I'm a newbie, so not sure where to post this. I've just posted in the ABRSM Students forum also, so forgive the duplication.
I'm hoping someone can advise me.
I am taking Singing Grade 4 soon, but am having trouble with the sight singing. I have gradually taught myself to sight sing quite a lot of material in a major key, using a system I read about. It's a bit like solfa, but you use numbers (in your head) instead of do re mi..., and gradually learn to associate the number position in the scale with the right sound.
My question is about minor keys. I'm trying to use the same sort of system, but am not sure whether to think of the minor scale as being:
1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7b ... or
6 7 1 2 3 4 5 ...
Or the equivalent question in solfa is: do you treat minor keys as starting on do (with some notes flattened) or on la?
I hope this makes some sense.
Thanks for any help.
Full Version: Sight Singing Minor Keys
Yes, it makes sense and it's a good question.
Unfortunately I can't remember what the concensus is on this among solfa experts.
There was a discussion along similar lines on the forums not so long ago.
You could try a search on some of the key-words (sorry, no pun intended)
it might be worth including the words Kodaly and modes as I think those topics featured in the discussion.
I hope this helps.
Maggie
Unfortunately I can't remember what the concensus is on this among solfa experts.
There was a discussion along similar lines on the forums not so long ago.
You could try a search on some of the key-words (sorry, no pun intended)
it might be worth including the words Kodaly and modes as I think those topics featured in the discussion.
I hope this helps.
Maggie
I have very limited knowledge of Kodaly but in this method the minor key starts on la I'm sure.
Jane
Jane
I thought that there were other names for the black notes like 'fi' or something, maybe these are only for accidentals though. I'm sure someone will be able to tell you soon though.
The best answer is certainly to use 67123456, or ltdrmfsl in sol-fa.
Here's my worksheet on the topic:
SIGHT-SINGING USING NUMBERS
For learning or improving sight-singing, using numbers (from 1 to 7) for the notes of the major scale (see below regarding music in minor keys) rather than just trying to read the notes (F#, D, G etc.), is one of the few ways to make real progress, and make sense of the music. Another main method is to add the new names of “do re mi fa so la ti†from Tonic Sol-fa or the Kodaly method for the seven notes. However, using the numbers relates more to other aspects of music theory (such as chords, position of semitones in scales, degees of the scale) that are learnt in music theory.
Tonic Sol-fa is not to be confused with “fixed doh†systems which just rename notes C, D, E etc as “do, re, meâ€. Tonic Sol-fa is a “movable doh†system where “do†(doh) becomes whichever note is the start of the major scale, that is, position number 1. Fixed doh systems don’t help sight-singing really.
By whatever method, learning the major (and minor) scale as the basis for sight-singing is amazingly valuable and important – providing the key to an otherwise very difficult exercise – the dots on the page or the letter names of the notes simply do not show the distances between the notes as readily, due to the black notes (sharps / flats) being unevenly placed, with none between E & F and B & C. A very large proportion of music is written using these two related scales, and the numbers can be used even when it isn’t in one of these scales. Learning the character of each note of the major (and minor) scales is invaluable, and this is one aspect which Tonic Sol-fa promotes quite easily, despite its otherwise long learning curve. However, with Tonic Sol-fa, one needs to learn the order of the note names (and what is 3 notes up etc.), whereas with numbers, this is very easy.
"1 to 7" is the same as the major scale, and this is used to sing all music.
There is only a half-gap (semitone) between 3-4 and between 7-1. You can see this on a piano by playing a scale of C major, which is all the white notes. Notice there is no black note between E-F and between B-C. [A half-gap is actually called a semitone, and two half-gaps is actually called a tone. A semitone is the distance up or down to the very next note, whether it is white or black.]
Even though you will not need them at first, here are all the notes of the chromatic scale (a scale going up a semitone every time, so every possible note). Notice no # or b between 3-4 and 7-1:
1 #1 2 #2 3 4 #4 5 #5 6 #6 7 1 [say “one, sharp two, two†etc.]
(Tonic Sol-fa: DO di RE ri MI FA fi SO si LA li TI DO – di/ri etc. rhyme with “ti†like “teaâ€)
or using flats:................(Tonic Sol-fa: see http://www.kodaly.org.au/Teaching/solfa.htm )
1 b2 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 b6 6 b7 7 1 [say “one, flat two, twoâ€, etc.]
