Not literally of course, a bus hasn't fell on top of me or anything.

I have a problem, I started piano lessons with the teacher who comes to the school, and although he is an amazing pianist, he seems lethargic about teaching. I stopped lessons and have since been looking for a teacher, I found one recently who stays near me, is apparently very good, and isn't too expensive (around £10 per lesson).

I got quite excited about this, and told one of my friends (who goes to lessons with this teacher) to mention my name and that I want to start lessons etc, and that I probably would. All that remained was to ask my dad if it was ok (he would be the one paying) and he blatantly refused, and he kept rabbling on about lessons in school being available. Basically, he said no, and left no room for persuasion.

I'm really crushed by this as I thought he would be enthusiastic about piano lessons, which he obviously wasn't. And then my family started to ask me about why I need piano lessons, and the fact that I want to be a music teacher (or at the least, a music based career) made no difference.

The only option I have is to go back to school lessons, and probably not learn nearly as well as I would with a teacher I liked. Piano is the way foward (in the words of my music teacher), I don't think I have any other options. (Me being optimistic again)

Hulk

Ask your old teacher what he charges to provide tuition privately and explain this information needs to be supplied in writing to your Dad. Dad will be in for a pleasant shock! You could also contact your local education authority and,again,ask them to provide in writing the terms under which a Peri works and how they are paid ie the %.

If Dad won't still budge is there any way you can finance the lessons yourself? After awhile he might change his mind given he will see your determination and dedication to realising your choice?

What did you say to your Dad when he asked you the questions?

I have just read your signature. You have passed grade 1 piano? You have a lot of hard work in front of you if you wish to become fluent on the piano. Besides, what about the clarinet? Is Dad paying privately for this?

It's not the finance that's the problem, my dad has always been tight-fisted with his money, but I thought he would make an exception for this. My dad just kept saying that "what's up with lessons from school", and I kept telling him about the teacher and he just refused to listen, I tried to explain why I need piano lessons but again he never took any of it in.

I would try to finance myself, but I'm only 14, I don't even have a National Insurance number, any job I could get would most likely be not well paid.

I've not passed grade 1 piano, but I'm ready to take the exam, I know I am (I'm honestly not trying to be big headed), and I get clarinet lessons in of the school. (the school lessons are free because I take music as a subject)

Have you discussed this with your mum? Can you help her with jobs around the house and have a secret between you that she pays for lessons privately?

I would do anything for my kids to be tidy and wash up etc...even dusting...

You really need a teacher to confirm you are ready to sit grade 1.

Another thought.Have you talked to your school music teacher...not peri...about this? Would they help? Would they give up 30 mins of their lunch hour per week?

I've discussed it with my mum, but the helping around the house idea has been tryed before, and it didn't work.

My school teacher is supportive and she does a lot for me, but she is full of praise for the piano teacher and so wouldn't find a reason for not going to him. I don't think she would spare a half an hour because she is always busy, honestly, I considered asking but decided against it.

QUOTE

I've discussed it with my mum, but the helping around the house idea has been tryed before, and it didn't work.

What went wrong?

QUOTE

I don't think she would spare a half an hour because she is always busy, honestly, I considered asking but decided against it.

If you never ask, you never will know the reply.Ask her very nicely and see if she will consider over a period of time,like 4 weeks.

You're obviously very keen. Don't give up. Try to persuade your parents that this is something you really want to do and you are prepared to earn enough money yourself to pay for it if necessary. Doing a paper round would give you enough for a lesson once a fortnight. If you can convince them of your enthusiasm they may come round in the end and pay for the lessons. Good luck.

A paper round is a very good suggestion; if getting up at the crack of dawn is out of the question you could try doing one after school. You could also offer to wash neighbours' cars, or mow their lawns etc, or walk peoples' dogs. Or do you have a generous granny or grandad who might be persuaded to help?

However, surely the best thing is to keep leaning on your parents; could you persuade your mother to get round your father?

