 3 pieces in about a month. Usually need just polishing up after that.
Fiona
I've just swapped from LCM to AB G4 because I just couldn't take to the pieces. I did try for quite a few weeks but just couldn't.
After that, I had learnt all 3 pieces in about a month. Usually need just polishing up after that.
Fiona
Definately it does depend on whether you like the piece or not. what you are learning the piece for and how many other pieces you are studying.
I usually study 2 pieces at a time and that usually takes me AT LEAST 13 weeks after which i might just have the pieces in sort of okay condition.
However i have been playing a chopin nocturne for about 10 months because in knew that i was playing it in the national eistedfod. you see what i mean.
Really you should never STOP learning a piece, keep coming back to old repertoire. You will find that if you pick up a piece you were playing say 3 months ago, and try it again... something amazing happens - all of a sudden you have the musical ability and maturity to REINTERPERATE the piece and play it MUCH better than you would have 12 weeks prior.
I usually study 2 pieces at a time and that usually takes me AT LEAST 13 weeks after which i might just have the pieces in sort of okay condition.
However i have been playing a chopin nocturne for about 10 months because in knew that i was playing it in the national eistedfod. you see what i mean.
Really you should never STOP learning a piece, keep coming back to old repertoire. You will find that if you pick up a piece you were playing say 3 months ago, and try it again... something amazing happens - all of a sudden you have the musical ability and maturity to REINTERPERATE the piece and play it MUCH better than you would have 12 weeks prior.
Thanks for the response, some interesting views there!
I realise that my question was rather open, and it would have been stupid to expect a definitive figure, but these responses have further encouraged me to learn piano (along with the fact that I envy all pianists
).
This topic has also got me thinking about many other interesting things, but sadly I have to much homework to do and cannot stay on long
Thank you again for the response, though. I'll reply again when I've got less homework and I'm not as tired
I realise that my question was rather open, and it would have been stupid to expect a definitive figure, but these responses have further encouraged me to learn piano (along with the fact that I envy all pianists
).This topic has also got me thinking about many other interesting things, but sadly I have to much homework to do and cannot stay on long
Thank you again for the response, though. I'll reply again when I've got less homework and I'm not as tired
Reply #2...with me more awake...
What compelled me to ask this question was something that my music teacher said a couple of years ago (not instrumental teacher, school subject music). In Year 8, in some music lessons we worked through these keyboard booklets, which progressed steadily in difficulty. A few lessons in, I was ahead of the majority of the class (wasn't quite the most musical class...), and our teacher told us that we shouldn't spend too long trying to perfect one exercise/piece, and that if we found ourselves doing that, we should move back a few exercises. Being ahead, part of me assumed that this comment was aimed at me, which is what made me wonder how long pianists generally take to learn a piece; I was presuming extremely quickly! Now, after reading through this topic however, it seems pretty obvious that she was talking to those in the class who were still learning to read music etc, as learning the basics shouldn't be taken too fast. Damn paranoia.
AnotherPianist, thank you for clearing this up. You have certainly made it much easier for me (and most likely, any other budding pianists out there) where I stand. I seem to have been under some disillusion that pianists could pick up and play any piece for the grade they are working at! Perhaps it is just because the pieces seem rather overwhelming compared to the single-staved music I am used to, making pianists appear to me as extremely gifted!
Takig your advice, I have been looking at sample pages from specimen sight reading books for Grades 1/2, and they seem remarkably simple to pick up and play, as opposed to main pieces. Not quite so demoralising! The scale/arpeggio requirements for Grades 1/2 seem pretty simple too.
PlinkPlonkMan, you had me pretty damn shocked there for a moment! It wasn't even April 1st then...
Music Through Time for Piano: Book 1 and Selected Examination Pieces Grade 1 2005/2006: Piano are on order...all I need now is a way to make my bass clef reading as instinctive as my treble!
Thank you again to everybody who has replied in this topic, you have been a great help!
