Inspired by this board, I've decided to take Grade 1 piano. Yes folks, I have no piano grades at all, and I'm quite embarrassed about it. I can twiddle around on a piano fairly well, but with a weird technique (self-taught), can't sightread with any speed, but can play quite complex pieces if I learn them by heart first. - like Debussy's Clair de Lune. But give me something I've never seen before and I'll struggle like a right amateur.

So - at a ripe old age - I've decided to do something about it and put myself in for grade 1. Bought the selected pieces today and shall start trying them out in the next couple of days. Any tips would be gratefully received!

If I actually manage to get grade 1, then I might put myself through grade 2 and then get a teacher for grade 3. Better see how it goes before planning ahead. I just think that as a violin peri in rooms where there are pianos I should be able to sit at the piano and accompany them properly, rather than make it up - it's probably the least a peri should be able to do.

So here goes! Better get the rusty old piano tuned first, though... it's all covered in dust and way out of tune.

Violinia

Congratulations Violinia - I hope you make it and do really well at Grade 1.

I think, as teachers, we all need to challenge ourselves at times to remind ourselves how hard it is for our students when they set out. (We can so easily forget as the years pass by.)

I took up the clarinet for a while a couple of years ago for this very reason. It confused me no end, coming as I did from being an oboist, because of all the different fingerings and mouth position. I got to about Grade 3 standard and then had to give up through lack of time - but it was an excellent experience.

Good Luck and hope it works out well for you.

Yeah, good luck with it. I also am planning on taking grade 1 violin soon, however uni work is getting on top of me and I have to put that first, so possibly later in the year. A popular piece with my students is C1, In the Pink, I'm sure you will love it.

Anyway let us know how it all goes and good luck.

Joy

Well done for taking the plunge! I hope you enjoy exploring the pieces. For what it's worth, most seem to like Giga - nearly everyone I've tried that out with has taken to it in the first week.

Arabian Air is nice but needs very neat hand co-ordination. I like Sleeping Cat but not everyone does - and I guess in that group you might naturally go for In the Pink ! I also quite like the humour in Eeyore's march - but I've not yet managed to get anyone to finish learning it - kids can be really conservative sometimes.

Das Echo seems fairly instantly popular but it's not my favourite - still - it did score best mark for one candidate! I think the March is difficult for the grade and have not yet tried it with anyone. Just a few observations after the first term.

I think Oboist makes a very good point - it's vital for us to find new challenges. Not sure what my next one is - have been turning over a few ideas ...

Good luck - and get that piano tuned!!

Maggie

Good for you - go for it

QUOTE (maggiemay @ Apr 20 2005, 08:38 AM)

I think Oboist makes a very good point - it's vital for us to find new challenges. Not sure what my next one is - have been turning over a few ideas .

A nice Kodaly course in Shirley???!!

While I applaud this brave decision, might I recommend finding a teacher before Grade 1, rather than after Grade 2, particularly as you admit to having a 'weird technique'?

Have you ever taken on a violin student from another teacher, and spent ages untying technical knots that could have been sorted out so much easier if tackled sooner? Faulty technique leads to enormous wrist and finger tension alarmingly quickly - particularly when grappling with a strange instrument, 2 clefs, etc. It would be much better to have it kept an eye on before any strange habits become firmly embedded.

I'm wondering whether there's a piano teacher at one of the schools where you work who might like to trade violin lessons/improvisation ideas or whatever with you? I'm sure there would be many teachers who'd love to work with a motivated student such as yourself - and preferably before you get too much further.

Best of luck!

Helen

Good idea! Nothing wrong with grade 1, by the way

Congratulations Violinia!! I agree with Helen too. The violin isn't the only instrument that requires a good technique and posture right from the start! Even if you just have a couple of lessons to make sure you are sitting correctly and playing notes and chords with the correct fingers etc. I went to a Violin teacher friend for a couple of lessons and the few tips he gave me have been invaluable in putting me in the right direction. I'm already doing Grade 3 pieces with confidence after just a few months.
If you need any advice or tips from myself or others here just ask away. We can trade tips on each others instruments!

