Hi,

I am teaching myself the flute and recently bought a book with simple tunes and a CD accompaniment. However, when I play along with the CD I think I sound slightly flat. My hunch is it's either a postural or breathing problem, or maybe both knowing me!

I've tried experimenting with doing things differently but haven't been able to solve it. I wondered if anyone has any tips or thoughts as to where I'm going wrong. The books I've found just show how to play the notes, not give any advice on quality of tone.

Please can someone advise. (Help!)

Many thanks



Amber
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The most likely cause is rolling the flute in towards you too much as you play. Your bottom lip should be covering around 1/3 of the hole, and definitely not more than 1/2.

I'm assuming that you haven't got the headjoint pulled out an enormous amount; most flutes are in tune with it pulled out a few millimetres.

You should also check the cork position by sticking the bottom end of your cleaning rod into the headjoint and seeing if the line on it appears half-way along the hole you blow across.

It is often hard playing with a CD has it is hard to get in tune.
Have you tried tuning with a tuner?

Sorry can't really add much to what andante_in_c has said.

Good luck with the flute playing

Make sure you push the end of the flute forward & hold it firmly against your chin/ lower lip - you should have a callus/ dent in your LH where the first finger supports the flute. That may be part of the problem. Also your rh thumb should be pushing the flute forwards rather than wedged right underneath. can you tune at least to a piano before you try playing with the cd. You'll start flat if the flute is cold then sharpen as it warms up.

As well as the lip position mentioned above. Make sure that you stand straight and that your flute is almsot parralel to the floor. This makes sure that the sound is open. Also when you play a note make sure you 'play to the end of the flute' as my teacher tells me every lesson! Sounds strange I know, but it helps give a fuller sound. Just try experimenting with different things. Remerb that it is difficult playing to a CD as you cant really tune properly so I wouldnt worry too much.

Beginnners often do sound flat, partly because you're playing slowly while you think about fingerings etc., so you tend to play softly, and also because it takes a while to get that pucker under control enough to produce a fast, focused stream of air. Also, if you're only playing a short while, your flute is probably not warming up properly (cold flutes are flatter). Try holding a hand over the end of your flute and blowing into it several times.

The net result is that you are probably producing a slowmoving stream of air, which produces a flatter pitch (fast air a sharper pitch...players make slight adjustments to their degree of "roll-out" as they play.

Please correct me if I've got it all wrong, somebody!

Wow, thanks everyone. That gives me so much to go on with. I didn't know any of this, so I really appreciate your comments. Hopefully I shall be able to post back shortly that I've sorted out the problem.

Again, many thanks.



Amber
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QUOTE (Amber @ Mar 31 2005, 05:55 PM)

My hunch is it's either a postural or breathing problem, or maybe both knowing me!

Have you tried changing the reed????

Are you sure it's not the CD going sharp?

I know my CDs go sharp when I sing with them. So does the piano when the accompanist plays it

Cheers

Katyjay

Is that the same problem as my metronome going faster when I get to the difficult bits?

QUOTE (andante_in_c @ Apr 1 2005, 10:37 AM)

Is that the same problem as my metronome going faster when I get to the difficult bits?

i swear that was happening to me yesterday, honestly!!!

QUOTE (andante_in_c @ Apr 1 2005, 09:37 AM)

Is that the same problem as my metronome going faster when I get to the difficult bits?

Definitely. It's a conspiracy, you see......

QUOTE (noodle @ Apr 1 2005, 09:26 AM)

QUOTE (Amber @ Mar 31 2005, 05:55 PM) My hunch is it's either a postural or breathing problem, or maybe both knowing me! Have you tried changing the reed????

No I've checked the reed and that's fine. Maybe there's a hole in one of the bellows?

QUOTE (katyjay @ Apr 1 2005, 09:44 AM)

QUOTE (andante_in_c @ Apr 1 2005, 09:37 AM) Is that the same problem as my metronome going faster when I get to the difficult bits? Definitely. It's a conspiracy, you see......

Ah, you've got one of those MetroGnomes. They're trickly little blighters.

Hi!

I think it is difficult to play in tune will the cd. However, it's better and easy to play in tune with the bands as you'll be do the tuning more time than with the cd. You can also buy a tuner to tune your flute before play with the cd! Some tuners are not so expensive, you can buy one and try! But the most important thing is hear your sound is in tune or not when you playing everytime. I hope my opinion can help you!

