Hi, I've been learning vibrato (for the viola) for a few months and I was wondering whether there were any situations/styles of music in which it definitely should/shouldn't be used? Does anyone know?
Emma
Full Version: Vibrato
in Slow music....sad ones.....
in any notes that are more than quavers where apporiate...
in any notes that are more than quavers where apporiate...
I'm no expert and can't even do vibrato on my violin but I'd imagine that it is used more from the Romantic era onwards as it is used as an emotional device. I might be totally wrong though but I couldn't imagine it being used in the more restrained Baroque or even Classical era. I'm sure though there are exceptions e.g. folk type pieces that need that particular effect. It is definately used mainly on held notes e.g. minims, semibreves so that the vibrato is given a chance to work.
There are a lot of Violin purists who dislike the use of vibrato saying it is a vulgar device. Seeing as I cant yet do it, I'm quite happy with this train of thought!
Gae
There are a lot of Violin purists who dislike the use of vibrato saying it is a vulgar device. Seeing as I cant yet do it, I'm quite happy with this train of thought!
Gae
Vibrato is an expressional device which shouldn't be used to mask bad intonation.
As far as when, or on what type of music to use vibrato is debatable. I could talk on this for hours and bore the socks off the lot of you, but, there is now some evidence that shows vibrato was used even during the baroque era, but only on notes where a performer particularly wanted to highlight a phrase or note. Heavy bowing with equally heavy vibrato in baroque music just makes it sound horrible.
There is some modern music in which the composer states 'no vibrato', but generally speaking in all other music, vibrato should be used with discretion and with feeling for whatever work you are playing.
Back in the early 20th century vibrato was used heavily on everything - no matter what era of music was being played. This has now gone out of fashion as the desire for authentic performance has been studied in detail and even authentic instruments have come into more popular use.
Use your emotions and the emotion of the music to tell you where you need vibrato and it will then sound natural, rather than something you're adding for the sake of it.
As far as when, or on what type of music to use vibrato is debatable. I could talk on this for hours and bore the socks off the lot of you, but, there is now some evidence that shows vibrato was used even during the baroque era, but only on notes where a performer particularly wanted to highlight a phrase or note. Heavy bowing with equally heavy vibrato in baroque music just makes it sound horrible.
There is some modern music in which the composer states 'no vibrato', but generally speaking in all other music, vibrato should be used with discretion and with feeling for whatever work you are playing.
Back in the early 20th century vibrato was used heavily on everything - no matter what era of music was being played. This has now gone out of fashion as the desire for authentic performance has been studied in detail and even authentic instruments have come into more popular use.
Use your emotions and the emotion of the music to tell you where you need vibrato and it will then sound natural, rather than something you're adding for the sake of it.
| QUOTE (Rainbow @ Apr 10 2005, 09:24 PM) |
| Hi, I've been learning vibrato (for the viola) for a few months and I was wondering whether there were any situations/styles of music in which it definitely should/shouldn't be used? Does anyone know? Emma |
In both in the Spohr Violin Method of about 1845 and the Joachim Method of 1909, vibrato is described as an embellishment, to be used only to emphasize an important note in a phrase. Roger Norrington says that the first performer to use continuous vibrato was Fritz Kreisler, though the Grove Concise Dictionary of Music says that it came in gradually during the 19th century. Kreisler was very proud of this ability, but other soloists soon emulated him. However, in the UK, most orchestral violinists did not follow suit until around 1940 - 1950. Another change around the same time was the end of portamento in upward shifts. I wonder to what extent these changes depended on the gradual introduction of chin rests during the 19th C. and of shoulder rests during the 20th.
Hans Keller made the point that the so-called "authentic" string playing in Baroque music, introduced about 25 years ago, was anachronistically "clean", and that the lack of a chin rest meant that 18th C. players would have had to do portamento for every upward shift.
What is portamento, please?
