Hello everyone!

This is something that has been puzzling me for quite some time...what do we mean when we say someone is tone deaf? Is it someone who can hear what they are meant to sing but cannot translate it 'vocally' or does it mean someone can't hear themselves, they think they're singing in tune when they in fact are not???

For example, my boyfriend is very musical, plays guitar by ear very well, so obviously can hear what he wants to sing, but when he comes to sing, he cannot pitch a note! He flies about all over the place until he finds the note he wants (sounding like a strangled cat!) and is very hard to keep in tune!

It's funny, but I think it's something many of us take for granted. When I first started learning to sing, my teacher never had to 'teach' me to sing in tune, I already could, most people can naturally. Especially as I'd always sung from a very young age. But my boyfriends mother is quite musical and so I don't think it's because he never sung, I'm sure he did as a child, and I'm sure that helps tremendously.

But...how do you begin to teach a child or adult to sing in tune? It must be such a chore! I would perhaps get them to sing various scales, arpeggios and exercises to get them used to using the voice, but what else can you do to get them singing in tune??

Does anyone have the answers??Any feedback would be great! I think it's FASCINATING!!

My understanding of tone deafness is someone who has no pitch awareness whatsoever, i.e. can't distinguish between high and low notes. These people are apparently extremely rare, as most people can manage something, even if they can't sing for toffee.

As Deborah says, true tone deafness is extremely rare - I've never met anybody with it, though plenty who can't sing! Your boyfriend's case is much more a case of not (yet) being fully able to control all those tiny muscles in the back of his throat - just like me trying to get my fingers going right on a keyboard, as a non-piano player.

These people can be taught to sing, but yes, it is time consuming (just like teaching any instrument). He will have to learn that "this" muscle movement makes "this" sound, and also be aware of the pitch he is producing relative to the one he is aiming for. Having the ear for it seems to be the key.

I managed to teach a guy to sing while at uni - took a whole term but he could carry a tune by the end of it. Why not try with your boyfriend - who knows what he'll sound like by the time you've finished with him!!

My understanding is that "tone deaf" really means what it says - someone who has no concept of pitch whatsoever. A lot of people say they are "tone deaf" when what they mean is that they haven't mastered the skills to sing in tune.

A lot of children have this problem and if it is caught when they are young it can quickly and easily be solved. The problem is that still in many situations such children are labelled "groaners" or something equally awful and told to be quiet. They never try to sing again and grow up to be one/two note adults etc.

I spend quite a bit of time working with such adults to try and help them find a voice and a sense of pitch. Some sort fairly quickly, others never really quite get there totally reliably. Most can usually hear pitch quite well and hear what they are doing but need plenty of vocal exercises and careful, patient help to locate pitch accurately. It has to be learnt - it doesn't come naturally as to someone who's sung in tune since they were very small.

It is perfectly possible to improve someone's singing accuracy - so I encourage anyone faced with a pupil (or friend for that matter) who cannot sing in tune to persevere in helping them to sort this out.

I start by working on notes that they can pitch and then gradually extending up and down the range. I use standard vocal warm-ups too to strengthen the voice and lots of listening and singing back. Basic tunes, easily remembered are good (even nursery rhymes) as the student can identify quickly whether they are right or wrong. This is not the time for a Grade VI repertoire song - that can come later!

Hope this helps.

This is all useful stuff... I'm supposed to be starting to teach a friend the flute soon, and her singing is... oh, just awful, really horrible (I often have to avoid sitting next to her in church because it's so unbelievably offputting and ends up making me sing out of tune). Her voice does rise and fall with the music to a certain extent, but not enough and not reliably - and the tone is pretty dreadful too, though I guess that's a seperate issue and probably related to the being told to shut up! So anyway I was dreading doing aural skills with her... but maybe we can work on it slowly, and hope that she isn't worried too much about doing exams just yet....

QUOTE (songflower @ May 5 2005, 03:14 PM)

This is something that has been puzzling me for quite some time...what do we mean when we say someone  is tone deaf?

People with pitching problems often refer to themselves as being "tone deaf". Tone deafness is extremely rare, but does exist. I'm told by someone who has met a person who is genuinely tone deaf that these people speak as if they were in fact deaf, without the normal speech inflections.

In some areas there are now "Can't sing choirs", to get people singing successfully when they are convinced they can't.

Most people who refer to themselves as "tone deaf" have normal voices and ears, but can't yet make the link between them properly. I call them "missing link singers". If someone tells you in normally inflected speech that they are tone deaf, you will be able to reassure them that they aren't!

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ May 5 2005, 11:23 PM)

I'm supposed to be starting to teach a friend the flute soon, and her singing is... oh, just awful, really horrible (I often have to avoid sitting next to her in church because it's so unbelievably offputting and ends up making me sing out of tune). Her voice does rise and fall with the music to a certain extent, but not enough and not reliably - and the tone is pretty dreadful too, though I guess that's a seperate issue and probably related to the being told to shut up! So anyway I was dreading doing aural skills with her... but maybe we can work on it slowly, and hope that she isn't worried too much about doing exams just yet....

Taking exams is voluntary, not compulsory. Let your friend enjoy a musical activity that she may turn out to be really good at, without worrying about whether she can do some other musical activity that may never give her any pleasure at all. We don't expect every musician to have an equal aptitude for every instrument, or to enjoy trying to play them all equally, and the voice is another instrument. The fact that it's part of you does make it rather unusual...

Oh yes, I'm not going to force her into exams... I still think aural skills and singing should be part of any instrumentalist's training. It's just a relief that it's quite possible that her singing can be vastly improved, so that she will be able to enjoy singing in church, will be able to do exams if she wants, and will add a new tool to her musical tool-cupboard, as it were. In my own musical education I've founding clapping and singing back tunes, and clapping and singing melodies before trying to play them on an instrument, can be really helpful. Helping her "find her voice" would not just be for exam purposes!

I find the most battle with singers who think they can not sing so don't put the effort in.
I once met a 17 year old boy who when talking to me sounded very monotone and dull, but i agreed to meet him and give him an audition, he singing was exactly like his speaking voive everything in one to not even moving up or down. Needless to say I sent him away, advising speech lessons before singing lessons.
I also have a 13 year old girl who sings songs she knows seemingly well until it comes to her upper range. In my analysis i find her voice has not reached the right area and use and exercise called speech-singing.

Using tay, tee, tah, toh, and too
I get the student to say it in their normal speaking voice,
then say it louder
then say it longer
and then sing it on a pitch at that level. (then gradually change the pitch that they aim for)

This encourages them to itentify that singing is not all that different to speaking it does not have to be a totally different voice. People tend to project their speech voice much more than their singing voice at first, as their singing voice relaxes back to their throat and they do not have control over the pitch there.

Another exercise can be to get them to say a word something they would shout like 'OI' or 'Hey' and then tell them to shout it higher or lower etc.

hope this helps anyone reading.

I used to be tone deaf within an octave. I couldn't sing a note even withing the correct 5th. So if a middle C was written on a score, I would usually sing the A above it. Then I started learning the clarinet and learned what the notes should sound like form there (well within a tone anyway). I think if you play the note and say that that is what the note shouls sound like, it makes it easier. Well it did for me anyway.