In the first question of grade 8 theory papers, you have to fill in the gaps of a trio sonata. I have been told that if a seventh is required but is not in the prevouis chord, to leave it out as the continuo would fill in any gaps in the harmony.

However, someone else has said that the seventh is a really important note and if ness. can be approached by step from the previous chord.

Are there any theory teachers out there willing to comment?

Is there nobody in this Forum able to help me with grade 8 theory????

Hi Debbie

Baroque ears preferred the seventh to be prepared by being sounded in the previous chord, in the same voice\instrument and at the same pitch. After sounding, the seventh was resolved by falling a semitone.

I assume that you are filling in the missing parts of a trio sonata with figured bass. If the seventh is not prepared, then I suggest leaving it to the continuo player. There is an element of speculation here; I taught 'A' level music for many years but was involved with 2 part counterpoint, Bach chorales and classical string quartets, not baroque trio sonatas.

I will do some research and try to get back to you with a 'definitive' answer, unless someone contributes in the meantime.

Brave of you to do grade 8 theory - some of it is harder than 'A' level.

Steve

Hi again, Debbie

I have had a look around my academic texts; there is nothing that gives a definitive list of do's and dont's for trio sonatas. I am waiting for a call back from a colleague who, I think, had to compose a trio sonata in baroque style as part of his degree course at Manchester uni.

In the meantime, I have a score of a movement from a trio sonata by Corelli, composed in 1689. The movement is scored for violin 1, violin 2 and continuo (cello and keyboard).

I can see that where one of the violins are providing a dissonant 7th this dissonance is prepared by being sounded in the previous chord.

I can also see several examples of the 7th missing from the violin parts. The cello will not be providing it because it doubles the continuo bass line, so the keyboard continuo must be providing it.

I can also see 1 example of an unprepared 7th being approached by step - standard practice in 2 part counterpoint but not in 17th century 4 part harmony. I would try to avoid this for now.

To sum up:
* Prepare the seventh by sounding it in the same instrument, at the same pitch in the previous chord if you are using it in one of the 'solo' parts.
* The seventh demanded by the figured bass doe not necessarily have to be in the 'solo' parts. It may be provided by the keyboard continuo, so that answers the question you posted.

I will try to confirm all this later.

If you want me to run my eye over your efforts, scan them into your computer and get my email address from my website www.hopwood3.freeserve.co.uk and email me the file. I will look at it with pleasure.

Steve

HI Debbie

May I ask, do you have a teacher or are you self teaching? The reason I ask is I am about to start Grade 8 theory myself, I have a teacher but she totally refuses to mark my work in the lesson and charges me for her doing marking in her own time. I would rather she marked it in the lesson but she wont This means of course, I pay approx an hour extra fee each week when shes marking past papers, (about half an hour for workbook questions. She writes down EXACTLY how long it took her and bills me when I get to an hours time) half of my lesson is used anyway while she explains the marks to me and last but not least, I am without my workbook and unable to continue in the week that she's marking

Sometimes in the past I have photocopied the relevant page for her to mark so that I may keep my book which solves that issue but another problem is that by the time we get to discuss my answers, I cant really remember what my reasoning was for each individual question as it has been between 1 and 2 weeks since I did the working

I have done grades 6 and 7 with her but I am thinking of just trying to do it myself for this grade as I find that all this holds me back and is very difficult financially too. Also, she has actually told me that she marks grades 1-5 in lesson time but not the higher grades! I also know that I am the only "higher" grade student so essentially it is only me who has to pay!! What do you think? Is it possible without a teacher?

Hi again, Debbie

Final confirmation.

According to the 'rules':
* You can leave the 7th out of the solo parts - the keyboard continuo will supply it. For the purposes of the grade 8 exam, though, you want to try to include it so that you show the examiner that you can.
* Prepare the 7th if at all possible. If not possible, look again at the previous chord and make sure you have not done something wrong. Questions are usually framed in such a way as to make 'correct' part-writing possible.
* The two solo parts are usually playing 2 part counterpoint. You can use unprepared 7ths in two part counterpoint providing that you 1) approach it in contrary motion between the parts and 2) both parts move by step.

Have fun


Steve

Hi Steve, thankyou so much for all your efforts in answer to my question. I will hopefully send you some work to look at but it may take me a while to work out how. I do enjoy theory. and am very gratefull to you for replying.

Yamaha, yes i do have a teacher, she's retired and doesn't charge a lot and refuses to take payment for marking in her own time. However, she's not that authoritative in some areas. I do appreciate all the problems you've come across. It certainly sounds like you've got a particularly ungenerous teacher! A lot of the work for grade 8 you can do yourself using the work books. I've got both ABRSM ones and Anna Butterworth Harmony in Practice.

QUOTE (Debbie @ May 11 2005, 10:18 AM)

Hi Steve, thankyou so much for all your efforts in answer to my question. I will hopefully send you some work to look at but it may take me a while to work out how. I do enjoy theory. and am very gratefull to you for replying.

You're welcome, Debbie. Post it to me if you want - my address is on the website.