I'll start......
When I have been playing on the A or E string and move back to the D string, I can never get the G perfectly in tune. Does this get better with practice over the years and will I eventually know where it is with ease? When I first start a piece I always tune it in to the G string first and then play it alright but when I move onto play another string and then come back, quite often I'm out of tune again. It also happens with the D and A too because they are in the same position. Should I put a sticker on the notes for now until I get them spot on or is doing it by trial and error a more important way of doing it?
Thanks
Gae

Gae

Congratulations Violinia! Thats great news. I'm sure you have no problem with grade 1.
I'm sure you will want to make it as easy as possible, so for what its worth, here are the pieces which are the most popular with my students:
A1 Giga (one is doing A6, but she already learnt it before we discovered it was on the syllabus)
B3 Das Echo or B6 Bagatelle
C1 In the Pink or C5 Goldfishes
Good luck! If you want any advice, give me a shout.

QUOTE

Should I put a sticker on the notes for now until I get them spot on or is doing it by trial and error a more important way of doing it?

Gae!!!!! NO, NO, NO......don't put stickers on the fingerboard

I know there are lots of teachers who do this for pupils, but it leads to 'lazy ears'. You'll just get used to placing your third finger where the sticker is, rather than listening to what you are playing. You are listening at the moment, and that's the best and only way to secure intonation. Yes, it tales a long time to perfect intonation - if such a thing entirely exisits - but you will thank me for this advice one day


Good luck, Violinia

I'm absolutely rubbish on the piano myself, mainly because I have exceptionally small hands that leave me struggling to play chords Like you I can play things I've learned, but nothing else. Maybe I should also look at doing Grade 1 piano. As a pair of violinists we could then compare notes (if you'll pardon the pun) on our progress

QUOTE

A nice Kodaly course in Shirley???!!

In SHIRLEY? Very close to me, any more details please?

Juze - I think there are several 'Shirley's in this country! The one I'm talking about is in Croydon, South London...

QUOTE (Posted by AmandaL on Apr 20 2005 @ 01:41 PM)

Gae!!!!! NO, NO, NO......don't put stickers on the fingerboard

Thank you for making that so vehemently clear!! I dont think I would have done it anyway as I did feel it would be as bad an idea as putting letters on piano keys. Can we trade hands temporarily please? I can reach a 10th comfortably on the piano but my large hands aren't really suited for the violin. I tried playing two notes together a few weeks ago with no success. I think it was an open A string with an F# played below on the D string. My thick finger was catching both strings, no matter how I tried to position it.
I guess I'll just stick to playing single notes and the ocassional arpeggios for now!

Gae

QUOTE

A nice Kodaly course in Shirley???!!

Well .......... it's a thought !


Maggie

QUOTE

My thick finger was catching both strings, no matter how I tried to position it.

By the sounds of it you have hands just like my mum. She has quite chubby fingers.

Even an octave on the piano is a bit of a s..t..r..e.t...c..h for me, whereas double stops, ninths and playing stopped strings next to open strings on the violin are easy. I sometimes wonder whether we are destined to be good at playing certain instruments because our hands particularly suit the shape we want them to form.

Keep persevering Gae, don't ever feel defeated...........
.......unlike me, attempting the piano

I hope you do well in the exam! It my be a good idea to get better at sight reading because then you might find it easier. Good luck.

Musicbox xxx

Good luck with your piano playing, Violinia. I hope you keep it up and get to a level where you can accompany your students for their exam pieces.

I think it is a tribute to your character as a teacher that you are prepared to come down from the heady heights of your violin playing and re-define yourself as a "rookie piano player" in order to work on that so you can help your students even more.

Don't go to the other extreme with the piano though - although it was very helpful around exam time to have a violin teacher who also played piano, I always enjoyed lessons more when we were both on violin - both because I preferred the sound, and also because there's something less face to face about a teacher sitting with her back to you at the piano, even if she twists her head round and stares at you.

