I thought I'd field question this to all teachers and any students who read this particular forum, to see what they thought. (I've also put it on the Viva Violin forum, so apologies if you have read it twice).

A colleague of mine has had an enquiry from a potential private violin student. Apparently the girl was rather upset by a comment made at the end of her first lesson with a different teacher. She is not a beginner, she is an advanced student (post-G8 but not quite diploma level).

At the end of her lesson this teacher had said, "I really don't like your violin, it's rather harsh and coarse sounding".

Quite frankly I was taken aback by this What sort of teacher makes that sort of rude comment to a student they've only just met Apart from anything else the girl herself actually likes the violin, and it was the best her parents could afford anyway.

Responses to this appreciated.

oh my god how could he/she be so harsh on her first lesson with her/him

That's awful. Fair enough if the violin was really bad to tactfully suggest it was time for an upgrade (though it sounds like that would be out of the question), but that's just plain rude - and would be even to a student the teacher had known for some time.

Damn cheek. I wouldn't return to this teacher after a comment like that.

I think its downright rude for a teacher to say that to any student especially one they had just met. Eventually it may have been appropriate to suggest upgrading to a better instrument for diploma. I wonder does this teacher have a violin selling business on the side? Its quite possible that someone that blunt was hoping for a sale.

that IS a pretty blunt way of saying things!! However, at the end of the first lesson with a new flute pupil, I discussed with her how she found playing her flute. I generally reccommend a nice Yamaha student model as they can easily take someone up to Grade 5. However her flute was a random model that I had never heard of and was really holding her back so I said IN A NICE WAY that it would be in her best interest to purchase a new flute as then she will be able to progress further.
I hope that wasnt too blunt of me! She certainly didnt seem upset and in fact her parents went out and bought one straight away and now she sounds so much better!

Its true that a duff instrument can hold someone back (I had a basic Yamaha all the way to my 3rd year at RCM then FINALLY got a better one!!) but you need to be subtle and tactful in the way you go about saying that to the student.

I don't think that being so blunt is necessary. If an instrument change was definitely considered necessary, then the teacher should of explained this to your friend after a lesson or two, rather than just basically saying 'your instrument is trash' at the end of the first lesson! Also, what position is the new teacher in to comment-although I will assume that they are well-qualified if they can take on a post-G8 student?

Having had another 'dig' for information, it turns out my colleague has now given this student a lesson and I can update you.

Apparently the violin isn't bad at all. It's a 19th century instrument of good quality and it is maintained by the resident luthier of the RCM. He has played it himself, for setting up purposes, and liked it. I guess we all have different tastes, but I was totally gobsmacked that the teacher said what he did just because he personally didn't like the instrument

Sounds like the most likely explanation is: that teacher is a plonker. She's well shot of him. Even if the violin had actually been awful there's no excuse for being rude: as it is, sounds like he's just showed his ignorance... he deserved to lose her custom.

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ May 7 2005, 10:56 PM)

he deserved to lose her custom.

maybe that's what he was trying to do in the first place...?

maybe so - there are ways to do that without being rude or upsetting anyone. if a student is "trying out" teachers to find a new teacher, it's perfectly reasonable for either side to say "I'm sorry, I don't want to teach/be taught by you, thank you very much, goodbye"... rubbishing someone's beloved instrument and upsetting them is not acceptable - and it's not going to get him more good students recommended to him is it?

QUOTE

QUOTE he deserved to lose her custom. maybe that's what he was trying to do in the first place...?

That thought crossed my mind

I sometimes wonder if some of these teachers are only looking to take on students who show potential prima-donna status. You'd be amazed how many teachers are very selelctive in who they will teach, whether it's by hiking their teaching fees to something ridiculous they know people won't pay, or making rude comments to the students either about their playing or the instrument.

She got his contact details from the classified ads in the back of "The Strad" magazine. I've had a glance through myself and it's the one who boasts having been an LPO player and solo appearances with the LSO. From my own experience, that doesn't mean he's a good teacher. He claims to teach all levels, but I have my doubts. I won't mention the name here, but everyone I've spoken to barely knows his name, let alone his playing. His number of recitals are an absolute drop in the ocean to what you'd expect from someone who has had a full career in music and is now retired from playing.

Looking back through old issues of the magazine, it would appear he advertises on a very regular basis........

Sounds like she had a fortunate escape...

Regarding the raising of lesson costs to be selective: A friend of mine wanted to move to London, so started the year by raising lesson prices from £25 to £35. Noone quit. He then raised to £50 an hour halfway through the year and noone quit.

Unsurprisingly, he then decided to remain where he was... he'd doubled his annual salary in only 2 goes.

I'm raising my prices at the end of the year too, but I already admittedly charge cheap prices, even for Northern Ireland.... for some reason noone wants to learn Sax here, especially Classical Sax.

QUOTE (DavidMusic @ May 15 2005, 04:17 AM)

A friend of mine wanted to move to London, so started the year by raising lesson prices from £25 to £35. Noone quit. He then raised to £50 an hour halfway through the year and noone quit. .

Those are scandalous prices! Even the NUM and ISM recommendations are way below that. I am curious as to why his students are paying such prices! Is he teaching post degree or what? And then even so ... I cant believe that his students arent struggling to meet those charges!

QUOTE

Is he teaching post degree or what? And then even so ... I cant believe that his students arent struggling to meet those charges!

It's not uncommon for top orchestral principals/leaders to charge £80 or more per hour for a lesson, but the average instrumental music teacher attempting to justify £100 an hour is outrageous

I charge £25 per hour, which is about the going rate and also in line with the suggested fees quoted by the MU. I've even tended to be a bit flexible on this if there is a committed and talented pupil who's parents are genuinely short of money - cash flow should not be a barrier to learning - especially if the pupil shows natural talent and a strong desire to learn. The reason for doing this is that I teach by example. When I was a child my father was termially ill and unable to work, but with the kind assistance of my teacher it was arranged for me to receive free individual violin lessons with him, via the local County Music Service.

If it hadn't been for that opportunity, then I would never have succeeded as a musician.

QUOTE (AmandaL @ May 19 2005, 11:33 AM)

I've even tended to be a bit flexible on this if there is a committed and talented pupil who's parents are genuinely short of money - cash flow should not be a barrier to learning - especially if the pupil shows natural talent and a strong desire to learn.

What goes around comes around. You reflect this individual's generosity. Students are benefitting from it years later.

I work on the same principle, and find that what I send around returns quite quickly. Happily, I try to send around kindness, generosity and understanding.

Nice, isn't it?