(Tonic Sol-fa: DO ra RE ma MI FA sa SO lo LA ta TI DO – ra/ma etc. rhyme with “fa†like “farâ€)
(but some use: Do raw RE maw MI FA saw SO law LA taw TI DO – or a mixture with “raâ€, “lo†etc.)
# (sharp) or b (flat) is in practice only used when found written as an extra sharp or flat in the music on the page (called an accidental) – you don’t need to do anything about the sharps and flats in the key signature at the start of each line, except for working out which note is 1 (see below). This is because notes 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 include these key signature sharps and flats already (as they are included in the major scale, which is what numbers 1 to 7 actually are).
Notice that there are usually at most just two syllables to sing: the prefix ( # or b ) and the number, as the numbers and the words “sharp†and “flat†all have just one syllable, except “7†(which has two).
Imagine the numbers in a ladder, going in an infinite line in front of you, climbing from 1 up to 7, then again above from 1 up to 7 etc. Notice that when you go down from 1, the next number is 7, then 6.
When singing, why not "point out" the notes with your hand (as if conducting), up and down the ladder of their positions.
For the minor scale, as in Tonic Sol-fa, the first note of the relative major is still called 1, so the minor scale starts on 6 (called the “lah-minor†aspect of Tonic Sol-fa, as “lah†(la) = 6). This gives:
Harmonic minor scale =
6 7 1 2 3 4 #5 6 #5 4 3 2 1 7 6 [Related minor and major keys are
Melodic minor scale = always found at the distance 6 to 1, like
6 7 1 2 3 #4 #5 6 5 4 3 2 1 7 6 A minor and C major, go 3 semitones.]
To find 1 for any piece of music, learn and use these rules:
- in sharp key signatures, the last sharp (at the right hand end of the key signature) is on the note to use as 7, so go up one semitone to find the note to use as 1. Unless there are six or seven sharps, that’s just the next note name up - so if the last sharp is C#, your note 1 is D.
- in flat key signatures, the last flat is on the note to use as 4. Also, there is an easier option if there is more than one flat: the flat before last [the “penultimate†flat] is the note to use as 1.)
- if there is no key signature, then you’re in C major (or A minor), so use C as 1.
One aspect that you need to be sure to focus on, is that each note number has a character as well as a position. For example when a piece is in the major:
1 is at home, and 7 leads up to 1 (it is called the “leading note†in music theory).
5 is an important note (it is called the “dominant†in music theory) and together with 3 and 1, makes up the major chord.
2 and 4 are “between†sort of notes, and can be harder to find at first.
The minor chord is 6, 1 and 3, and the note 6 can have a sadder “minor†feel.
Write down the note numbers of some simple tunes and sing them over and over until the position of each number starts to become familiar. This will help you to get used to the notes of the scale. I have some available on a separate sheet.
Also, try just singing around some notes while singing their numbers, to get to know the number positions even better. Start with easy ones! Don’t forget, the gaps between adjacent note numbers are always the same, except 3-4 and 7-1 which are the semitones (half-gaps).
Then try reading some simple music, singing the numbers as you read the music.
The best book I know of which takes you through from simple exercises to gradually harder ones, with full instructions and references to numbers as well as other systems, is:
“Improve Your Sight-singing!†by Paul Harris & Mike Brewer, published by Faber Music. There is an Elementary level book, then an Intermediate level book, all published for “High/Medium voice†( for sopranos or tenors), or “Low/Medium voice treble clef†(for altos), or “Low/Medium voice bass clef†(for basses). These are available from music shops, or online from www.fabermusic.com
SIGHT-SINGING – MORE ADVANCED STAGES
When the music modulates to a new key, you’ll need to change to a different note as 1.
Then there is the final stage, at which one knows the intervals (the gaps between notes) so well (both in the notation and in one's ear) that one switches to using these most of the time for sight-singing. This is basically a more comprehensive version of what is used in the sight-singing numbers, as in effect every note becomes 1 in order to find the next note – and it’s quick and automatic when you know the look of the intervals AND the sound of them REALLY well.