The other thing that I remember is although my teacher had grade 8 piano, and used to accompany in lessons and early exams, she arranged a professional accompanist for the exams after grade V.

Gaetano: re your stubby fingers:

Although this is a problem which might make you a more natural viola player, you can at least minimise the problem on violin by presenting the narrowest profile of your fingers to the strings, i.e. coming down right on your fingertips (the bit you would poke someone in the eye with, rather than the bit you would flick a light switch with.) In order to do this you need your fingernails cut short, ideally to the point that there is no "white line", and your fingers are lifted and dropped from the second joint from the fingertip. If you think about it, people with narrower fingers than you have to deal with the same problems you are describing as they play in higher and higher positions where the fingers are closer and closer together.

I have said this before, and am not suggesting any rush, particularly as you have just got your new Gliga violin, but if at some point in the future you ever get a chance to have a go on a nice viola, have a little play and see what you think. The obvious opportunities would be if you have a viola playing friend, or if you join a local orchestra, or if you go into a violin shop (there's one in Rufus Court in Chester with some nice instruments (£££ - don't get his hopes up that you're going to buy anything!).

QUOTE

Juze - I think there are several 'Shirley's in this country! The one I'm talking about is in Croydon, South London...

Cyrilla....... yes, that's the one! I'm a few miles south of there.

Good for you Violinia! I've got a friend learning grade 1 piano pieces, I'll ask her if there are any particularly good ones!
Good luck!

Juze and Maggie - well, please just let me know if you want to join my class!

I'm currently running an Elementary level one on Thursdays 7.30-9.30pm. It's not THAT elementary, actually! 10 of the 11 students are music teachers of one sort or another and already include two AB Forums members ('Hammerklavier' and 'Bagpuss').

I think we will probably be at the stage of doing the Elem exam in about November. I know at least some of the students want to carry on to Intermediate Level after that.

In September I'll probably be starting up another Elem class. So you can either start then if you want to 'start at the very beginning' (BLAST! Julie Andrews again!) or jump in now or September for the one that's already going.

Do let me know if you are interested or want to know any more. Some Forums members have my e-mail address (clarinetlover, neil.clarinet, sbhoa to name a few), otherwise we'll have to keep posting on here in the absence of the PM function....

yaya go Violinai heeh!

im expeting nothing less than 149

QUOTE (Posted by Zoda on Apr 20 2005 @ 05:01 PM)

I have said this before, and am not suggesting any rush, particularly as you have just got your new Gliga violin, but if at some point in the future you ever get a chance to have a go on a nice viola, have a little play and see what you think.

Zoda, are you sure you're not on commission for either ElidaTrading or the stringed musical instrument industry? I've just bought a new violin and now your'e talking about Violas!!



I suppose I could always put a C string on my old violin, as suggested elsewhere on the board and turn it into a viola. In fact, my old violin does seem a bit bigger than the new one. Maybe it is a viola and was just strung incorrectly!

I have tried what you suggested but unfortunately my fingers are quite short too!! I have quite wide hands though, hence the ease at which I can span a 10th on the piano!

Gae

Thanks very much to oboist, joyjoy, maggiemay, carys, helenVJ, trememlololo, noodle, AmanadaL, musicbox, zoda, rainbow and nat for all your kind comments and encouragement. I partly mentioned it here because I'll probably need nagging to actually get on with it, and woke up realising I'm going to have to post my mark here - aarrgh!!! What if I fail???!!!???

My weird technique is an awkwardness with hand position resulting in a slightly "claw-like" look to my hands, especially when playing a wide chord. This has resulted from years of twiddling around without any lessons, which allowed a dodgy technique to persist.