Violinia

After a year and a bit of barganing I have just conned my parents into giving me money for piano lessons. Our stories are extremly similar im 14, can't get a job and want to do music as a career with voice as a first instrument piano is really essential.
I am assuming that your parents are not musical? Have you tried the 'Your ruining my life" thing? or tried playing something for them and saying that you want to become so much better than you are now, but right now the teacher you have dosn't seem capable of helping you to get there.......just a thougt

Or how about just explaining to them that music can be a very viable career, particularly if you go into teaching.

The Head of Music in one of the schools I teach in is applying for the deputy headship of another school. He started out having private lessons; this led to him doing music at GCSE, then at A-level. He then went off to uni and did music, then a PGCE. Then he got a job in a school as music teacher and worked his way up to Head of Department. Now he's in a position to be a deputy head, which could lead one day to being a Head, which can bring in a salary of £80,000.

If you absolutely don't want to teach, there are many other careers in music, and you only have to show them a website on career options to convince them of this. They may think music is a silly thing to spend money on and if they can't be convinced of the intrinsic value of music as a subject, they may need to be convinced of other reasons why studying the piano could be a good move for you.

This is just one site I found on a quick search:

http://uk.music-jobs.com/index.php?affid=9999

Good luck!

Violinia

convince them that allowing you music lessons gives you more job options. that's the thinking of my mom when she signed me up for lessons when i was young.

i teach piano/keyboard part-time now and have 7 students per week, not bad for a part-timer. it allowed me more freedom in my expenses throughout my uni life. btw, my major is chemistry, nothing to do with music. lolz

determination helps, i bombarded my mom with the cutest hamster picture i could find for 1 year before she allowed me to bring one home. currently i have 5 hamsters. press on!

A couple of points Hulk:
Look on the bright side , you haven't been completely denied lessons. The lessons in school may not be everything you want but if the teacher is a good pianist may be you can still get a great amount from then. It could be a 2 way thing - if the teacher feels that you are unenthusiastic about their teaching they might find it difficult to be any more than "lethargic". You work hard & it may be they will be far more positive.
If you take lessons at school & get up through some of the grades that may prove to your dad that you are motivated & serious about your ambitions. He may then reconsider.
As a parent i think most children aren't really informed enough about how expensive life is. I appreciate you saying it's only £10 a week but that adds up to £40 a month, maybe £300+ a year. You don't say whether you have siblings - how much do they need for out of school activities - financially & time wise. You say the teacher is near - how near? Will you walk, bike, bus or need a lift? Maybe your Mum & dad just don't see how they can fit in another run to something else. I think if you keep at them then "no" will become a more concrete one
It's not that I don't feel sympathetic to your problem but life usually isn't fair. We just have to make the best of it. My nephew had a similar issue with the piano teacher at school & said that he wanted to have lessons privately with someone more motivating?! Surely most of the motivation has to come from within you? Certainly in the early grades I would have thought that your desire to succeed will be the most important factor, so long as the teacher is technically competent.

What about a different approach? Why not persevere with the teacher you had and do your best, get good results and work really hard. Then several months down the line complain to your parents that you are missing important academic subjects for piano lessons and you are worried you might not be able to catch up. As most of my students who give up do so for this reason parents obviously are concerned about their child's schoolwork, although they usually continue with me privately so I don't lose them. Obviously you would want a different teacher, but it just might work.

The main problem you mention with the school teacher is that he is lethargic- can you make up for it by taking control of the lessons? Ask questions all the time- ask him to demonstrate- how can you improve- and remember and act on the answers, maybe write your own guidance notes after the lesson. Don't let him listen to a piece and just say 'good, carry on' or whatever he does. If he isn't going to teach enthusiastically you can still gain a lot from his playing ability, but may need to be particularly enthusiastic about learning.

Good luck!

Hulk

Please forgive me for digressing from your post for just this once.

Some of you teachers may remember a thread back where I mentioned,abet briefly,that I was down 60 quid because a parent hadn't paid. Started Court proceedings and,as they have ignored the Court ,I now don't have to attend the hearing and can enter Judgment against them. I phoned the Court up to ask what I should do next. Anyway,the lady was very helpful... (they are going to be surprised when the baliffs turn up on their doorstep very soon )...but our conversation turned to lessons.

Transpires the lady's daughter has begun lessons in school,but they only last for 15 mins. I have mentioned this site to the lady and asked her to have a browse.

