I have just started a new pupil on aural training. He can't sing notes back accurately at all. Is there a magic formula or shall I just go very slowly concentrating on one note at a time and get him also to hum the note first?
He is a little shy about singing but that is not the main problem. Will it take ages?

Katie

Is it a problem with pitch or with remembering the phrase he has to sing? What grade are you working on?
If its a memory problem start with two or three notes within a third and vary the pattern and gradually increase the range until he can sing phrases similar in length to the examples for the grade. Persevere, he'll get there eventually - with regular practice.

Try this:

Sing him a note within his range, and ask him to wait five seconds while he memorises it and then sings it back to you.

Then do the same with a new note, and ask him to increase the time to 10 seconds.

Then 20 seconds.

Then 30 seconds.

Then a minute.

He will enjoy it, as it's a game and a challenge.

You will be amazed at the results.

Violinia

QUOTE (Violinia @ Apr 27 2005, 11:20 PM)

Try this: Sing him a note within his range, and ask him to wait five seconds while he memorises it and then sings it back to you. He will enjoy it, as it's a game and a challenge. You will be amazed at the results. Violinia

Thanks for that Violinia! I must try that. Sometimes I do a rhythm exercise like that, but not a singing one.

Katie - it may take a while if he has a pitch problem, but persevere- it will be worth it.

As has been said many times on the forums, many children do not sing in school any more. Tnose who do often sing material that is pitched low and has a very limited range. It is sometimes genuinely difficult to tell whether a child has a pitch difficulty or just a very tiny range. This seems to me to be different from when I started teaching, when most children seemed able to sing more or less in tune, and there were a few "growlers". I meet many more of the "indeterminate" variety it seems. (Or am I just looking back through rose-tinted specs? I don't think so though)!!

You don't say how old your pupil is. Do as Violinia suggested and get him to match notes from your own voice, rather than from an instrument? Some children find this easier, especially in the early stages.

Best of luck

Maggie

Thanks for all those helpful suggestions!
The pupil is 10 years old and it is definately a pitch problem.
I am just helping him with his aural as he learns a brass instrument at school and has always got bad marks in aural so his Mum asked me would I be able to help him before his Grade 3 this Summer, hence my question on would it take long. I don't want the parents to feel they are wasting their money!!!!
I know he is very intelligent and I really want to help him.

Katie

I have heard that pitching a note from the piano can be harder than a vocal note but as far as I am aware aural is always given on a piano?

They won't be wasting their money, but results may not be that obvious straight away. I have known it take much longer than a term, and they might need to take on board that there is no instant fix with aural!

Yes, I think the test in the exam is with a piano, but I would use voice in the early stages to help him get the hang of it and build confidence. You're not testing what he'll do in the exam yet - you're teaching him aural skills.

Maggie

Hi!
I am currently trying to do the aural training for most of the associated board entry kids this year at one of my schools, as a lot of the other instructors don't play piano. Because of this, aural has been a bit neglected for some of them! I have found some daft things really helpful, the favourite with wee boys being to make it into a 'game' to start with. I always do one myself with a silly voice to start with, so thery feel less self-conscious, then get them to sing in different ways - piano, forte, like an opera singer, like a pop star, they usually find this quite funny. I try to do my ear training in groups as well, so that they can start off all singing together until they get some confidence. obviously, as the exam approaches, you will have to dispense with games etc, and i find that the main problem is usually that the child doesn't take a deep enough breath to get a decent sound out - hence the 'sing like an opera singer' type games. make sure they stand straight etc.
if the child sings on a 'monotone' its worth trying to establish if he is hearing what you are playing or not. 99 times out of 100, they can hear just fine, so i start playing a rhythm using one note, then graduate to using the 3rd above - a bit more obvious without testing the range too much than a 2nd or semitone. a lot of kids find semitones really difficult to pitch, and sometimes i have found problems with minor keys - they want to go ' major' with the 3rds! I know the grade 3 tests have a range of 1 8ve, but start low and work up. if the child is frustrated, alternate with the 'appreciation' tests where they answer questions on the music - bet he's quite good at that! the singing back and 'spot the change of rhythm or melody' questions often cause the most problems for me so i alternate the hard work with the ones where they get to hear you play - less fun for me, but great for them!
hope this helps!
emma

Has anyone any tips/book recommendations for an adult with similar problems? She's a growler - her voice is frankly not pleasant to listen to! - and she never sings in tune - her voice will rise and fall with the pitch of the song, just not enough (I often sit next to her in church, that's how I know!)... I don't think she could sing back a note even within her "range" such as it is. I'm starting flute lessons almost-from-scratch with her soon. I don't think it should be too much of a problem exam wise, because I don't think she'd be wanting to take them, or not any time soon, but I do think that aural training is so very beneficial anyway, and just to help her start to sing vaguely in tune would be a huge step for her, plus I also find getting pupils to sing the tunes before they play is helpful for getting the tune and rhythm right, but it's not likely to work for Becky! I don't want to do loads on it or concentrate too hard on it because I think that would make her very self-conscious, but I'd like to integrate a little aural work into each lesson right from the word go so that she will (I hope!) make a gradual improvement. I've yet to find out if she can hear pitch, or if she has problems hearing the difference as well as reproducing it...

Any ideas, tips, thoughts?