I was wondering if someone could explain the maximum number of of UCAS point you are allowed to claim. I understand that if I have grade 6 and 8 piano, I can only claim the points for Grade 8. However, if I have grade 7 in another instrument - viola - can I claim the points for this or can I still only claim for the grade 8?

i dont understand either!

if i have points for grade 8 saax, and grade 6 clarinet and piano

can i only get either just the grade 8 points, or the grade 8 and 1 grad e6

tis very confusing! And grade 8 distinction is worth more than an A at AS Level - woo!

Basically for grades 6-8 you can claim points for the highest grade you have passed for each instrument. For example: Nat can claim grade 8 sax, grade 6 clarinet, and grade 6 piano. But if she took grade 7, she could only claim for the grade 7 not the grade 6.

QUOTE (Subatomic_Star @ May 9 2005, 10:45 PM)

Nat can claim grade 8 sax, grade 6 clarinet, and grade 6 piano.

can i really? EXCELLENT!!!

Hyperthetically (sp?!) not that this is relevant to me. Does anyone know how many UCAS points the Dip (ABRSM) with distinction get you?

Grade 8 distinction is worth 70 so it should be more than that.

Maybe it should be - but according to my list, it's not actually worth anything. Maybe that's because a Diploma is seen as being of under graduate level, and therefore not expected or applicable at university entrance stage. A good Grade 8 should probably be the aim here.

Yes it's true the DipABRSM is at a level equivalent to the first year of a degree so it doesn't get UCAS points as it's a level higher than them. Anyone holding a dipABRSM and applying to university can, however, put it on their form as a qualification and I'm sure the university will hold it in higher esteem than grade 8. Many universities don't use UCAS points anyway: they're a lot more fussy about where they want to get the grades from (they'll say AAB with an A in the subject you're studying or AB and grade 8 clarinet or something (the second offer was a guess as I've never seen an offer for music...)).

QUOTE (Subatomic_Star @ May 9 2005, 09:45 PM)

Basically for grades 6-8 you can claim points for the highest grade you have passed for each instrument.

Are you sure its the highest grade for each instrument or the highest practical grade? I always thought it was the highest grade in one practical subject and one theory subject that was counted. I might be wrong. One of my students currently has 4 grade 8s - 270 points - she'll hardly need to do A levels if she can count all her grade 8s.

In my experience with my child who has just gone through the ropes, the UCAS points for ABRSM grades appear to be a complete irrelevancy. Sorry folks but that is the reality, the unis and music colleges have their own criteria and its A levels WOT COUNTS! What a shame after all the effort the ABRSM have gone through!

does trinity's performer's certificate count??

i think by the time i apply for ucas....which will be after this summer holiday....i will have 2 grade 8s and 1 grade 6.....

QUOTE (Silver pianist @ May 10 2005, 06:19 PM)

In my experience with my child who has just gone through the ropes, the UCAS points for ABRSM grades appear to be a complete irrelevancy. Sorry folks but that is the reality, the unis and music colleges have their own criteria and its A levels WOT COUNTS! What a shame after all the effort the ABRSM have gone through!

So true!! I only have one points offer, and I have to cash in all my AS points/A2 points before using my clarinet exam ones, and by then I don't need them!

I think it depends on the uni and the course... ie if you were applying to do a practical music course I suspect UCAS points gained from ABRSM grades would be more applicable, whereas if you want to do chemistry they probably don't care that you have grade 8 whatever if you don't have the science A Level grades you need too!

I assist with a large selection of UCAS applications every year, including my own children.

The AB points awarded for the UCAS system DO HELP. I emphasis HELP. If you have a conditional offer for say 300 points to take a Combined Degree and come in with your A levels results at say 260, then they cant argue with the extra points you get from you AB Grade points. Basically you have got what they asked for.

However if you are applying to take a Music degree at a University or Conservatoire it is a different ball game. One or two of the Conservatoires dont give a hoot about your 12 GCSEs and 5 A levels, they are looking at your music results all the way and your references and who your teacher is/was, and will make their offers based largely on your performance at audition. (One student I know got an E in A level music but got into a Conservatoire because her audition was breathtaking - she was given an unconditional offer!)

