hi everyone

i have recently started playing the piano at my school. i am haing trouble fitting both hands together and reading the music at the same time as playing

will they just come with practice or am i doin something wrong?????

reply soon from flute_girl

noo you're not doing anything wrong it will come with practice. you've only just started learning bass clef so it will take a while to get your reading of trhat up to that same standard as your reading of treble clef!

Don't worry at all! Most new pianists face the same problem, I remembered that I did and i believe it drove me up the wall. You'll eventually get a lot better at playing once you practice for a month or two.

Or alternatively, you can always do one hand at a time, and then put it both together, although that might cause some problems (like what you are facing now, not used to putting both hands together.)

Enjoy playing the piano!

(PS: If i say anything wrong, do tell, because I have a bad memory, and i might need telling myself...)

Hi,
When I played the piano, my teacher told me to learn the pieces in stages, one hand at a time and then finally when I could play both parts up to speed putting them together.

Plus getting to know a new clef is hard, but I am sure you will improve fast soon, just be patient and good luck

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Mar 31 2005, 09:53 PM)

Hi, When I played the piano, my teacher told me to learn the pieces in stages, one hand at a time and then finally when I could play both parts up to speed putting them together.

So does my teacher, and if only I had the patience to do this.

NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

not to bring down any teachers methods or anything like that.

My teacher ALWAYS encouraged me to play both hands together from the start.

The traditional teaching method of learning one hand then the other then putting them together is not usually appropriate (but sometimes it is like learning a bach fugue where there is more than one voice). learning seperate hands is not the way forward and it will make the sightreading test in the exam an absolute nightmare. the piano is NOT a one handed instrument so dont make it that way. you will find that if you play hands together from the beginning you will just progress in leaps and bounds.

what you need to do is practice some bass clef sightreading and become familiar with it, i know its a pain but please do.

once you are slightly more familiar with the bass clef try your pieces again.

this is very very important.

QUOTE (khamy @ Mar 31 2005, 10:25 PM)

NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! not to bring down any teachers methods or anything like that. My teacher ALWAYS encouraged me to play both hands together from the start. The traditional teaching method of learning one hand then the other then putting them together is not usually appropriate (but sometimes it is like learning a bach fugue where there is more than one voice). learning seperate hands is not the way forward and it will make the sightreading test in the exam an absolute nightmare. the piano is NOT a one handed instrument so dont make it that way. you will find that if you play hands together from the beginning you will just progress in leaps and bounds.

What makes you think your teacher is right? Common sense should tell anyone that to learn a piano piece it is essential to learn each hand separately and then put them together when each hand is perfect.
As for sight-reading it will improve with practice. It is slightly more difficult for someone used to reading a single stave to have to read two different staves. Once you are more familiar with the bass clef, try very easy sightreading and gradually increase in difficulty.
Flute_girl, you are doing absolutely nothing wrong, but you will need to be very patient and work slowly and carefully. Its a lot more difficult for a flautist/violinist/cellist to take up the piano than for a pianist to take up the flute.
Persevere, you will be fine!!

Flute_girl, it'll come in time!

Re the whole hands-apart-hands-together thing, there are definate benefits to taking apart difficult sections of a piece and starting with the simplest element - this might be separate hands, just the top and bottom notes, just the notes on the beat...

You might find it helpful to take a pencil and draw vertical lines through the notes on the beat in the piece so that you've got another visual clue as to how to put your hands together. No, you won't be able to do this in a sightreading test, but then you don't get chance to mark fingering in a sightreading test and sure noone would rubbish that as a useful technique

God believe me I used to have a really big problem with reading both hands together. It's just a matter of practise. Keep going it will soom come.

I think that the 'hands separate or together' thing is not a one size fits all thing.

I would agree that right at the start it can help to do quite a lot of hands separate practice and then SLOWLY put the two together.
After hands together has become easier then some pieces are better and/or easier to learn wtih hands together from the start and some need sections at least to be worked with hands separate for a time.

This can vary a little from person to person too... but if your teacher suggests practising separate hands then it is usually worth giving it a try....

practise makes perferct,

PERFECT practice makes perfect

QUOTE (noodle @ Mar 31 2005, 11:23 PM)

[/QUOTE] What makes you think your teacher is right? Common sense should tell anyone that to learn a piano piece it is essential to learn each hand separately and then put them together when each hand is perfect. As for sight-reading it will improve with practice. It is slightly more difficult for someone used to reading a single stave to have to read two different staves. Once you are more familiar with the bass clef, try very easy sightreading and gradually increase in difficulty. Flute_girl, you are doing absolutely nothing wrong, but you will need to be very patient and work slowly and carefully. Its a lot more difficult for a flautist/violinist/cellist to take up the piano than for a pianist to take up the flute. Persevere, you will be fine!!

no i agree my teacher is not always right but i would hardly say that it is simply "common sense" to learn pieces seperate hands. to me it seems more "common sense" to learn pieces hands together because this will make a pianists life MUCH easier in the long run.

Sure, i do agree it is hard especially after learning an instrument in a single clef however i did say that you should do this AFTER familiarising yourself with the bass clef.

sure there is nothing wrong with going over seperate hands to aid your hands together playing but i do not believe in taking weeks on each hand and learning them perfectly because you will get the disappointment of your life when you start to put them together because you are so used to the hands seperate.

sorry, i didn't mean to offend anyone, im simply talking from experience since i've been through many a piano teacher.

