Hi,

I am asking this for curiousity, since it happened to once of my classmates:

If you are taking Grade 6 exam in an instrument and found out that your teacher doesn't have a Grade 8 in that instrument, what would your opinion be?

Any comments/opinions are welcome!!!

happygirl

It wouldn't bother me. How well they teach is more important than what grades they have.

I agree, I don't think it matters as long as they are a good teacher and are technically secure on that instrument.

There may be all sorts of reasons why the teacher doesn't have grade 8 in a particular instrument, and it may not be a big deal.

I don't have grade 8 in one of the instruments that I teach, mainly because I swapped "first" instruments at around grade 6. However my students get good marks at grades 5 6 7 and 8 as well as at the lower grades.

Maggie

It wouldn't bother me at all. My own piano teacher was taught piano from grade 5 upwards by a trumpet teacher who didn't play piano at all. She did really well in all her exams & then went on to get a diploma.

I agree with others - the quality and musical expertise of the teacher is paramount but I think you do also expect them to be able to demonstrate, if needs be, what they are talking about.

I don't have Grade 8 on the Piano (got to Grade 7 level) but I only teach Piano to Grade 5 standard and then I pass any pupils who wish to continue on to another, piano specialist. This works well - my young pupils get good results and I feel I can offer them knowledge and skills to this grade level. I wouldn't, personally, feel happy to teach Piano beyond this level.

However, I hold diploma qualifications on the Oboe (teaching and performing) so I go through to diploma standard with my oboists if that's what they want to do.

It's a personal thing really: do the teacher and pupil have confidence in each other?

I do remember being a steward for our ABRSM centre one day when a teacher brought along about 10 pupils to do Grade 1 Descant Recorder and she, herself, then took Grade 3 because that was the level she felt she'd reached. I felt uneasy about that one but, presumably, her students (and their parents) didn't!

Interesting thread - I shall look forward to reading more answers!

Son's piano teacher only teaches the lower grades and then passes them on like oboist due to her lack of higher qualifications/experience. I'd have thought this was the right approach unless other musical experience (aside from exams, or on other similar instruments) gives a teacher the extra knowledge and ability to teach further.
Some teachers with qualifications are not so good and some without are excellent; you have to judge on how they teach not just on qualifications whatever they have or haven't got.

QUOTE (oboist @ Apr 11 2005, 09:04 AM)

I do remember being a steward for our ABRSM centre one day when a teacher brought along about 10 pupils to do Grade 1 Descant Recorder and she, herself, then took Grade 3 because that was the level she felt she'd reached. I felt uneasy about that one but, presumably, her students (and their parents) didn't!

The interesting question would have been (please tell us the answer if you know it), "What are her qualifications on other instruments (or even voice)?".

It wouldn't bother me. Just because they may not have taken Grade 8 doesn't mean they weren't Grade 8 standard, and may just have not taken it because they didn't want to, and their performance skill is much better than the grades they have suggest.

Does that make sense?!

It wouldn't bother me - I know several people of amazing ability who haven't done an exam in their life. Grade 8 is not the be-all and end-all for anyone. (I teach theory, which I haven't got Grade 8 in, but I am capable of understanding and explaining Grade 8 material... I have also taught viola in the past, despite not having Grade 8 on that instrument).

I think it doesn't really matter whether the teacher has the 'piece of paper' or not (i.e. the grade). I did grade 3 piano in 1995, but then I gave up doing exams. I'm now about grade 7 standard, but it doesn't make me any less good by not having the actual 'piece of paper' (I hope!)
The quality of the teaching is paramont. You can have brilliant performers who are rubbish teachers, but also brilliant teachers who aren't necesarily 'performers'
David

I agree. If they're good at teaching and can motivate their pupils, that's all that really matters.

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Apr 11 2005, 03:15 PM)

Just because they may not have taken Grade 8 doesn't mean they weren't Grade 8 standard, and may just have not taken it because they didn't want to, and their performance skill is much better than the grades they have suggest.

Yeah, exactly. Some people just go through the grades without taking exams. It doesn't make someone any better at an instrument just because they've done an exam. One of my teachers hasn't taken every single exam and it doesn't make any difference to me. As long as they're good teachers, thats all that matters.

Yes, my teacher is so amazing, kind and motivational, but it wouldn't change my opinion of her if she told me on Wednesday that she hadn't done Grade 8 even though I know she has, lol!

Personally, I think the teaching itself is most important. My own piano teacher didnt do grade 8 in piano, but has it in oboe. I don't think any less of her for it as she is obviously above and beyond grade 8 standard of playing.

I agree, it wouldn't bother me if I thought that they had the relevant skills and experience to teach that instrument, which my teachers do! After all, exams aren't everything... as I'm slightly too fond of saying

Thanks for everyone's prompt reply

I thought everyone would give negative comments on the teacher, but in the end it seems like the other way round!

Actually the teacher had a diploma in piano, so i would think that it would be ok, at least And she gets on really well with the teacher.

Teaching & musical ability IS more important than a piece of cert

Happygirl

OK then - I will come in and bat for qualifications!