The Universities however look at both, but are aware that the Conservatoires have already 'creamed' off the best music students and try to have a more holistic approach and will look at your AB points alongside your A level results. So please dont dismiss the AB points. but I just dont want students to think these AB results are worthless. The Unis have agreed this with the Board and therefore they have to honor the points.

Ayshah, do you know if they count points for each practical exam above grade 6 or just the one? If someone has grade 6 cello, grade 7 singing and grade 8 piano would they allow points for all those grades or just the grade 8?

Does a distinction get you more points than a merit or pass? If so, would grade 6 distinction count more than grade 7 pass?

QUOTE (july @ May 11 2005, 05:12 PM)

Does a distinction get you more points than a merit or pass? If so, would grade 6 distinction count more than grade 7 pass?

UCAS points copied straight from the website:

QUOTE

Practical (instruments and singing) Grade 8 Distinction: 75 points, Merit: 70 points, Pass: 55 points Grade 7 Distinction: 60 points, Merit: 55 points, Pass: 40 points Grade 6 Distinction: 45 points, Merit: 40 points, Pass: 25 points Please note that Practical Musicianship exams do not qualify for UCAS Points. Theory Grade 8 Distinction: 30 points, Merit: 25 points, Pass: 20 points Grade 7 Distinction: 20 points, Merit: 15 points, Pass: 10 points Grade 6 Distinction: 15 points, Merit: 10 points, Pass: 5 points

hmmmm...i dont know where i saw it, but im convinced i saw that grade 8 distinction was now worth 120 points. Can anyone confirm/reject this?

QUOTE (sl123451 @ May 24 2005, 06:38 PM)

hmmmm...i dont know where i saw it, but im convinced i saw that grade 8 distinction was now worth 120 points. Can anyone confirm/reject this?

Not likely, that's like an A at AS!

QUOTE (elmo @ May 25 2005, 06:26 AM)

QUOTE (sl123451 @ May 24 2005, 06:38 PM) hmmmm...i dont know where i saw it, but im convinced i saw that grade 8 distinction was now worth 120 points. Can anyone confirm/reject this? Not likely, that's like an A at AS!

I thought it was an A for the full A level... I'm sure Grade 8 is worth more points than an A at AS.

I heard that distinction at grade 8 is worth half a music A-level??

Anyway - I have a different question. If I decide to apply to uni to do music this autumn, and I haven't done grade 8 but got a high distinction at grade 6 and would be doing grade 8 the following term, do you think they would consider me at all? Or does one have to have grade 8 at the time one is applying?

QUOTE (Ayshah @ May 11 2005, 06:02 AM)

I assist with a large selection of UCAS applications every year, including my own children. The AB points awarded for the UCAS system DO HELP. I emphasis HELP. If you have a conditional offer for say 300 points to take a Combined Degree and come in with your A levels results at say 260, then they cant argue with the extra points you get from you AB Grade points. Basically you have got what they asked for.

That was [/I]so[I] helpful Ayshah. Now I can tell my piano students studying for 'A' levels exactly how the points system is used.

Do you mind just confirming for me, please, that the AB points are not used in deciding an offer. They are used purely in calculating UCAS points at results time.

Thanks

Steve

QUOTE (july @ May 25 2005, 08:58 AM)

Anyway - I have a different question. If I decide to apply to uni to do music this autumn, and I haven't done grade 8 but got a high distinction at grade 6 and would be doing grade 8 the following term, do you think they would consider me at all? Or does one have to have grade 8 at the time one is applying?

Yes, they will. The significance of your playing standard to the unis depends on the nature of their course, so take advice and study each prospectus with care.

QUOTE (Ayshah @ May 11 2005, 06:02 AM)

I assist with a large selection of UCAS applications every year, including my own children. The AB points awarded for the UCAS system DO HELP.  I emphasis HELP.  If you have a conditional offer for say 300 points to take a Combined Degree and come in with your A levels results at say 260, then they cant argue with the extra points you get from you AB Grade points.  Basically you have got what they asked for.