Here's my worksheet on the topic:
SIGHT-SINGING USING NUMBERS
For learning or improving sight-singing, using numbers (from 1 to 7) for the notes of the major scale (see below regarding music in minor keys) rather than just trying to read the notes (F#, D, G etc.), is one of the few ways to make real progress, and make sense of the music. Another main method is to add the new names of “do re mi fa so la ti†from Tonic Sol-fa or the Kodaly method for the seven notes. However, using the numbers relates more to other aspects of music theory (such as chords, position of semitones in scales, degees of the scale) that are learnt in music theory.
Tonic Sol-fa is not to be confused with “fixed doh†systems which just rename notes C, D, E etc as “do, re, meâ€. Tonic Sol-fa is a “movable doh†system where “do†(doh) becomes whichever note is the start of the major scale, that is, position number 1. Fixed doh systems don’t help sight-singing really.
By whatever method, learning the major (and minor) scale as the basis for sight-singing is amazingly valuable and important – providing the key to an otherwise very difficult exercise – the dots on the page or the letter names of the notes simply do not show the distances between the notes as readily, due to the black notes (sharps / flats) being unevenly placed, with none between E & F and B & C. A very large proportion of music is written using these two related scales, and the numbers can be used even when it isn’t in one of these scales. Learning the character of each note of the major (and minor) scales is invaluable, and this is one aspect which Tonic Sol-fa promotes quite easily, despite its otherwise long learning curve. However, with Tonic Sol-fa, one needs to learn the order of the note names (and what is 3 notes up etc.), whereas with numbers, this is very easy.
"1 to 7" is the same as the major scale, and this is used to sing all music.
There is only a half-gap (semitone) between 3-4 and between 7-1. You can see this on a piano by playing a scale of C major, which is all the white notes. Notice there is no black note between E-F and between B-C. [A half-gap is actually called a semitone, and two half-gaps is actually called a tone. A semitone is the distance up or down to the very next note, whether it is white or black.]
Even though you will not need them at first, here are all the notes of the chromatic scale (a scale going up a semitone every time, so every possible note). Notice no # or b between 3-4 and 7-1:
1 #1 2 #2 3 4 #4 5 #5 6 #6 7 1 [say “one, sharp two, two†etc.]
(Tonic Sol-fa: DO di RE ri MI FA fi SO si LA li TI DO – di/ri etc. rhyme with “ti†like “teaâ€)
or using flats:................(Tonic Sol-fa: see http://www.kodaly.org.au/Teaching/solfa.htm )
1 b2 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 b6 6 b7 7 1 [say “one, flat two, twoâ€, etc.]
(Tonic Sol-fa: DO ra RE ma MI FA sa SO lo LA ta TI DO – ra/ma etc. rhyme with “fa†like “farâ€)
(but some use: Do raw RE maw MI FA saw SO law LA taw TI DO – or a mixture with “raâ€, “lo†etc.)
# (sharp) or b (flat) is in practice only used when found written as an extra sharp or flat in the music on the page (called an accidental) – you don’t need to do anything about the sharps and flats in the key signature at the start of each line, except for working out which note is 1 (see below). This is because notes 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 include these key signature sharps and flats already (as they are included in the major scale, which is what numbers 1 to 7 actually are).
Notice that there are usually at most just two syllables to sing: the prefix ( # or b ) and the number, as the numbers and the words “sharp†and “flat†all have just one syllable, except “7†(which has two).
Imagine the numbers in a ladder, going in an infinite line in front of you, climbing from 1 up to 7, then again above from 1 up to 7 etc. Notice that when you go down from 1, the next number is 7, then 6.
When singing, why not "point out" the notes with your hand (as if conducting), up and down the ladder of their positions.
For the minor scale, as in Tonic Sol-fa, the first note of the relative major is still called 1, so the minor scale starts on 6 (called the “lah-minor†aspect of Tonic Sol-fa, as “lah†(la) = 6). This gives:
Harmonic minor scale =
6 7 1 2 3 4 #5 6 #5 4 3 2 1 7 6 [Related minor and major keys are
Melodic minor scale = always found at the distance 6 to 1, like
6 7 1 2 3 #4 #5 6 5 4 3 2 1 7 6 A minor and C major, go 3 semitones.]
To find 1 for any piece of music, learn and use these rules:
- in sharp key signatures, the last sharp (at the right hand end of the key signature) is on the note to use as 7, so go up one semitone to find the note to use as 1. Unless there are six or seven sharps, that’s just the next note name up - so if the last sharp is C#, your note 1 is D.