Do lessons in school,on average around the country,last for 15 mins or can this vary?

Hulk... Sorry about that. Please may I ask how long your clarinet lesson lasts for? If it's 30 mins would your parents be agreeable to increasing it to 45 mins,so perhaps you can have 15 mins piano and 30 mins clarinet one week and alternate each week?

Lots to say, but I will limit myself to..

talk to your school music teacher!!! A "busy" teacher doesn't not want to talk to you, far from it, what teacher can resist somebody who is interested in his/her subject? The truth is that they are just...busy! Be prepared to wait a few days, (or a week...), but go and ask your music teacher for advice and help in drawing up a plan of action.

And as a parent, I suspect your Dad wonders why you dropped school piano lessons if you were really interested in learning. That's how antiquated parental brains work!

Sorry for not replying to all of the posts, I had to come off the internet last night quite early, I'll try to answer some of the questions just now. If I don't reply to your post, I apologise and thank you for your ideas.

To Semele:

My clarinet lesson lasts for 30 mins, all of the school instrumental lessons do, and we can't increases lesson times as the timetables are full and it would run over into other people's lessons.

To Andy-piano-flute:

I have two other brothers, who don't need money for out of school activities, and the lessons are literally around the corner from me. I was very enthusiastic when I started piano, trying my hardest etc. and I continued like this until I stopped lessons.

To Violinia:

I desperately want to teach music, but if I can't then a career in music would be the next thing. My parents know of the advantages to a career in music, but for some reason, they think I won't be a music teacher, and I'm very confused as to why. I've tried to tell them that piano is very important for a career in music, but they don't seem to take it in. My mother is more sympathetic but not so much that she will side with me.

If I have missed out one of your question's please point them out and I will answer them.

QUOTE (Andy-piano-flute @ Apr 20 2005, 10:27 AM)

A couple of points Hulk: Look on the bright side , you haven't been completely denied lessons. The lessons in school may not be everything you want but if the teacher is a good pianist may be you can still get a great amount from then. It could be a 2 way thing - if the teacher feels that you are unenthusiastic about their teaching they might find it difficult to be any more than "lethargic".  You work hard & it may be they will be far more positive. If you take lessons at school & get up through some of the grades that may prove to your dad that you are motivated & serious about your ambitions. He may then reconsider. As a parent i think most children aren't really informed enough about how expensive life is. I appreciate you saying it's only £10 a week but that adds up to £40 a month, maybe £300+ a year. You don't say whether you have siblings - how much do they need for out of school activities - financially & time wise. You say the teacher is near - how near? Will you walk, bike, bus or need a lift? Maybe your Mum & dad just don't see how they can fit in another run to something else. I think if you keep at them then "no" will become a more concrete one It's not that I don't feel sympathetic  to your problem but life usually isn't fair. We just have to make the best of it. My nephew had a similar issue with the piano teacher at school & said that he wanted to have lessons privately with someone more motivating?! Surely most of the motivation has to come from within you? Certainly in the early grades I would have thought that your desire to succeed will be the most important factor, so long as the teacher is technically competent.

Hi Hulk,

I agree with the whole of this post by Andy piano-flute.

It might be if your dad was piano mad, he would be buying you a Bechstein Grand Piano and hunting down the world's best piano teacher for you. But he's not. So it's up to you to work out what you can do about it.

If by dedication and practise you can improve your piano playing "against the odds" of an unenthusiastic piano teacher, you begin to show how important the piano is to you, and that you're not just asking for stuff for the sake of it. Alternatively, if you really want to force a change of teacher immediately, the point about doing some work for your mum isn't just about whether you can raise the money that way, it's about showing how important this is to you - it's about starting off with what you are prepared to do yourself before making demands on others.

I'm sorry this looks a bit preachy - I know from reading your other posts that you do have a generally thoughtful and sound approach, and this post is not intended to suggest otherwise.

Parents see their chilren change their career plans so often that they are generally quite cautious about supporting an extra activity. As far as they can see you ARE getting piano and clarinet lessons! If they are not musically minded then its even harder to convince them that one paino teacher is different to another.