Thanks,
Cat
Thanks,
Cat
| QUOTE (Catrin @ Apr 11 2005, 01:46 PM) |
| What is portamento, please? |
you slide from one note to another whilst including all the pitches inbetween
| QUOTE |
| Hans Keller made the point that the so-called "authentic" string playing in Baroque music, introduced about 25 years ago, was anachronistically "clean", and that the lack of a chin rest meant that 18th C. players would have had to do portamento for every upward shift. |
Interesting that you should mention Hans Keller - he was an uncle of mine, believe it or not (and my very first violin teacher). My mother and he grew up together in Vienna in the 20's and emigrated to the UK at the same time, thanks to Hans' brother-in-law, who saved most of the family.
He always used to talk very emphatically about the overuse of vibrato, and I have to admit that contunous vibrato makes me feel quite ill as a result!
Violinia
| QUOTE |
| He always used to talk very emphatically about the overuse of vibrato, and I have to admit that contunous vibrato makes me feel quite ill as a result! |
I agree, Violinia. As someone who also plays woodwind instruments, the same applies to them too.
Apart from making me feel ill, hearing the same continuous and monotonous vibrato on every note is just as boring as no vibrato at all.
| QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Apr 11 2005, 12:48 PM) | ||
you slide from one note to another whilst including all the pitches inbetween |
Listen to Fritz Kreisler...and you will hear the portamento, and the vibrato. People just don't play like that anymore, not sure if it is a technique thing (ie shoulder rests, chin rests etc) or a fashion thing. I suspect it as much a fashion thing as anything.
I have an old recording of (I think) the Halle playing the Enigma Variations, and it makes you feel seasick
No orchestra would play like that now.Somehow if its Fritz though it becomes full of "Viennese charm" and acceptable.
Also I think there was a thing of which finger you used for portamento when shifting. The one you had just played with, or the one you were about to play with (if you understand my meaning here).
Jane
Wow, thanks everybody, I'm a lot clearer now! I don't use vibrato all the time and I think that continuous vibrato sounds horrible!
| QUOTE (Violinia @ Apr 11 2005, 02:16 PM) |
| Interesting that you should mention Hans Keller - he was an uncle of mine, believe it or not (and my very first violin teacher). |
I heard his wordless analyses on Radio 3 around 1980 and found them fascinating. They introduced me to the Mozart String Quintets, which have remained on my list of all-time favourites ever since. I also have his book "Criticism", which I found very stimulating and amusing, though (I hope) somewhat tongue-in-cheek in the more outrageous passages (e.g. "Pseudo-professions" including viola player)
i usually use it in romantic, slow, or sad pieces
| QUOTE (kenm @ Apr 11 2005, 06:30 PM) | ||
I heard his wordless analyses on Radio 3 around 1980 and found them fascinating. They introduced me to the Mozart String Quintets, which have remained on my list of all-time favourites ever since. I also have his book "Criticism", which I found very stimulating and amusing, though (I hope) somewhat tongue-in-cheek in the more outrageous passages (e.g. "Pseudo-professions" including viola player) |
Heh heh! Of course viola playing is a phony career! Anybody who can play violin can play viola as well...
I'm realising more and more just how influential Hans actually was, and it's nice to know he's not being forgotten as time goes by.
I had a few violin lessons with him when I was very small, but he wasn't that patient with children. Soon after that he met a Hungarian woman at the Dartington Summer School; she had just arrived in England and was looking for pupils; he rated her as a player and recommended her to my parents, and that was it - I've never looked back. I often wonder what direction my life would have taken if he and she hadn't met that summer...
My mother did an OU music degree when she was in her 60's, and would write to Hans when she needed help or suggestions. He wrote back some very amusing letters, making utter fun of the whole degree system - got her quite flummoxed I think.
In one of them she said she got an A for an essay; he replied "now, that worries me - you must be telling them what they want to hear, I'd be much happier if you got a C or a D." My mum was always trying to sort him out, get him to take up swimming or give up smoking, and he'd write back the rudest ripostes.
Interestingly he never took a degree himself; his education was rudely interrupted by Hitler, and apart from doing the LRAM (with Max Rostal) he was completely self-educated - perhaps the best way for true originality of mind.
I haven't got a degree either and my mum is just coming around to accepting that I might have done the right thing.
| QUOTE |
| As someone who also plays woodwind instruments, the same applies to them too. Apart from making me feel ill, hearing the same continuous and monotonous vibrato on every note is just as boring as no vibrato at all. |
Yes - like James Galwey - it's always beaten me why so many people want to play like him...
