just wondering whether everyone would use the metronome when practising your piano pieces...I had tried to post this thing in the student's forum...but really confused as it hasn't been posted onto it after a long long time....my teacher has been nagging me to use the metronome and I just don't listen to her...

I use the metronome sometimes but not all the time because 1) it is very annoying and 2) it limits the amount freedom you have with the piece, with retards and such. But yeah, it's good to use sometimes.

All posts are delayed in the student's forum. They have to be monitored first. I really don't see why it's only on that forum though...

when you have got the hang of the song i use a metro cos then i know how fast to go

QUOTE (love_piano @ Mar 31 2005, 05:37 AM)

just wondering whether everyone would use the metronome when practising your piano pieces...I had tried to post this thing in the student's forum...but really confused as it hasn't been posted onto it after a long long time....my teacher has been nagging me to use the metronome and I just don't listen to her...  :unsure:

Yes, I use a metronome occasionally during piano practice, because it's the only way to detect unconscious speed variations. Another useful mode is for a passage that is way beyond ones capability, where it is essential to play very slowly for accuracy but tempting to speed up. One can then leave the slow setting until one can achieve reliable total accuracy and set the metronome one notch higher for the next set of repetitions.

I also insist that we use it in our wind quintet, wherever there is a passage that persistently falls apart. This is a great challenge, because it is vital that every player listen only to the metronome, and not to the others, which is what we should be doing the rest of the time. That usually demands that we forget about the marked dynamic and all play as quietly as possible, so that we can hear the metronome at all.

In most situations, I am using the metronome to sort out a technical or coordination problem, but it is also useful when it is a precise indication of what the composer thought was an acceptable speed.* However, one should not insist on exact adherence to this instruction: IMO, 5% or 10% variation can be justified by technical difficulties and at least as much by the acoustics of the performing space.

* Only from Beethoven onward: before that it must be an editor's view.

I hate using the metronome while i play...it just freak me out....

Just a hint......

When using a metronome, don't just listen to it and try to keep in time with the ticks.

Instead, always THINK THE BEATS IN YOUR HEAD TOO, and keep that in time with the metronome.

.......a subtle difference when written on paper, but in practice it means the metronome becomes easier to keep in time with, as you're counting in your head too (as we always are, or should be, even subconsciously - the professional musician's ticking clock [not actual numbers, just a subconscious beat])

If your teacher is suggesting that you use it, there must be a reason. But you should use it in a focused way.

1) If there is a particular section that your timing is wrong, just practise that section with the metronome.
2) use it to check tempo variations between sections - Beethovens Pathetique is a classic example for this one, you should check that all the grave sections are at the same speed, that you don't vary between subjects etc.
3) to check the overall tempo of the piece.

Hope this helps, I find just switching it on and playing through the piece is useless, especially if the piece needs rubato, it needs focus.

Good luck

QUOTE (Digby @ Apr 5 2005, 10:06 AM)

1) If there is a particular section that your timing is wrong, just practise that section with the metronome. 2) use it to check tempo variations between sections - Beethovens Pathetique is a classic example for this one, you should check that all the grave sections are at the same speed, that you don't vary between subjects etc. 3) to check the overall tempo of the piece. Hope this helps, I find just switching it on and playing through the piece is useless, especially if the piece needs rubato, it needs focus.

I'd agree with Digby on all of these points.

The worst thing I find about using a metronome is that it can give a mechanical feel to your playing without your even noticing it....

QUOTE (love_piano @ Mar 31 2005, 05:37 AM)

just wondering whether everyone would use the metronome when practising your piano pieces...I had tried to post this thing in the student's forum...but really confused as it hasn't been posted onto it after a long long time....

I responded to it there earlier today and there had been several responses before mine. Perhaps the moderators could combine the two threads?

Has anyone used a tape recorder to play back to student where consistent tempo is proving a problem. Playing with a metronome is just so inflexible.

I know it's frustrating, but it's also useful as a means of developing that subconscious "metronome in your head".



Amber
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I sometimes use a metromome, but usually I would use a tape recorder so then you have a better idea of what your piece sounds like when you're playing it.

I tend to use an electronic metronome as the ticking really annoys me when I am playing and with the electronic metronomes you can mute the sound so you just have the visual aid to keep you in time. I also have the traditional metronome, and that is really good as it has the option to sound a bell for the start fo a bar, but only in certain time signatures.