QUOTE (khamy @ Apr 1 2005, 09:47 PM)

sure there is nothing wrong with going over seperate hands to aid your hands together playing but i do not believe in taking weeks on each hand and learning them perfectly because you will get the disappointment of your life when you start to put them together because you are so used to the hands seperate. sorry, i didn't mean to offend anyone, im simply talking from experience since i've been through many a piano teacher.

Many a piano teacher? Surely continuity is very important. Most of my students start with me at 6 or 7 years of a age and continue until they leave school to go to university. Because they do so well and get excellent results they don't need to change teacher. Three of them are going to music college in September having got high distinction marks in nearly every exam.
And you are wrong! It doesn't take longer to learn pieces if you learn them separately first. They are learnt more accurately. Trying to learn pieces hands together is just an attempt to save time and take short cuts but in effect it just makes things more difficult and harder in the long run.
As for the common sense comment. If two students are going to play a flute duet, it is common sense for them to learn their own part first before putting it together. Its the same on the piano, each hand has to know what to do before it plays with another hand.

I am a very experienced teacher and I know what I'm doing is right - my students do exceptionally well in exams, music festivals.

QUOTE (Piano_Lady @ Apr 1 2005, 04:37 PM)

practise makes perferct,

theres also a saying

practice makes perfect but then again nothings ever perfect so why practice

hehe

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Apr 2 2005, 10:31 AM)

QUOTE (Piano_Lady @ Apr 1 2005, 04:37 PM) practise makes perferct,  ;) theres also a saying practice makes perfect but then again nothings ever perfect so why practice hehe

Practice makes perfect - but only if the practice itself is perfect! Think about that one...

QUOTE (khamy @ Apr 1 2005, 09:47 PM)

[QUOTE=noodle,Mar 31 2005, 11:23 PM] [/QUOTE] What makes you think your teacher is right? Common sense should tell anyone that to learn a piano piece it is essential to learn each hand separately and then put them together when each hand is perfect. As for sight-reading it will improve with practice. It is slightly more difficult for someone used to reading a single stave to have to read two different staves. Once you are more familiar with the bass clef, try very easy sightreading and gradually increase in difficulty. Flute_girl, you are doing absolutely nothing wrong, but you will need to be very patient and work slowly and carefully. Its a lot more difficult for a flautist/violinist/cellist to take up the piano than for a pianist to take up the flute. Persevere, you will be fine!! [/QUOTE] no i agree my teacher is not always right but i would hardly say that it is simply "common sense" to learn pieces seperate hands. to me it seems more "common sense" to learn pieces hands together because this will make a pianists life MUCH easier in the long run. Sure, i do agree it is hard especially after learning an instrument in a single clef however i did say that you should do this AFTER familiarising yourself with the bass clef. sure there is nothing wrong with going over seperate hands to aid your hands together playing but i do not believe in taking weeks on each hand and learning them perfectly because you will get the disappointment of your life when you start to put them together because you are so used to the hands seperate. sorry, i didn't mean to offend anyone, im simply talking from experience since i've been through many a piano teacher.

I do agree with that in some ways, coz that's the way I started learning piano - basically, I just borrowed some basic piano books off my sister and started learning them by myself both hands at the same time... I think it does sort of make it easier to start playing both hands, especially sight-reading, coz I've generally found it quite easy - alot easier than scales which I got the worst mark in (luckily, the pieces, sight-reading, and aced aural test made up for it ).

Perhaps it does sort of make it easier if you play seperate hands - my first instrument was piano, so both clefs were equally just as bad - maybe coz you're a flute player you have already learnt treble, so you could just focus on the bass I suppose... it's just the thing I had about playing hands seperately was just that the bass clef is generally so easy compared to the treble clef anyway (in the beginning) that's there's probably not very much point... perhaps I'm wrong, coz I'll never know what it's like not to have piano as my first instrument, coz it already is my first instrument... unless someone has a time machine handy!

And if you can play hands seperately, both hands perfectly, but have trouble playing them together, it just comes with practise generally, and you'll get there in the end - just play lots of pieces double-handed and you'll soon get the hang of it.

And onto all these speeches of "Practise makes Perfect"... yup, practise makes as much perfect as you put into it - e.g. practise badly, music sounds bad, practise 'goodly', music sounds good - put 100% effort into practise, and you'll have 100% perfect music... but no-one puts 100% effort into practise, so they'll never get 100% perfect music.. that's the catch, Catch 22*.

Just back from holiday from Majorca (or Mallorca as they spell it there)... boohoo, does anyone find that when you come back from a really nice holiday, England seems just sooooo dissapointing?! And then back to school and coursework... and practise for Grade 5!!! Still can't get the hang of all the scales...

Wobby

*(Anyone heard of the book and read it all of the way through? I don't know anyone that has... it's so stunningly boring, I could barely make my way through the first chapter... sorry if you like it, but it's the truth! If you have read it all the way through without cheating and going to the last page first, you should go into the World Records!)

WHAT BOOK?!

hi everyone

you have all been a good help to me.....THANKYOU!!!!!

if anyone has some more advice i ould be happy to recieve it he he he

thanks again

Follow the asterisk - Catch 22. By Joseph Heller or something like that.

Wobby