Does anybody here also find that a lot of top violinists play sharp? Is it because they're so worried about playing flat? Drives me round the bend.
If anyone wants to hear Hans' favourite violinist of all time, go to this:
www.huberman.info
and click on the sound files. An extraordinary violinist, utterly unique, and self-taught after the age of 11.
Well worth a listen.
Violinia
| QUOTE |
| Does anybody here also find that a lot of top violinists play sharp? Is it because they're so worried about playing flat? Drives me round the bend. |
Tell me about it. I spent my early teenage years perfecting intonation with double stopped scales, arpeggios, scales in thirds etc., but my teachers drove me round the bend at music college by saying my playing was flat
- errrrr, no, I'm playing in tune, it's just that so many others play sharp that you think I'm playing flat. There's a tendancy for some orchestras to do it as well. Everyone is a bit on the sharp side, but you just have to go along with the crowd in that instance. 
| QUOTE |
| If anyone wants to hear Hans' favourite violinist of all time, go to this: www.huberman.info An extraordinary violinist, utterly unique, and self-taught after the age of 11. |
He was unique, in many ways. He suffered from a squint (cross-eyed) that was so bad he would never look straight at a camera. Every single photo of him shows his face from the side.
Violinia, do you know about his experiment with the use of silicon bow hair??? As you know silicon is extremely slippery stuff, so Huberman fixed lots of rosin blocks to the conductor's podium. Every time he had a few bars rest he'd re-rosin the bow!!! I'd imagine the performance must have almost become a farce in the end
| QUOTE |
| Violinia, do you know about his experiment with the use of silicon bow hair??? As you know silicon is extremely slippery stuff, so Huberman fixed lots of rosin blocks to the conductor's podium. Every time he had a few bars rest he'd re-rosin the bow!!! I'd imagine the performance must have almost become a farce in the end |
Amanda, I don't know all that much about Huberman - I've just got these recordings on tape that my mother gave me years ago, and recently she and I spent a lot of time on the internet looking him up and found the website I mentioned yesterday. I spent hours studying it and read up his life story, and his wife's, and listened to all the sound files - amazing!
Whatever I can tell you about him is on there, and I certainly remember reading something about his weird invention to do with silicon bow hair, and how it didn't work at all. He was also a very early pioneer of a united Europe - way ahead of his time there... or not, according to your political persuasions!
Poor Huberman - he led a very stressful life by the sound of it. The pictures of him when he was a boy are amazing - beautiful dark eyes and long hair, but when he got older he looked quite strange, and was probably a very difficult person to be around.
He did write some amazingly perceptive things about music and creativity; anyway, read the website - you'll be blown away. The guy who wrote it has done an amazing job. We ought to invite him to come and talk to us here; he's an interesting guy and we've been emailing each other. I was also pleased to see he's put loads about Hans on the site!
All the best
Violinia
| QUOTE (Violinia @ Apr 11 2005, 07:29 PM) |
| Heh heh! Of course viola playing is a phony career! Anybody who can play violin can play viola as well... |
oooh tsk tsk! lol...
Why tsk tsk? I've just been lent a viola, picked it up and played it straight away, in tune, and was struck by its deep tone, which you would obviously have to be sensitive to in the way you played it. The only problem that struck me wretched clef, but reading music is a very different thing to actually playing music. A few weeks and I'm sure one coudl easily get to grips with a different clef.
Why do you think viola playing is something particularly different from violin playing, then?
Violinia
Why do you think viola playing is something particularly different from violin playing, then?
Violinia
I think Sarah Flute was entering into the tongue in cheek spirit of the conversation up to that point.
interesting how the thread then twists and turns to throw up a slightly more serious question.
I suppose if you are right, and the violin and the viola are basically the same, then there is no more reason to say all violinists can play viola so viola players are imposters, than to say all viola players can play violin, so violinists are imposters. The fact is both are needed and most orchestral music would sound naff without both.
However I think William Primrose, Lionel Tertis, Paul Hindemith, Yuri Bashmet, Hong Mei Xiao, Nutter, Rainbow and others would argue (or would have argued) strongly for the uniqueness of the viola.
