Hi!
I'd say I'm pretty lost. I'll be taking my grade 8 piano exam in 2 months but I have a major problem. What are the main things that I need to know for the aural section? I get really lost when my teacher comes to that. Apart from that, I guess I'm quite ok. I need help in these few aspects :-
1. identifying the lowest of the 3 parts. ( i just cant get it right!!! argh!!! )
2. cadence, cadence, cadence......... forget the perfect, imperfect, interupted or plagal part. I seriously need help for the 1, 1b, 1c, 11, etc section.... ( if anyone get what i mean )
So, please help me... I desperately need help!
Thanks.

Hey! I know exactly how you feel, I did my grade 8 piano at Easter and was dreading the aural eactly the same. Hate to say this, but practicing does help. Especially the 3 parts thing, just practice them over and over again, in my exam I think I got the first half right and made up the second half, as long as you have a good go at it they'll give you credit. The bit where you have to identify the chords...if you can, try listening to the bass as then you can work out in your head the possible chords it could be. Learn the popular chord progressions i.e Ic-V7-1 and listen to them and get used to how they sound. Finally, try not to get too worried about it, if you try your hardest then you've done the best you can. Good Luck! Let me know how you get on! Naomi xx

for cadences get hold of a hymn book.

dont worry i cant do any part of the aural tests...hehe

Get this tape - Sound Wise Aural Test Cassette Grade 8. I bought it from top note, not sure where else you can buy it from but its from the associated board. Theres instructions on the inside, and basically the tape has a woman talking you through all the tests. on the first side you do tests just as they would be in the exam, and then on the other side there are practices of each group. And you get a bit of time/pause the tape after each question before being given the answer. You can practice a little bit at a time, and it really helps!

The ABRSM do a good book with accompanying CD called Aural Training in Practice- you'd need the grade 6-8 one. I found it really helpful learning grades 7 and 8 aural.

I practised loads with my piano teacher for my grade 8 cello exam. I know it sounds silly, but I found the lower of three parts, easier than the lower of two parts, as the lowest part sounds more of a separate bass line, which I thought was easier to pick out. Practise listening to the difference between the different cadences, and for sevenths. For the modulations, I tried to hold on the tonic by humming it, so I could count up and work out the modulation at the end, although you have to be careful, as I sometimes concentrated so hard on this that I missed the obvious ones like relative minor.

I've found the lower of three parts easier than the lower of two for the very same reason. I'd be interested to know if everyone else finds this the case too- there must be a reason that the ABRSM have put the three parts in grade 8...

I've found that I can't do any part of the tests! As for the modulations...ha what a joke, i have no idea what it's modulated to

I used to have to resolutely hum the original tonic all the way through that test and then work out where the new key was in relation to it at the end, so there is hope, you just have to keep practising until you recognise the sounds of the different modulations!

Did you not say you had perfect pitch? If so why not just listen to the first tonic, think right that's a C and the piece ended in G so that's the dominant?!

There is no hope. I'm useless at hearing things and the my tonic would probably be about 7 different pitches!

You are quite right AnotherPianist, and that's what I tend to do now actually (but don't tell the examiner!) but I seemed to develop my perfect pitch somehow rather than being born with it. I hate to spark off that debate again, but...

It's alright for some isn'tit!! Well another load of guesses I think I'll try

Sorry to bring this to the debate again but I'm really interested to know: do you know when you developed your perfect pitch, even roughly?

I don't mean to but in, but 'Anotherpianist' and 'Cecilia', isn't wat u are describing exactly wat 'Cello86' was talking about?

Oh, and does the extract always end on the tonic of the key it has modulated to?

No, what we're talking about is hearing the notes and naming them by listening to them (without reference) i.e. if you hear a C Major chord you know that it's a C Major chord. Then there's a G Major chord and again you can recognise that in the same way. Only some (very, very few) people can do this. The orignial suggestion was to do it relatively, i.e. the music ended in a key a fifth higher than the one it started in.