As I mentioned earlier in this discussion, I find a metronome of almost zero benefit and I can explain why.

Metronome markings are most often supplied by editors anyway. I can fairly accurately count aloud in seconds (i.e. metronome 60), and if the instruction says 70 I know to go a wee bit quicker. I find it hard to count much slower than this, so if the tempo is slower I end up breaking down counts to quavers or whatever.

In any case, it is more important that the piece ends up going at a pace that makes sense musically to the performer, and in the right spirit. For "Andante" I look for flow. For "Allegro" I concentrate on the "lively" definition. Allegretto is rather lively. etc.

Now looking at playing with a metronome - are we missing the whole point here? A human simply cannot play with such military precision. A listener is often unaware of the minor shifts in tempo which after all just underline the human qualities of the performer.

More major discrepancies are best highlighted with a tape recorder and some pencilled arrows on the score as a reminder. Over the longer term, I believe that a performer will gradually improve on tempo consistency with experience - this is in fact the case with me.

And now you know why my metronome is obsolete!!

I agree. It is easy to work out 3 important tempos and gauge other tempos from these:- 1 beat each second = 60 bpm..... 2 beats each second = 120 bpm....3 beats each second = 180. The other tempos can be judged reasonably accurately using these and through interpretation of the music and its style.
Metronomes are handy for those pupils who may want to use them as a reference of various tempos and italian terms. Most of them are marked with these tempo markings i.e. adagio, andante, Allegro etc. These always come in handy for pupils to keep checking when they are first learning. I also think they are sometimes worthwile when a pupil is practicing scales and excercises and wants to keep a strict rhythm. Also, when a pupil has a particular weakness with their rhythm, its occasional use can be of benefit.

Gae

I seem to remember that thread in the Student forum, and I think I said it can help to use a metronome, but use with care. Something like Bach that is metronomically rigid, then yes. More contemporary pieces may need more flexibility, so a metronome would not work. It is good for spotting unrythmic playing when it should be in time, but eventually you have to play without.

I think even in contemporary stuff it can help to get the basic rhythm, then when you have that, THEN you can start to play with it. But not good to overuse it obviously.

QUOTE (Gae @ May 19 2005, 10:25 PM)

Metronomes are handy for those pupils who may want to use them as a reference of various tempos and italian terms. Most of them are marked with these tempo markings i.e. adagio, andante, Allegro etc. I also think they are sometimes worthwile when a pupil is practising scales and excercises and wants to keep a strict rhythm. Also, when a pupil has a particular weakness with their rhythm, its occasional use can be of benefit. Gae

Do you use Italian terms on the metronome simply as a way of arranging terms from slow to fast? I have found the metronome ranges ascribed to terms as useless.

For example - Andante 76 to 108 - what practical use is that? 76 and 108 are worlds apart.

Larghetto is 60 to 66, while Largo is 40 to 60. Larghetto then is a prescriptive pace almost, while Largo is 50 plus or minus 20 per cent. Really? Who said?

If you have an Italian term on a piece but no suggested metronome marking, then mood of piece becomes the driver - not a ready reckoner.

While I was saying that military precise pulse is unrealistic and even undesirable for whole pieces of music (and yes I will throw Bach in there), I have never had problems getting a scale at a consistent tempo. I can't think of any confusion factors - or motivation for accelerating them, or for flagging. i.e. The metronome would rarely tell the performer anything new about an utterly repetitive technical item like a scale.

QUOTE

I have never had problems getting a scale at a consistent tempo.

You may well not have - many people do. And evenness of scales is often more of a problem than consistent speed, where a metronome can also help.

i have a digital piano and that has a recorder and metronome on it. the metronome annoys me but DOES help to keep me in time, and i can record when im playing and then listen to it.

QUOTE (crazy_purple_piano_freak @ May 20 2005, 06:11 PM)

i have a digital piano and that has a recorder and metronome on it. the metronome annoys me but DOES help to keep me in time, and i can record when im playing and then listen to it.

I've got a digital piano as well, which you can change the tempo. It also has a metronome. It is very useful because it has got some of the pieces which I am learning at the moment such as Arabesque.