William Primrose states in the Yehudi Menuhin Guides, "Tertis defined the distinct personality of the instrument, and to suggest that performance on it was no more than playing the violin a fifth down in pitch was to commit the sin of sins and evoke his wrath both swift and devastating. May I add that mine is similarly evoked? The two great distinction between violin and viola playing lie in the proper use of fingering and bowing...."
He goes on to make a number of points, the most interesting of which for me is; "...to finger the viola like a violin is a cardinal error, and one that lends to the instrument the opaqueness that all too often characterizes it in the hands of the incompetent, the unimaginative, or the unenterprising. In fact I came to the conclusion a long time ago that principles of fingering that applied to the violin were simply ineffective on the larger instrument. Open strings performed freely on the violin often produce a jarring effect on the listener. Per contra, on the viola the open strings, as it is said of a woman's hair, are its glory. That and the liberal use of natural harmonics add colour and variety that are denied by the use of conventional violin fingerings. The use of "bariolage" is another thing I revert to frequently - that is, I cross and recross strings in order to obtain a sound more open and varied than one would dare risk on the violin....."
interesting how the thread then twists and turns to throw up a slightly more serious question.
I suppose if you are right, and the violin and the viola are basically the same, then there is no more reason to say all violinists can play viola so viola players are imposters, than to say all viola players can play violin, so violinists are imposters. The fact is both are needed and most orchestral music would sound naff without both.
However I think William Primrose, Lionel Tertis, Paul Hindemith, Yuri Bashmet, Hong Mei Xiao, Nutter, Rainbow and others would argue (or would have argued) strongly for the uniqueness of the viola.
William Primrose states in the Yehudi Menuhin Guides, "Tertis defined the distinct personality of the instrument, and to suggest that performance on it was no more than playing the violin a fifth down in pitch was to commit the sin of sins and evoke his wrath both swift and devastating. May I add that mine is similarly evoked? The two great distinction between violin and viola playing lie in the proper use of fingering and bowing...."
He goes on to make a number of points, the most interesting of which for me is; "...to finger the viola like a violin is a cardinal error, and one that lends to the instrument the opaqueness that all too often characterizes it in the hands of the incompetent, the unimaginative, or the unenterprising. In fact I came to the conclusion a long time ago that principles of fingering that applied to the violin were simply ineffective on the larger instrument. Open strings performed freely on the violin often produce a jarring effect on the listener. Per contra, on the viola the open strings, as it is said of a woman's hair, are its glory. That and the liberal use of natural harmonics add colour and variety that are denied by the use of conventional violin fingerings. The use of "bariolage" is another thing I revert to frequently - that is, I cross and recross strings in order to obtain a sound more open and varied than one would dare risk on the violin....."
| QUOTE |
| However I think William Primrose, Lionel Tertis, Paul Hindemith, Yuri Bashmet, Hong Mei Xiao, Nutter, Rainbow and others would argue (or would have argued) strongly for the uniqueness of the viola. |
Zoda's absolutely right, I do think that the viola is unique. It does have different fingering and bowing techniques and I find it quite hard to play the viola "like a violin". I agree with Zoda that open strings and natural harmonics have a much better sound on the viola than on the violin. I also greatly prefer the viola's "dark" tone quality.
(Also, if the technique for violin and viola are the same, how come I'm a ###### violinist but a fairly good viola player - so people tell me?)
Zoda, do you think we ought to start a viola players' club? Something like 'The Society for the Preservation of Violists'? Anyone feel free to suggest a better title, I'm tiiiiiiired!!!
| QUOTE (zoda @ May 5 2005, 09:17 PM) |
| I think Sarah Flute was entering into the tongue in cheek spirit of the conversation up to that point. |
Yes, I was, mostly, being a touch tongue in cheek, but as Zoda and Rainbow said, it is a different instrument - very similar, and no question many of the skills are transferable - but still an instrument in its own right. Most decent violin players could probably play the viola reasonably without too much effort. Ditto vice versa. The clef is not the only difference, though the transition from treble clef + leger lines to alto/treble clef is not one I like to make while tired...! (have to say, saying the clef is the only difference is like when people ask me if Russian is hard to learn "because of the different alphabet"... Hey, when you're learning Russian Grammar, the alphabet is the least of your worries!!