I am having my Grade 8 piano next tuesday(shivers). For the A part, I guess I will try to get to the back of the left part of the piano(hopefully the examiner doesn't notice too much)I usually can't remember the melody so I am gonna count how many notes they are and sing the starting and the end right, while I make up the rest.lol. Most of the time I can tell the cadence. Then I start to think of the popular chord progressions(eg:iib Ic V I)and that vi's are quite rare...so on. Then I will try to match with the tonic(eg: sing from the tonic upwards)In the B, I will just try to get rhythm right.(I am very BAD at singing) In C, I won't bother what the heck the examiner plays, just listen to the tonic and the last chord and count upwards.Eg:If it starts with c maj, I will sing the C note queitly by myself until the last chord is played, u can usually tell whether is maj or min. So, it's already50%, then try to sing c, d ,e ,f, g, a, b...etc until u can match it.Lets say it's modulates to a min key. So, it is either relative or supertonic, so I sing C, D. Lets say D doen't match so I know it's relative min. For D, I just start with the style-->period, possible composer, texture, character, which hand plays melody and accompaniment. Then I start to talk about some imitations, sequence and repeats and I will talk about some other rubbish like staccato notes or legato notes, accents bla bla bla until I run out of ideas.lol

Wow, that's pretty amazing. Does that work for single notes too or just chords? And do the chords have to be played all at once or can they be played broken?

I find the best way to practice the echo tests is to listen to classical music you have never heard before, ideally a piano piece or a string quartet (not an orchestral piece). For sight singing there is only one way I find really effective, solfa singing. The hardest one for me was recognising chords 1-7 in any inversions, which just takes practise playing them on the piano and knowing how they sound within their respective keys. The test before establishes what type of cadence it is, so bear that in mind during this test.

Hope this is helpful.

Really it's the ability to recognise notes so yes it does work for single notes (I can't do it by the way...) but if you know what a note is and you hear three at once C, E and G then you know it's a C major chord (sometimes people just feel like it's a C Major chord as they're doing all that subconsciously or whatever and don't have to work it out).

The chords can be played all at once; although if they're not real chords, just random notes, then it gets harder as the number of notes increases (I've done an experiment with someone!): play five random notes all at once on the piano and only once and it does get quite tricky to name them all!

The skill is developed right? So anyone, effectively, can learn it?

Hey! I'm revising grade 8 theory super hard! I'll give you what I know and I can only hope it helps!

Cadences!

Perfect ~ 5 to 1, dominant 7 to 1. Listen for the Tonic!
It sounds as if the piece has ended.

Imperfect ~ 1 to 5, 2 to 5, four to 5, 1b to 5 and 1c to 5. Listen for the dominant. It sounds unfinished and about to go on.

1b - first inversion
1c - second inversion - the bass note does not change!


Interrupted ~ 5 to 6, dominant 7th to 6 Superdominant stuff!
You think it should be perfect but it has a minor chord.

Plagal ~ 4 to 1
This is the amen chord. Think hymns!

Modulations! A change of key!

Major key to:

1) Dominant - increases tension
2) Subdominant - decreases tension

3) Relative minor [minor third lower] - shares same key signature or sumin.
4) Supertonic minor [relatively rare]

Minor key to:

1) Dominant Major
2) Relative Major [third up!]

3) Dominant minor
4) Subdominant minor


Piece talk!

1) Loud/soft
2) Staccato/Legato
3) Minor/Major/Atonal[no tone]/modal [lots of notes next to eachother]
4) homophonic block chords/polyphonic melodies [ i think of ring tones ]
5) Contrapuntal? Note against note..think Bach!
6) "Thickening" of the music? Gets fuller?
7) Baroque[Bach]/Classical[Mozart]/Romantic[chopin]/Contemporary[Debussy or Bartok]

I'm still learning stuff at the mo. A little [extremely] shaky on everything! I know how evil grade 8 aural is and to the point of ridiculous. Even some piano teachers can't tell the differences so why the ###### should we! And as for singing - we're PIANISTS, not SINGERS. I personally think more emphasis should be on piece playing rather than an aural test which most piano teachers either skip out or do minimal work for. Also, the jumps for grades in aural are absurd!! grade 6 I didn't have to learn anything and passed fine in aural...grade 7 was throwing me into the deep end and grade 8 is me drowning at the bottom of it!