- in flat key signatures, the last flat is on the note to use as 4. Also, there is an easier option if there is more than one flat: the flat before last [the “penultimate†flat] is the note to use as 1.)
- if there is no key signature, then you’re in C major (or A minor), so use C as 1.
One aspect that you need to be sure to focus on, is that each note number has a character as well as a position. For example when a piece is in the major:
1 is at home, and 7 leads up to 1 (it is called the “leading note†in music theory).
5 is an important note (it is called the “dominant†in music theory) and together with 3 and 1, makes up the major chord.
2 and 4 are “between†sort of notes, and can be harder to find at first.
The minor chord is 6, 1 and 3, and the note 6 can have a sadder “minor†feel.
Write down the note numbers of some simple tunes and sing them over and over until the position of each number starts to become familiar. This will help you to get used to the notes of the scale. I have some available on a separate sheet.
Also, try just singing around some notes while singing their numbers, to get to know the number positions even better. Start with easy ones! Don’t forget, the gaps between adjacent note numbers are always the same, except 3-4 and 7-1 which are the semitones (half-gaps).
Then try reading some simple music, singing the numbers as you read the music.
The best book I know of which takes you through from simple exercises to gradually harder ones, with full instructions and references to numbers as well as other systems, is:
“Improve Your Sight-singing!†by Paul Harris & Mike Brewer, published by Faber Music. There is an Elementary level book, then an Intermediate level book, all published for “High/Medium voice†( for sopranos or tenors), or “Low/Medium voice treble clef†(for altos), or “Low/Medium voice bass clef†(for basses). These are available from music shops, or online from www.fabermusic.com
SIGHT-SINGING – MORE ADVANCED STAGES
When the music modulates to a new key, you’ll need to change to a different note as 1.
Then there is the final stage, at which one knows the intervals (the gaps between notes) so well (both in the notation and in one's ear) that one switches to using these most of the time for sight-singing. This is basically a more comprehensive version of what is used in the sight-singing numbers, as in effect every note becomes 1 in order to find the next note – and it’s quick and automatic when you know the look of the intervals AND the sound of them REALLY well.
Yes, just to reiterate what has been said previously - in solfa the minor scales are:
l, t, d r m f s l (natural minor)
l, t, d r m f si l (harmonic minor)
l, t, d r m fi si l / s f m r d t, l, (melodic minor)
Which part of the country are you in, noon? I heartily recommend that you get yourself some Kodaly training as this will help you enormously, both with sight-singing and with general musicianship.
l, t, d r m f s l (natural minor)
l, t, d r m f si l (harmonic minor)
l, t, d r m fi si l / s f m r d t, l, (melodic minor)
Which part of the country are you in, noon? I heartily recommend that you get yourself some Kodaly training as this will help you enormously, both with sight-singing and with general musicianship.
Think I'll have to change my tag to "midnight"! Seems to be my only chance to get on line.
Thanks for the incredibly helpful replies. Using 67123456 for minor keys does make an awful lot of sense. It's not what my book recommends, but ironically I have been finding that I sight sing tunes that are in a minor key better if I don't realise they are in a minor key! So in effect I have already been most successful using 67123456! The book really was great for major keys, but I feel rather ran out of steam on minor keys and accidentals.
For the moment (for my Grade 4) I'm going to have to stick to numbers. But in the longer term I think I might be better getting stuck into solfa. I know nothing about Kodaly. How can I find out more, Cyrilla? I live in High Wycombe in Bucks. Can I get some lessons? Or I am very happy to teach myself if I can get hold of suitable materials.
Cheers
noon
Thanks for the incredibly helpful replies. Using 67123456 for minor keys does make an awful lot of sense. It's not what my book recommends, but ironically I have been finding that I sight sing tunes that are in a minor key better if I don't realise they are in a minor key! So in effect I have already been most successful using 67123456! The book really was great for major keys, but I feel rather ran out of steam on minor keys and accidentals.
For the moment (for my Grade 4) I'm going to have to stick to numbers. But in the longer term I think I might be better getting stuck into solfa. I know nothing about Kodaly. How can I find out more, Cyrilla? I live in High Wycombe in Bucks. Can I get some lessons? Or I am very happy to teach myself if I can get hold of suitable materials.
Cheers
noon
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