This is indeed correct and I wouldn't dispute it but I think that it's worth remembering that Universities are well aware of this and are very careful to avoid giving offers that can be achieved in this way if they do not want them to be. For example they will most probably say '300 points from 3 A-levels (usually adding: excluding general studies)' and usually then even go on to say 'with at least an A in Biology' or something similar. You could not use AB exam points to get those 300 points as they have to come from A-levels.

If they do make the mistake of just saying 300 points (or do so intentionally) then yes the UCAS points will still help but admissions tutors are aware of the other ways of getting points and will word offers very carefully (probably with a standard wording) to avoid them if they don't want points from these sources. I think in practice if you want to study a subject unrelated to music at a good university (i.e. one that can afford to be picky about who it accepts) then UCAS points from AB exams won't be of help to you; but if you want to study music (maybe? Or maybe they just assume grade 8 as required and then give the offer on A-levels in some places, I don't know) or want to study anything somewhere looking for 'bums on seats' then you may be able to use them.

As for whether the points help at the point of actually getting the points for the offer (rather than getting an offer in the first place) I would suspect that is true (if the offer allows you to count them) unless the subject is music in which case I suspect they'd be quite reluctant to give you an offer (or an audition) without a practical exam as evidence that you can play.

About grade 8 distinction being worth half of an A-level: it isn't (although I'd go so far as to say it's harder than the A-levels I did!) but universities can choose to give you an offer that allows you to count it as the appropriate number of UCAS points it is given if they wish to; then again if a university really wants to they can just give you an unconditional offer! Sometimes they will accept (particularly if they're impressed with your playing or at music colleges, or you didn't have the opportunity to study A-level music) grade 8 practical and theory as a substitute for A-level music. There is, however, no official statement that it's equivalent, just that it's of the same standard as A-level but testing different material.

QUOTE (SteveHopwood @ May 25 2005, 10:45 AM)

QUOTE (july @ May 25 2005, 08:58 AM) Anyway - I have a different question. If I decide to apply to uni to do music this autumn, and I haven't done grade 8 but got a high distinction at grade 6 and would be doing grade 8 the following term, do you think they would consider me at all? Or does one have to have grade 8 at the time one is applying? Yes, they will. The significance of your playing standard to the unis depends on the nature of their course, so take advice and study each prospectus with care.

Good advice, one more thing to remember: you can always put it on your form in the future qualifications section (along with your A-levels, or whatever you do) and then they'll know that you're going to do it.

Charlotte, the only reason they want to know your grades is to have some idea of the kind of standard you are at. With a high distinction at grade 6, and doing grade 8 soon, it would definitely be worth applying... if universities ask for proof of "grade 8 standard" then maybe it would be worth having your teacher write a frank appraisal of your abilities and potential. It would also be worth as Steve said checking the prospectus is a very very good idea, as would be contacting individual unis or even departments to explain your position. I think music courses often want you to audition (depending on how good the uni is in that area) but obviously things may be different for effectively a "foreign student" - insofar as you are a little far away from the UK to be buzzing back and forth for too many auditions! But it would be worth contacting departments because firstly you will get from the horse's mouth what they are looking for, and secondly you may even establish some personal contact which can help when your application lands on their desk (assuming the department has at least a little say in admissions to music!)

QUOTE (july @ May 25 2005, 08:58 AM)

I heard that distinction at grade 8 is worth half a music A-level?? Or does one have to have grade 8 at the time one is applying?

No, you don't need to have grade 8 at the time of applying but they normally expect you to have passed it by the time you would start uni.

Sl12345 as far as I know, grade 8 distinction is worth 70 points. A level grade A = 120, B = 100, C = 80, D = 60, E = 40. AS grades are worth half.

Thank you for all your replies and advice, everyone! That makes me feel much more optimistic about my future!!!

QUOTE (noodle @ May 25 2005, 12:12 PM)

QUOTE (july @ May 25 2005, 08:58 AM) I heard that distinction at grade 8 is worth half a music A-level?? Or does one have to have grade 8 at the time one is applying? No, you don't need to have grade 8 at the time of applying but they normally expect you to have passed it by the time you would start uni.