Leanne xXx

p.s. and I apparently have perfect pitch..if you play a note I can recognise it. However, I still find aural difficult! I can't sing low...only alto-soprano. Stupid..stupid!

Sorry, I missed this before: it's a matter of debate but most people seem to believe that you're either born with it or not. It's quite rare for people to have it, although there are some people on this forum who do, and even if it is possible to learn it it's incredibly rare I've never known anyone to learn it later in life although I'd like to believe that it's possible. That's why I was so interested when Cecilia said that her perfect pitch developed later: maybe she's the proof that it is possible....

LittleKorea- I know all that stuff but still cannot do it.....

Well - if you know the stuff relatively solidly, then doodling on the piano or whatever instrument..surely has to be the way? Just getting used to the sound of each cadence and modulation?

Atleast you know it ! [unlike some...-every finger points to me-]

Leanne xXx

I really find it hard to see how it can be difficult to detect modulations if you have perfect pitch and know a little theory: listen to the tonic chord played at the beginning and name the notes in your head (e.g. C, E, G) then listen to the chord at the end of the extract (I'm presuming it will finish on the tonic chord) and name the notes again (in the example if it's G, B, D a little theory can tell you that's the dominant). I don't have perfect pitch but it seems to me that it would trivialise that question surely: it's like being shown the music and asked the same question which most people would find ten times easier! People I know with perfect pitch can just 'feel' what key things are in anyway so don't even need to work it out....

People with perfect pitch are SOOOOOOOOOOOO LUCKY!!!!!!!
If they know how to control it, they can get the cadence, ALL the CHORDS and modulations right!!!!




*warning*=another one of my rants

People who are trained with their perfect pitch do find cadences, modulations and such very easy. I can recognise the dominant - no problem. My weakness probably lies in my theory and since I have done so little aural in the past - it's all a bit of a bombshell. Also, for me, I tend to find sometimes the ''feel'' of the music clashes with what my ear tells me.

I suppose a little training is required if you have good perfect or relative pitch, do you agree? This may seem pathetic [sheepish smile]..but I also sometimes have trouble recognising the first chord in the music. The first triad is it? I just don't know which one it is! Put it this way, in my theory grade 5 - I got just on the pass mark! I did little to no preparation. I didn't deserve to pass.

I've also been playing piano for a relatively short time - for around 5 and a half years. I literally know next to nothing about background. The bare basics are for me!

And tzl_tzl! I'm sure you have a really good relative pitch which can get you all your cadences, chords and modulations right!

I used to think perfect pitch was such a useless skill....especially since we didn't do aural....

Leanne xXx

What do you mean can't recognise it, as in can't name the chord as C Major or whatever? I guess perfect pitch isn't too useful without some theory knowledge, but I can tell you that it's a heck of a lot quicker and easier to learn the theory knowledge than to have to do this stuff without perfect pitch!

You can train pitch sense to a certain extent - I had always got relative pitch - where you can tell the key of a piece - as certain keys seem to sound brighter or more mellow - e.g. the flat keys sound more mellow and rich, the sharp keys seem to sound brighter. Don't ask me how! Needless to say, on the piano, despite it being equally tuned there is definitely a difference of some sort, subtle though it is.
But there's something else you can develop - being able to sing ANY given note without reference to an instrument. If you own a piano, EVERY time you walk past try to sing an A (the tuning A above middle C) then check it out. Apparently you can start to hear it.
With me, mine developed from playing the flute as a second instrument - my flute teacher always used to play A then a descending A minor triad - A-F-D- whenever we tuned, so in my head even now I can always find A but to double check it I sing the triad. It has a certain sound that no other triad has - maybe it's just in my trained memory; I don't understand pyschology and how memory works properly, but this is where I think I got my perfect pitch from.
It caused a lot of problems at school when I had to sight-sing, and the class teacher transposed the key down for students who couldn't sing so high as I could hear the exact pitches of the notes!

Erm... looks like D minor to me