)To play the viola exactly as a violin would be played (or vice versa) is a disservice to both instruments, and to play well, one can't use exactly the same techniques etc that one uses on the violin - and the same goes the other way round. Not as obviously different as, say, the cello for example, but (IMO) one should not treat the viola as just a big violin any more than one treats the cello as a really really big violin or the double bass as a massive cello. Again I'd liken it to learning a language: it's perfectly possible to read transliterated Russian from the page, and still sound as English as can be... and not even know it (I went crazy trying to get my mum to pronounce things in a vaguely Russian accent, even though she never saw them written down - her imitation of my reasonable Russian accent came out like comedy Russian)
Like rainbow, I'm certainly not a great violinist, and yet an ok viola player - except that I lack fluency through lack of practice, and lack of having a viola to practice upon (I certainly got better when I landed in a quintet where playing it like a big violin was a definite no-no!) I suspect there are people out there who are perfectly good violinists, but would not be that great at the viola... Yes, the skills are very transferable in the first instance, but don't make the mistake of thinking it's the same instrument: it ain't.
I'll join! Though I don't currently own a viola
... but I'm planning to fix that just as soon as I can afford to.
| QUOTE (Rainbow @ May 5 2005, 09:39 PM) |
| Zoda, do you think we ought to start a viola players' club? Something like 'The Society for the Preservation of Violists'? Anyone feel free to suggest a better title, I'm tiiiiiiired!!! |
"Preservation of violists" sounds like a bit of a gloomy rearguard action. How about something a bit 'new labour' like:
"The 1984 Viola Police".
nope. not very uplifting really (despite voting for them).
"The colourful open strings club"
sounds a bit like a lap dancing bar in Brighton.
The rich stringy viola club
(2 out of 3 ain't bad - just got to work on the "rich" part).
if I don't find my muse soon I'll be losing my job at the "Ay-een" club.
I'm really struggling with vibrato and the moment. My second and third finger vibrato are fine, my first and fourth are dreadful.
| QUOTE |
| However I think William Primrose, Lionel Tertis, Paul Hindemith, Yuri Bashmet, Hong Mei Xiao, Nutter, Rainbow and others would argue (or would have argued) strongly for the uniqueness of the viola. |
Absolutely. I tried playing my friend's violin and it was by no means like playing a small viola. I was struck by how differently you have to put your fingers down, they feel so much closer together on a violin!
| QUOTE |
| I'm really struggling with vibrato and the moment. My second and third finger vibrato are fine, my first and fourth are dreadful. |
Don't worry, you'll get there soon! I never used to be able to do vibrato at all because I was far too tense, now I'm getting there!
Jess
| QUOTE (zoda @ May 6 2005, 12:09 PM) | ||
"Preservation of violists" sounds like a bit of a gloomy rearguard action. |
The C Stringers?
Charlie's Violas...
Yep, I need more sleep...
The rich stringers??!
Once we were trying to come up with names for school string group and someone suggested "the G strings" I think we ended up as "Highly Strung" or something like that...
I think we ended up as "Highly Strung" or something like that...
We definitely need a snazzy name here (and I need a viola or I am a bit of a big faker at the moment!)
I'll join!! I love playing on open strings on the viola, not on the violin, they sound harsh on the violin.
I prefer the viola so much to the violin, the viola more reflects me as a person than the violin does. And plus, the viola has a much more beautiful and dark tone than the violin.
Vibrato's just a matter of how tense you are, I find that on days when I'm stressed, I'm tense so I find it near impossible to do vibrato on anything as I'm too tense.
I prefer the viola so much to the violin, the viola more reflects me as a person than the violin does. And plus, the viola has a much more beautiful and dark tone than the violin.
Vibrato's just a matter of how tense you are, I find that on days when I'm stressed, I'm tense so I find it near impossible to do vibrato on anything as I'm too tense.
| QUOTE (Appassionata @ May 6 2005, 03:35 PM) |
| fourth are dreadful. |
I don't know if someone's going to tell me off for doing this, but when I've got vibrato on the 4th finger, I tend to put the third finger down behind it to give it a bit of strength.
| QUOTE (Appassionata @ May 6 2005, 03:35 PM) |
| my second and third finger vibrato are fine, Â my first and fourth are dreadful. Â Â |
I don't know if someone's going to tell me off for doing this, but when I'm doing vibrato on the 4th finger, I tend to put the third finger down behind it to give it a bit of strength.