.... and even then it's more to demonstrate that you are at that standard rather than to have the qualification, I think! I don't think you'll have a problem (if they don't all give you offers then I for one will think they're mad! )

Sl12345 as far as I know, grade 8 distinction is worth 70 points. A level grade A = 120, B = 100, C = 80, D = 60, E = 40. AS grades are worth half. [/QUOTE]

thanks noodle. So if hypothetically i got a grade 8 distinction (ill probably take it in or under a year, so ill be 14/15, would they still look so much on the importance of my a-level music? say if they gave a conditional offer that i got 120 points for the music a level, but i only got lets say 100 for the a level, but made the rest of the points up on the grade 8, would they look badly on that?

Also does anyone know how universities and music colleges look upon Diplomas?

QUOTE (sl123451 @ May 25 2005, 05:47 PM)

say if they gave a conditional offer that i got 120 points for the music a level, but i only got lets say 100 for the a level, but made the rest of the points up on the grade 8, would they look badly on that?

Depends on the uni, and the type of course... if the course was primarily practical, they'd probably be happy, but if it was a very academic course then they've expect a high grade in A Level. Either way, if they have specified an A at a level and you only get a B (100 points I think? or 80? I've lost track) then they are not obliged to take you however many grade 8s you have: some unis might, if you rang up, or if they especially liked you at interview, others would say "tough".

QUOTE (sl123451 @ May 25 2005, 05:47 PM)

thanks noodle. So if hypothetically i got a grade 8 distinction (ill probably take it in or under a year, so ill be 14/15, would they still look so much on the importance of my a-level music? say if they gave a conditional offer that i got 120 points for the music a level, but i only got lets say 100 for the a level, but made the rest of the points up on the grade 8, would they look badly on that? Also does anyone know how universities and music colleges look upon Diplomas?

Given that they already know and will have taken it into account when giving you the offer that you have grade 8; if they ask for an A in A-level music (or 120 points from that, although they'd always just say it as an A...) that's what they want and they won't allow you to substitute grade 8 for it. As Sarah rightly says though there's always the option of ringing up if you don't meet the offer and asking, sometimes they will let you in (depending how many others have got in) although if you want an even better back up to argue your case you could get grade 8 theory as well, that may help you.

As for how music colleges and universities look upon diplomas: they like them; but they don't expect them. I read on a music college website (RAM I think) that if you've reached DipABRSM high pass standard then it's worth applying for a scholarship as that's about how good you have to be to get one. Although the diplomas don't get UCAS points (they're above that level as they're degree-level qualifications) they are considered highly and more so than grades (simply because they're the next level), it's the qualifications underlying the points that matter really, not the points!

Off topic, but have the UCAS points awarded for A Levels changed? I thought you got 80 for a B, or that is how I remembered it... I know my offer was in points and I THOUGHT it was for 240 points, but I know it basically worked out as 3 Bs, as I had to get at least a B in English Lit and French... Maybe I have remembered wrong and the offer was 300 points... or maybe they changed it... I really don't know, and now I'm curious!!

A is 120 points

B is 100 points

etcetc

OK.... well in that case either it's changed or my memory is deserting me entirely in my dotage...

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ May 26 2005, 12:06 PM)

Off topic, but have the UCAS points awarded for A Levels changed? I thought you got 80 for a B, or that is how I remembered it... I know my offer was in points and I THOUGHT it was for 240 points, but I know it basically worked out as 3 Bs, as I had to get at least a B in English Lit and French... Maybe I have remembered wrong and the offer was 300 points... or maybe they changed it... I really don't know, and now I'm curious!!

Sarah: you're not going mad, when I did A-levels (which I think was after you, in 2000) the points system was different (it was before they brought in AS and A2). An A was worth 10 points, B 8, C 6, D 4 and E 2 (AS levels, which still did exist, were worth half the A-level points i.e. A = 5 etc.). So the number of points required was a lot lower then! I guess they probably upped the number of points per A-level so that they had more precision to add in other qualifications to get UCAS points from them too: on that system grade 8 practical distinction would have to have been given 6.25 points or something!

THANKS! That's it - so I guess my offer was 24 points - which sounds a great deal more familiar! Yes, I took my A Levels the summer of '97. Phew. I'm not going (totally) crazy then...