Good luck!

QUOTE (Amber @ Apr 1 2005, 10:50 AM)

QUOTE (katyjay @ Apr 1 2005, 09:44 AM) QUOTE (andante_in_c @ Apr 1 2005, 09:37 AM) Is that the same problem as my metronome going faster when I get to the difficult bits? Definitely. It's a conspiracy, you see...... Ah, you've got one of those MetroGnomes. They're trickly little blighters.

Uh...I thought MetroGnomes were commuters in Zurich.....

Cheers

Katyjay

I know this is going to sound naive, but tuning had never even occurred to me before I bought the CD. Because the notes sounded OK (well OK-ish!) in relation to each, I never even thought about overall tuning.

Is there any benefit to having a special flute tuner rather than checking the tuning using my clavinova?

Only if your clavinova goes sharp too.....

QUOTE (Amber @ Apr 1 2005, 10:48 AM)

QUOTE (noodle @ Apr 1 2005, 09:26 AM) QUOTE (Amber @ Mar 31 2005, 05:55 PM) My hunch is it's either a postural or breathing problem, or maybe both knowing me! Have you tried changing the reed???? No I've checked the reed and that's fine. Maybe there's a hole in one of the bellows?

That might be it. Or maybe if you just adjust the bow slightly and put more rosin on it, that would solve the problem. What about tuning the CD player to match your flute!

Make sure your valves are oiled too

I've just this moment received a sales list from a flute shop including... wait for it... a MetroGnome Ear-piece metronome from Korg. If it wasn't for the fact that it was posted before April 1st and some other items on the list are boringly genuine I would suspect a wind-up.

I forgot about that Nicki.

It is easy to forget, but it is such a critical factor in the tuning of a flute

Absolutely! Amber have you tried a new A string?

There is a very obvious reply to noodle's posting but i'm not going to write it. Maybe someone else will?!

I don't think I get what you're saying Andy, so I will just continue rambling!

Have you washed it with washing up liquid? It gives it a lovely sheen and makes your flute sound beautiful!

What does washing up liquid do to the pads - do they shine too? & do you wash your flute before or after the rest of the dishes?

The pads come up beautifully, don't forget to dry them with a tea towel though, and do it before the rest of the dishes so you don't get bits of potato and peas stuck up the flute!

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Apr 1 2005, 12:08 PM)

I don't think I get what you're saying Andy, so I will just continue rambling! Have you washed it with washing up liquid? It gives it a lovely sheen and makes your flute sound beautiful!

I've not tried washing up liquid. I use Ariel Automatic for my other strings and that seems fine.

I wonder what Mr Miyazawa would think about all this? Probably be horrified at the idea of potatoes & peas anywhere near his flutes.
Any ideas how you teach an 8y.o to polish his flute before he puts it away? He remembers to dry it but seems incapable of cleaning his fingermarks off it.

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Apr 1 2005, 12:12 PM)

The pads come up beautifully, don't forget to dry them with a tea towel though, and do it before the rest of the dishes so you don't get bits of potato and peas stuck up the flute!

Good point. Mind you, it has the advantage of turning it into a sort of musical Spud Gun when you next play it.

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Apr 1 2005, 11:39 AM)

Make sure your valves are oiled too

Cheeky!

I actually heard of a flute teacher in America who found one of her pupils' mothers had run the flute through a cycle in the dishwasher.

Oops. dare I ask if it was playable afterwards or had the pads disintegrated.?
But you can cook salmon in a dishwasher can't you?

There are ****TWO**** ways to be flat on the flute. The CD also could be flat in one or both ways:

...the flute needs to be made shorter (push in the headjoint a bit more)

...****the sound is flat in itself (yes indeed - it's to do with the harmonics being out of tune with each other within the note, it seems), so even without the CD , the solo flute sounds flat in relation to itself. Try playing with the air direction more into the hole (to experiment with flat sounds) then up away from the hole (to experiment with sharp sounds), and then keep learning the in-tune place more and more, as your ear and embouchure develop in discernment and flexibility. I call this feature "playing with a flat/sharp SOUND"

---the CD...the flute may be out of tune with the accompaniment (yes, when you get discerning with tuning on the flute, professional playing varies too)