Haven't really even tried to do vibrato on the 4th finger for a loooooooooooong time - so out of practice - but I would do the same.
| QUOTE |
| I don't know if someone's going to tell me off for doing this, but when I've got vibrato on the 4th finger, I tend to put the third finger down behind it to give it a bit of strength. |
Nothing wrong it at all, but, be careful if the music is also moving down in pitch, and using fourth to third finger with a tone between them - the third finger could easily end up sharp.
Try to develop your vibrato with the fourth finger and gradually give up the support it gets from the third finger. It will be quite hard work to start with, but persevere.
I have small hands, so independent fingers and vibrato was an absolute must.
I dont... I just let it do vibrato by itself.
| QUOTE (sarah-flute @ May 9 2005, 03:41 PM) |
| Haven't really even tried to do vibrato on the 4th finger for a loooooooooooong time - so out of practice - but I would do the same. |
Yeah, I played violin, but vibrato on the 4th finger is definitely difficult! Because my 'little pinky' is a kinda short, so it gets harder to do vibrato with it..
When do you should use vibrato..? It depends on the song you played, and when your teacher told you to use vibrato..
only joking.. 
Also, your fourth finger will tend to be weaker than the rest as it's not used that much - especially your LH 4th finger unless you are left-handed!
True!My LH4 is very weak!
I can't really do a 4th finger vibrato...my best is is my 3rd.
Then again,my trill is best on LH1/2...
(I'm right-handed,by the way!it's great for controlling the bow...)
I can't really do a 4th finger vibrato...my best is is my 3rd.
Then again,my trill is best on LH1/2...
(I'm right-handed,by the way!it's great for controlling the bow...)
One of the good things about having played the violin for so many years is that I have much stronger left hand fingers than I would have!
I find my LH pinkie tends to be too tense to do a good vibrato...
I find my LH pinkie tends to be too tense to do a good vibrato...
funny this discussion
I was just playing yesterday when I realised I don't do what I thought I did! If I have vibrato on a 4th finger note next to a 3rd finger note a whole tone below, I actually leave the third finger down in position and vibrato on both 3rd and 4th fingers with a tone gap between them. At some point I must have changed from pushing the two fingers together, and it is only this discussion which has made me notice! I can vibrato on just the fourth finger (I suspect being left handed helps), but it doesn't sound as nice.
I was just playing yesterday when I realised I don't do what I thought I did! If I have vibrato on a 4th finger note next to a 3rd finger note a whole tone below, I actually leave the third finger down in position and vibrato on both 3rd and 4th fingers with a tone gap between them. At some point I must have changed from pushing the two fingers together, and it is only this discussion which has made me notice! I can vibrato on just the fourth finger (I suspect being left handed helps), but it doesn't sound as nice.
When I was playing yesterday I also noticed that I wasn't doing what I thought I was doing - not sure I was even using my 3rd finger at all (though my 4th finger vibrato wasn't too hot) though I need to try again and take notice of what I am doing really...!
At least Sarah-Flute understands!
I wonder what other things I imagine I do that I don't.
I wonder what other things I imagine I do that I don't.
*grin*
Hhm..I think all of you also learn piano, right? which one you think is easier? playing the piano or the violin/viola?
Impossible to say - everyone's different.
If you want to hear the most extraordinary fourth finger vibrato ever, go to www.huberman/info (or www. huberman.info) and listen to some of the samples. He practised 4th finger vibrato obsessively and managed to develop the most unbelievable, unforgettable sound.
It's certainly made me try to make mine better, but probably a bit late in life (sigh).
Violinia
It's certainly made me try to make mine better, but probably a bit late in life (sigh).
Violinia
Never too late to try! I'll have a listen...
QUOTE(Violinia @ Apr 11 2005, 07:29 PM) 
Anybody who can play violin can play viola as well...