OK, the truth about lessons: I had piano lessons for about six months when I was 6, but gave up when my (horrible) teacher threatened to burst my party balloons if I made a mistake. I burst into tears, teacher had his services terminated, I switched to violin and that was that. After that I'd go to the piano for some light relief after all the violin practising (sometimes spending more time on it than the violin - there's a lesson in there somewhere). I learnt pieces like Bach's Prelude 1 which I can still play, a few other Bach pieces, Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata and a bit of Debussy but my sightreading's slow, because you have to read so many notes at once, and although I'm a good sightreader on violin, you only have to read one note at a time!!!

I have huge admiration for good piano sightreaders and have always secretly envied them their skill. I also hugely admire jazz pianists and would absolutely LOVE to be able to play jazz piano convincingly. The aim, as well as being able to accompany students efficiently in lessons, is to reach a standard where I can take up jazz piano (with a teacher). With Grade 1 I'm going to see how far I can get on my own, but have a couple of lessons before the exam to straighten out any problems.

Haven't even phoned the piano tuner yet!!!

More lesson info: I did have piano lessons again about 20 years ago for about 6 months; I'd fallen madly in love with a pianist and wanted to be able to impress him. The teacher was really good and my playing got a lot more fluid, but it's all gone rusty again through lack of use, and the only keyboard I'm any good on is the one I'm tapping on right now.

Needless to say, the pianist only had eyes for a dancer.

As soon as the piano's tuned I'll let you know which pieces I'm going for. I'm really looking forward to getting started!!!

Thanks again for all your encouragement

Violinia

PS

QUOTE

I'm wondering whether there's a piano teacher at one of the schools where you work who might like to trade violin lessons/improvisation ideas or whatever with you?

- HelenVJ

Great idea, and could be workable. I'm already giving jazz violin lessons to a student teacher at one of my schools; she's moving on soon but there could be others

QUOTE

When I have been playing on the A or E string and move back to the D string, I can never get the G perfectly in tune. Does this get better with practice over the years and will I eventually know where it is with ease? When I first start a piece I always tune it in to the G string first and then play it alright but when I move onto play another string and then come back, quite often I'm out of tune again. It also happens with the D and A too because they are in the same position. Should I put a sticker on the notes for now until I get them spot on or is doing it by trial and error a more important way of doing it?

- Gae

A lot of my students have the same problem when they're starting out. Don't put a sticker on but use your ear to gradually train your finger to go down in the right place. It just takes time, and you'll also find that eventually you'll get really good at moving your finger into tune really quickly when you do hit the wrong spot from time to time. Basically it's a matter of "muscle-memory" paired with ear-training, and practise does make perfect as long as your ear knows what it ought to sound like!

QUOTE

Don't go to the other extreme with the piano though - although it was very helpful around exam time to have a violin teacher who also played piano, I always enjoyed lessons more when we were both on violin - both because I preferred the sound, and also because there's something less face to face about a teacher sitting with her back to you at the piano, even if she twists her head round and stares at you.

- zoda

Yes, good point. My violin teacher always had her own violin at the ready, as I do, and I would have found it a bit incongrous if she'd played piano - after all, I needed her to demonstrate on the instrument I was actually learning. However, I just think it shows good faith if the violin teacher is proficient on another instrument as well as violin - it demonstrates a rounded musicality, and I've noticed their eyes widen if I ever accompany them on guitar - 'wow, you play that too!' etc etc. It helps them to realise what fun you can have with music and how varied it can all be.

Good luck Violinia and don't worry, you won't fail! It's always good to see people taking up a new challenge; I'm sure that you have the determination and ability to do well.

Good luck Violinia - look forward to hearing updates on how the piano lessons are going.

QUOTE (Violinia @ Apr 21 2005, 11:22 AM)

I partly mentioned it here because I'll probably need nagging to actually get on with it, and woke up realising I'm going to have to post my mark here - aarrgh!!!

No problem! My students will confirm that I am an expert when it comes to nagging!
Don't worry, you will do well. Give me a shout if you need any guidance.

Good luck Violinia! My sis keeps threatening to put me in for Grade 1 flute, which would be a laugh for the examiner if nothing else...