However, I do sympathise, if you want to be a music teacher the piano is very useful. Carry on with your current teacher and this will show them that you are very keen to learn the piano to a good standard. They may not be able to comprehend that a different teacher will make all the difference, but you are in early stages still, so take your G1 with your current teacher and bite your lip for a bit.

Second if you have a piano at home you can practise practise practise and this will again demonstrate your determinism and enthusiasm or drive them crazy!

A tip - my daughter had piano lessons until G3 then the funds ran out (other siblings)(and she was getting flute and vocal lessons) but she more or less taught herself at home and was able to perform the piano in the music audition at G5 level. She is now about to take her piano G8! AND THATS AFTER completing her music degree at a Conservatoire.

Be patient and Good Luck with your choice of Career.

Hulk, I was in a similar situation about 18 months ago when my violin teacher suggested that I should play viola instead of violin. When I suggested this to my parents they hit the roof and refused absolutely because they did not think that it would be good for me. About 6 months later my teacher brought up the subject again and volunteered to talk to my parents for me. After some discussion my parents eventually agreed to let me start viola and are now very happy that I'm playing my viola loads!

Maybe you should ask someone (your clarinet teacher perhaps?) to explain to your parents in a nice way how important good piano lessons will be to your future career. In the meantime, I suppose you should try and show your parents how committed you are to your music.

Best wishes,
Emma

hi there! Its so nice to hear a teenager so enthusiastic about learning to play an instrument but such a shame that your enthusiasm isnt getting you anywhere at the moment. I am aware that instrumental lessons can be seen as expensive - but then they arent a frivolous waste of money - crikey, there could be so many worse things you could be spending your parents money on!!
I guess you dad has his reasons but I really dont see that £10 a week is that much in the grand scheme of things. But hey, I dont know your dads reasons....

Do you have a piano in your house?? If all else fails, why not get yourself a few books and teach your self to some degree? I don't know whether this method will be frowned upon - but it isnt impossible to teach yourself an instrument. Of course, the main problem with this is you learn some bad habits - but if you get the right books (do libraries loan piano methods??) this could be avoided.

I just dont know what else to suggest - I know that when I have kids, if they show such an interest in something then I will give them my encouragement and backing. Maybe if your dad can see how frustrated and upset you are then he will change his mind?

Alternatively, get him to look at this forum!(although maybe not the post about him being tight fisted!!! ha ha)

Good luck!

PS where do u live? if it near me (wimbledon, london) i could give u discounted lessons!!

Thanks for your advice flutey toot, yes, it wouldn't be a good idea to show him the tight fisted post! I live in Glasgow, so it would be sort of impractical to start lessons with you although I thank you for the offer. I have a good keyboard (with a sustain pedal) and since I stopped lessons I have started to self teach my self, but as you said, I don't want to slip into bad habits, and a teacher seems like a good way not to slip into bad habits. I don't know my dad's reasons either, I think they are that while there are piano lessons available in school, what is the point in getting lessons outside of school, and even though I've explained my reasons, he keeps disregarding them. I know £10 a lesson would amount to a high amount after a year, but it's worth it, but it's near impossible to get my dad to see that.

QUOTE (Hulk @ Apr 19 2005, 09:06 PM)

I get clarinet lessons out of the school. (the school lessons are free because I take music as a subject)

Well could you alternate between piano and clarinet alternate weeks with the same teacher. I'm sure the clarinet teacher will know enough to teach you the piano?

Alternatively,approach another piano teacher...perhaps one of your teachers might approach them on your behalf and explain the situation, and see if you could do some sort of work for them ie if you lived near me,you could cut my lawn!!!! or wash their car instead of paying. It's called bartering.

Sorry Semele, I had a typo in one of my posts....I get clarinet lessons IN school. Must apologise for it!

After much more desperately trying to convey to my dad my situation, he said, if I try lessons with the school teacher again, and it doesn't work out at all, then we'll work something out about lessons outside of school. I'm going to be as enthusiastic as possible with the school teacher and if there is still no change, I will talk to my dad.

Thanks for all of the advice, it was really helpful, and this time sheer determination pulled through!