---the CD...the flutist on the CD may be playing with a flat sound (I know of a very prominent flute beginners' tutor/pieces book CD where this is unfortunately the case - but no names, both for copyright reasons, and also out of respect, because when it gets to this aspect of things, it can become a matter of taste. By taste I mean that just as in blues, singers may sing deliberately flat for a note, or a slide, or a song; so also with flute music a style may demand subtle changes in tuning - fast Mozart scale passages are sometimes interpreted with breathy slightly sharp playing (a few decades ago particularly) etc. - and non-flutists will tend to say a flutist has a nice bright sound when actually it's slightly sharp, but it suits the listener's tastes and character - some people dislike James Galway's playing due to preferences of tone (even though he plays so well in tune mostly) and such listener's really dislike a dark rich tone when it goes flat (in an early attempt to sound like Galway). And when you get to the matter of flat and sharp SOUNDS, it's impossible to get in tune with the piano, because the flute is not even being played in tune with itself. From time to time even a professional will play with an out of tune sound, and if it's recorded, you're stuck with it on CD, trying to play along, and if you play in tune with them then it'll sound out of tune in itself, and if you play in tune, it'll sound sharp in relation to them...So if you are aware of this aspect to tuning, you can just say - they're playing with a flat SOUND, so I'll listen to it for an example of expression etc. and as a professional performance, but then use just the piano accompaniment (usually from just one speaker, if not on a separate track) for playing along to generally.

So - two ways to be out of tune. Bad news, but also very good news at the same time, as it can then be sorted out!

Thanks for your detailed reply DomRUK. I'm really glad I posted this thread, I've learned so much from people today.



Amber
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QUOTE (andante_in_c @ Apr 1 2005, 12:22 PM)

I actually heard of a flute teacher in America who found one of her pupils' mothers had run the flute through a cycle in the dishwasher.

I must try that! Do you put the flute in the dishwasher in one piece or in three pieces? I hope cycle B wash at 65 degrees isn't too hot, but I suppose I could tumble dry it afterwards...

Seriously Amber, thanks for posting this thread. We have had a bit of fun in the middle of our stresses, pressures, problems....

Good luck with the flute practice!

Yes, it has made me feel much better, hopefully my flute playing won't sound as bad as it has done over Easter.

It certainly won't be as bad as mine.

Hi Amber,
Thanks again for posting this topic. Most of us have had a bit of fun over the past few days but it gave me the incentive to actually look for my flute. After several hours and the contents of my sliderobes being scattered all over the house I found it and spent most of the afternoon playing it. I hadn't played it for years and years although I did pass grade 5 when I was 15. I was amazed that I could still remember how to play it. I always regretted giving it up, but my teacher was nearly always drunk and my dad said he wasn't going to pay him to teach me bad habits ( when presumably he could do that himself...)

Thanks!

QUOTE (noodle @ Apr 2 2005, 10:01 PM)

but my teacher was nearly always drunk and my dad said he wasn't going to pay him to teach me bad habits ( when presumably he could do that himself...)

That has tickled me plus sticking a flute through the dishwasher...

QUOTE (Semele @ Apr 2 2005, 10:13 PM)

QUOTE (noodle @ Apr 2 2005, 10:01 PM) but my teacher was nearly always drunk and my dad said he wasn't going to pay him to teach me bad habits ( when presumably he could do that himself...) That has tickled me plus sticking a flute through the dishwasher...

Have you read Amber's other topic - Major Vocal Problem? There were a lot of funny responses there too!

QUOTE (noodle @ Apr 2 2005, 10:21 PM)

QUOTE (Semele @ Apr 2 2005, 10:13 PM) QUOTE (noodle @ Apr 2 2005, 10:01 PM) but my teacher was nearly always drunk and my dad said he wasn't going to pay him to teach me bad habits ( when presumably he could do that himself...) That has tickled me plus sticking a flute through the dishwasher... Have you read Amber's other topic - Major Vocal Problem? There were a lot of funny responses there too!

No! But I will do.

Hi everyone,

Just a quick note (no pun intended) of thanks. My flute playing is sounding SO much better. I improved the tone immensely by changing my mouth/breathing position slightly, and I believe I am holding my flute better now too.

Thanks again for all your advice. Had fun last night accompanying my son whilst he played the piano, and I sounded OK for once!



Amber
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Really pleased that as well as having some fun this thread came up with some suggestions that have made a positive difference for you. Happy playing!