Ah - 'Sleeping Cat' is, I think, modal (saw the Gr 1 pieces briefly when the new ones came out) - Mixolydian if my memory serves me well - so you might feel strangely drawn to it!

Good luck, Violinia. Go for it!

QUOTE

My sis keeps threatening to put me in for Grade 1 flute, which would be a laugh for the examiner if nothing else...

I put my husband in for Grade 1 flute two years ago, after 6 months playing and a tiny bit of tuition. He got 128! He hasn't gone any further, though. He just wanted the certificate to impress my mother-in-law.

QUOTE (Cyrilla @ Apr 21 2005, 04:27 PM)

Ah - 'Sleeping Cat' is, I think, modal (saw the Gr 1 pieces briefly when the new ones came out) - Mixolydian if my memory serves me well

Yes I think Sleeping Cat is mixolydian but its over 15 years since I did modes at uni. Is that like G major without the F# or am I thinking of Hammerklavier's Bagpuss scale??

Good Luck,Violinia,and I wish you every success.

Go for it,Gal

QUOTE (Gae @ Apr 20 2005, 10:27 PM)

Zoda, are you sure you're not on commission for either ElidaTrading or the stringed musical instrument industry?

The kickbacks haven't started to arrive yet - but its surely only a matter of time

(actually I think I've got more chance of Liz paying me to shut up - it seems she gets embarrassed by my gliga rants)

I wasn't suggesting you buy a viola - only to see how the problem you describe is affected by having a go on somebody else's viola. It's just that the fingers and the strings are so much more spaced out (and also what you think of the tone). You don't have to do anything with the knowledge from your tests, but at least it's there - you don't know what choices about instruments/ orchestras the future may hold for you; when I left university 12 years ago - having sat inches from the viola section for 3 years, and walked part of the coast to coast walk with a viola player, I never imagined I would ever pick a viola up let alone play viola in an orchestra, but now I am doing.

noodle - yes, G major with F natural would be Mixolydian.

It's soh-soh in solfa, or you can think of it as a major scale with a flattened 7th.

Purrrrr............

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the suggested speed for Sleeping Cat is a bit fast? A bit like a running around cat...
I think it sounds much better slower...

And it sounds a bit rushed on the CD too.

Good Luck Violinia!
I'm glad you started taking piano exams!

GO YOU! I think that's fantastic, I'm sure you'll find your progress is very fast with all your musical background, and especially if you get a good teacher when you've moved on a bit!

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Apr 20 2005, 07:54 PM)

yaya go Violinai heeh! im expeting nothing less than 149

thats a bit low isnt it?!

Good lUck and enjoy it

Welcome to the piano family

am just a new pianist too lol! If your heart is in it, you will excel faster

trust me on that

QUOTE (sbhoa @ Apr 22 2005, 10:39 AM)

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the suggested speed for Sleeping Cat is a bit fast? A bit like a running around cat... I think it sounds much better slower... And it sounds a bit rushed on the CD too.  <_<

Yes, I think it should be a bit slower too. The cat is supposed to be relaxing - not sprinting the 200 metres!

QUOTE

QUOTE (sbhoa @ Apr 22 2005, 10:39 AM) Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the suggested speed for Sleeping Cat is a bit fast?

Yes it does seem a bit quick. I'm sure my grade 1 pupil who took it last term didn't play it quite that fast.

I love the bit towards the end where the cat stretches ...

Good for you! I've just got back into piano after a 6 year break and retook Grade 1 in March - afraid to say I didn't quite achieve 149, but got 143 which I was quite happy about!!

Hey, good for you! Hope you do well!

Thanks for all your kind comments and encouragement. I have to admit the only thing I've done so far is buy the book - I haven't even booked the piano tuner yet as I've been a bit preoccupied this week with a jazz workshop I had to run this morning.

Will book piano tuner tomorrow and keep you informed as to progress Can't wait to get started and I think having you all here to talk to will make it much more fun than struggling away on one's own, so to speak.



Violinia

Hope you have booked the piano tuner! Have you tried any pieces yet?