What compelled me to ask this question was something that my music teacher said a couple of years ago (not instrumental teacher, school subject music). In Year 8, in some music lessons we worked through these keyboard booklets, which progressed steadily in difficulty. A few lessons in, I was ahead of the majority of the class (wasn't quite the most musical class...), and our teacher told us that we shouldn't spend too long trying to perfect one exercise/piece, and that if we found ourselves doing that, we should move back a few exercises. Being ahead, part of me assumed that this comment was aimed at me, which is what made me wonder how long pianists generally take to learn a piece; I was presuming extremely quickly! Now, after reading through this topic however, it seems pretty obvious that she was talking to those in the class who were still learning to read music etc, as learning the basics shouldn't be taken too fast. Damn paranoia.
AnotherPianist, thank you for clearing this up. You have certainly made it much easier for me (and most likely, any other budding pianists out there) where I stand. I seem to have been under some disillusion that pianists could pick up and play any piece for the grade they are working at! Perhaps it is just because the pieces seem rather overwhelming compared to the single-staved music I am used to, making pianists appear to me as extremely gifted!
Takig your advice, I have been looking at sample pages from specimen sight reading books for Grades 1/2, and they seem remarkably simple to pick up and play, as opposed to main pieces. Not quite so demoralising! The scale/arpeggio requirements for Grades 1/2 seem pretty simple too.
PlinkPlonkMan, you had me pretty damn shocked there for a moment! It wasn't even April 1st then...
Music Through Time for Piano: Book 1 and Selected Examination Pieces Grade 1 2005/2006: Piano are on order...all I need now is a way to make my bass clef reading as instinctive as my treble!
Thank you again to everybody who has replied in this topic, you have been a great help!
If I had no school, I would take about a week, considering practising non-stop for 8+ hours
But in my reality now, no, that's not going to happen.
It will prob take 1 month from all the work I'm having.
But in my reality now, no, that's not going to happen.
It will prob take 1 month from all the work I'm having.
| QUOTE (MattD @ Mar 31 2005, 12:45 AM) |
| How long does it take you to learn to play an average piece at the grade you are working at? |
It rather depends what you want to do with the piece. The late Julius Katchen had been performing his repertoire in public, to great critical acclaim, for about 20 years when he decided to take a sabbatical year, in which he would not perform, but just reconsider how to perform every item in his repertoire.
I heard Murray Perahia describe how he prepares for a concerto performance. He doesn't practise it before the rehearsal (unless he has never played it before; anything in his repertoire remains note perfect), but on the way to the concert hall (usually by air) he runs through the piece in his head (from memory, of course) to remind himself what he usually does (by way of dynamics and speeds and their variation) and decide whether to do anything different.
Learning a piece can take a lifetime.
| QUOTE (MattD @ Mar 31 2005, 12:45 AM) |
| How long does it take you to learn to play an average piece at the grade you are working at? I'm just wondering about which grade would be right to start at, since if I try a piece once and fail, I would like to know whether it would be right for me to assume that I do, in fact, suck at Piano! Just wonderin'... |
To learn a piece is quick for me, but to get it perfect really takes a longer time.
If I practise for like an hour a day, I can play a grade 5/6 in a week, but thats only if I try rrrrreeeaaaallllyyyyy hard!lol If not then probably about five weeks to make a grade 5 perfect... but then again im not very good!LOL
| QUOTE (MattD @ Mar 31 2005, 12:45 AM) |
| How long does it take you to learn to play an average piece at the grade you are working at? |
perfectly? ............... a few months. depends which grade though because im working on two at the moment
I love sight-reading so I guess about 2 to 5 minutes.
I want to tackle the Listz B minor sonata, and at a page a day (in my dreams) I'll be looking at about 3 years!
It takes me on average about three weeks to learn a piece.
First week = Hands separate
Second week = Together
Third week = Tidying the piece up
Sometimes, I might have to do dynamics, but very unlikely
First week = Hands separate
Second week = Together
Third week = Tidying the piece up
Sometimes, I might have to do dynamics, but very unlikely
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