When Violinia made this "violinian"* comment back in April, I responded by "wiring over" to some comments made by William Primrose about the uniqueness of the viola, and thought little more about it.
However, I was recently reminded of this quote by Violinia after being asked to help out my old School Orchestra which was trying to perform a Beethoven Symphony despite having no viola players. I started to think that there is value in bearing in mind both William Primrose's points about the uniqueness of the viola, but also Violinia's points about it's similarities to the violin. Violinia's point is a bit like the Emperor's new clothes - however much we big up the differences of the viola from the violin, the similarities are staring us in the face.
Why is this important? Because if violinists are too reverential to the differences of the viola it may prevent them from having a go and seeing if they like it - seeing if they like the sound, the feel, the part the viola plays in orchestral music - which actually Violinia is right - they could do with relative ease. I must admit when AmandaL told us that Maxim Vengerov learnt Viola in 6 weeks to a world class standard I saw that as rather sad news for the world of the viola - it seemed to diminish the art of viola playing to a subsidiary of violin playing. Now I think of it again I think in the context of shortage of viola players, this "crossover ability" is actually important knowledge which violin students and school conductors should bear in mind. Maybe the ultimate aim is to play like Lionel Tertis, but if that worthy aim actually discourages violinists from the first step of picking up a viola and seeing if they like it, the advice is hugely counterproductive.
I am sure the viola is not for everybody - people charging towards their grade VIII violin, enthralled by the fireworks of playing 1st violin and focussed in that groove may be perfectly content without the extra effort of viola. But big people, people who like the mellow lower strings, who are not charging anywhere in particular but want to enjoy contributing to the orchestral texture now on an instrument they love the sound of - who want to double the Cellos as often as they double the violins or fill the middle harmonies - they should rejoice at the similarities between the two instruments, and just have a go. Once they have picked up a viola, the opportunities to explore its uniqueness from the violin are unlimited.
* violinian /adj 1forthright, honest, say what you mean 2call a spade a spade 3honorary northerner
Zoda
Great post! Yes there are similarities and once the techniques of bow hold, stance, producing a good tone from bowed strings, vibrato etc etc are mastered on the violin it must be relatively simple to transfer those skills to the viola. And of course the more virtuosic those skills (like in the case of Vengerov) the easier the transferrence will be.
There are differences and in order to be a budding William Primrose, Lionel Tertis, or Yuri Bashmet of the viola then these also need to be understood and mastered.
Hmmmm the lovely rich tone of the viola is as a wonderful thing and it does sorely tempt me.......one day!
Great post! Yes there are similarities and once the techniques of bow hold, stance, producing a good tone from bowed strings, vibrato etc etc are mastered on the violin it must be relatively simple to transfer those skills to the viola. And of course the more virtuosic those skills (like in the case of Vengerov) the easier the transferrence will be.
There are differences and in order to be a budding William Primrose, Lionel Tertis, or Yuri Bashmet of the viola then these also need to be understood and mastered.
Hmmmm the lovely rich tone of the viola is as a wonderful thing and it does sorely tempt me.......one day!
I've never played a viola.. like never! But im definitely cello & viola curious 
Oh.. carrying on with the vibrato talk- my LH4 is WEAK. Like very very week- I actually have to end up putting my *2nd* and 3rd finger down aswell.
Oh.. carrying on with the vibrato talk- my LH4 is WEAK. Like very very week- I actually have to end up putting my *2nd* and 3rd finger down aswell.
Interesting debate. I do still think there's no more real difference between the violin and the viola than say the difference between playing low down on the G string and high up on the E string of the violin.
To play low down on the G string you need a very different technique and feel than when playing high up on the E string - different bow pressure, different spaces between fingers etc etc - this means a violinist is using a variety of different techniques all the time whether they realise it or not. To play the viola all a violinist needs to do is adapt that technique again. Could say more but have to crack on with Christmas shopping, aaagh.
Violinia
To play low down on the G string you need a very different technique and feel than when playing high up on the E string - different bow pressure, different spaces between fingers etc etc - this means a violinist is using a variety of different techniques all the time whether they realise it or not. To play the viola all a violinist needs to do is adapt that technique again. Could say more but have to crack on with Christmas shopping, aaagh.
Violinia
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