I would argue though that a teacher that has shown the commitment to reach a particular qualification level inspires confidence, providing they can transfer the knowledge effectively to a student.

I like to think that anyone teaching me can perform at a significantly higher level than I can. In fact the most valuable learning I have ever experienced has been in occasional public master classes with leading solo pianists. There is something really refreshing in finding out how to simplify something that may initially appear difficult or complex to you and your regular teacher. You can get superior help in technique, interpretation and style - although I have found best help of all to be in how I THINK about a piece of music.

If you have a teacher that is only a couple of grades or a couple of pages ahead of you, then you are more likely to find areas where both teacher and student will struggle because of a lack of overview and vision of the performing art. That is my experience.

the teahcing is definately the most important part - my theory teacher has just done her grade 6 but she's a brilliant teacher, i picked up more in her weekly 1/2 hr lessons that i did in 3 hrs of school music a week, its the way teachers do thier lesson and weather the students learning style is met.

QUOTE

If you have a teacher that is only a couple of grades or a couple of pages ahead of you, then you are more likely to find areas where both teacher and student will struggle because of a lack of overview and vision of the performing art. That is my experience.

George - thanks for putting the other side of the coin. I agree with much that you say in your post, and in particular the quoted bit. I do think it's important to be able to demonstrate effectively what the student is trying to do.

I think there is a huge difference between a (perhaps student-) teacher who is a grade or so ahead of the student full-stop, and a teacher who hasn't been through all the grades in one particular instrument, but who has, say, a diploma, or higher grades in some other instrument or areas of music. The teacher mentioned by the OP apparently has a diploma in piano.

I'm certainly not suggesting that qualifications are unnecessary. I have a few myself and yes, I worked hard for them. There must be many brilliant performers who have not done all the grades in their instrument. Equally, I've no doubt there are some teachers teaching beyond their real capability - but I'm not certain what real difference the magic "grade 8 " makes.

cheers

Maggie

Thanks George Burrell and Maggie for the other side of the argument. Hopefully more teachers will respond to this too. I was always taught by qualified and excellent teachers, but then I came from a musical family and my parents knew the problems of being taught by someone who didn't know what they were doing. I don't think I would have been too happy about being taught by someone who was little further on than me, but I know it would never have happened so its hard to say for sure.

As we have said before, qualifications don't make a good teacher, but it is simple necessity for the teacher to be well above the standard they are trying to teach. It is hard enough to teach without having to undo bad teaching and virtually start the child again.
I have had many students over the years who have been taught by a teacher who only teaches up to grade 3 or grade 5. These students have been destroyed because the so called teacher doesn't know enough to be teaching. I have been teaching three children since September who all failed pre-grade 1 exams because their teacher is little further on than they are. Its unfair on the children and their new teacher who has to unravel the mess and correct them before they go any further.

Remember that a qualification is only a way of proving your abilities. It is obviously easier for teachers to prove their worth with a piece of paper than without, but it does not mean they do not have the ability - maybe they just didnt enjoy doing grades!

Teachers should be honest with pupils and parents though, and shoudl not mislead people into thinking they have a qualification, but the qualification is simply a piece of official evidence of ability, it is not in any way essential if there is another way to prove your abilities. It just makes it much easier is all!

But you do need to know that your teacher is good enough - there are other ways of showing this is all im saying.

p.s. my a-level music teacher obviously has a degree and is very capable, but if you asked him to prove he could do a-grade a-level work he could only show you a c-grade certificate for his a-level music! he managed to get all of us an A or B though.

He was predicted an A, probably just fell asleep in the exam - he was (and is) still capable of the work!

I think if my teacher was not well qualified enough it WOULD worry me.

I'm not sure what my first piano teacher's qualifications were - i was very little at the the time (although i THINK she might have had grade 8) - despite that she was TERRIBLE!!! we did no theory or scales and she used to write in the names of all the notes in my music - that totally destroyed my sightreading (i would murder her if she was still alive now!!!!).

My second piano teacher was only grade 6, although she wasn't much better, she did try to fix my problems but she just wasn't good enough to do so. I quit piano for 2 years after this.

Finally I started piano with my current teacher who has LRSM and studied the piano at the college of music under the instruction of a well renouned pianist.

She took me literally from grade nothing (cos i was totally incompetent despite the fact that i had done piano for the past 5 years) to grade 8 in a matter of 3-4 years.

She is the perfect teacher - well qualified, exuberent and patient. so i think it definately does depend here guys.....

I have not done a single practical exam in my life (just eistefods) however i teach piano and my students (all beginners) seem to progress fairly well.

I think if i was being taught anything above grade 4 or so i'd want a teacher who at least has grade 8, or can prove that he/she is grade 8 level.

as others have said, the quality of playing and teaching is much more important than what grades a teacher has completed...

on paper, I'm a better violinist than flautist... in reality, I teach flute quite happily but you wouldn't catch me offering to teach the violin.

same with most other people - it won;t really bother me.

My teacher for piano grade 6 hasn't taken any grade on any instrument whatsoever.
I think he's very good and would recommend him to other people.