ive looked at the jazz syllabus for piano and for the scale requirements it says things like dorian on c and mixolydian on f, what on earth do these mean!!!!!

Nat

Oh dear god... you obviously didn't even copy the right thing down - the dorian is on D, and always is on D, because a Dorian is a white note only scale starting on D!

Read a theory book and it'll explain them all - these are called 'modes'

In the key of C, play a scale starting and ending on D and it's the Dorian mode.

E, it's the Phrygian mode.

F, it's the Lydian mode

G, it's the mixolydian mode (dominant)

A, it's the Aeolian mode (natural minor)

B, it's the Locrian mode

C is called the Ionian mode.

Some of these are really useful in jazz, especially Dorian, Mixolydian, Locrian. They're fun.

The Locrian mode however is just there for the sake of filling things out! There are no pieces which actually use it.


There's another sets of modes too - you stick something on the beginning of the names and it moves the tonic but not the dominant, or something like that!

You said: "The Locrian mode however is just there for the sake of filling things out! There are no pieces which actually use it."

What do you mean? Check this out:

http://raider.muc.edu/~peroneje/jazzmaterialsmodes.htm

The Locrian mode exists of itself and can be used whenever the improviser thinks they can use it. It's a lovely mode, has an air of mystery to it and is often heard in jazz fusion.

Nina

I can't give you a link, but read the Associated Board's information on modes.

Sorry, just searched the site but can't find anything specific on the modes. Some great stuff about jazz there, though.

Not the site, their publications - hence why I can't give you a link!

Well, all I can say to that is that I've found several jazz sites extolling the virtues of the Locrian mode! The AB will have to beg to differ....

QUOTE (DavidMusic @ Mar 21 2004, 11:59 PM)

Oh dear god... you obviously didn't even copy the right thing down - the dorian is on D, and always is on D, because a Dorian is a white note only scale starting on D!

Im still completely confused!! but in my jazz syallbus it actually says for grade 4 piano "scales in similar motion with hands together an octave apart, and with each hand separately in the following forms: Dorian on E and C; Mixolydian on A and F; Lydian on G and Eb;D and Bb majors"

Please correct me if im wrong coz i really just dont get it!! but if I was asked to play Dorian on C, would I play the scale in the key of Cmajor but starting on D?!!!

Nat

sorry for being so thick lol!!!!

Hi Natalie, all 12 keys have seven modes in the way Violina explained it.

The locrian as i see it serves a very important function in jazz, it is used harmonically speaking as a secondary dominant to move into major mediant key. It sounds very nice for example CMaj7, FMaj7,Bmin7b5, E7,Amaj7.

QUOTE

Please correct me if im wrong coz i really just dont get it!! but if I was asked to play Dorian on C, would I play the scale in the key of Cmajor but starting on D?!!!

If you were playing Dorian On C you would play C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb and C. As C Dorian is the second mode of Bb Major. Bb major being the Ionian. As i mentioned in my previous post all 12 diatonic keys have 7 modes.

The modes can be used in each and every key. They are a series of intervals. So the Ionian mode is the diatonic scale starting and finishing on the tonic, the dorian mode the diatonic scale starting and finishing on the second note, the phyrigian starts on the third note, the lydian on the fourth, mixolydian on the fifth, aeolian on the sixth and locrian on the seventh.

That way, the intervals between the notes of each mode are always the same, i.e:

Ionian: root-tone-tone-semitone-tone-tone-tone-semitone
Dorian: root-tone-semitone-tone-tone-tone-semitone-tone
Phrygian: root-semitone-tone-tone-tone-semitone-tone-tone
Lydian: root-tone-tone-tone-semitone-tone-tone-semitone
Mixolydian: root-tone-tone-semitone-tone-tone-semitone-tone
Aeolian: root-tone-semitone-tone-tone-semitone-tone-tone
Locrian: root-semitone-tone-tone-semitone-tone-tone-tone

The modes always sound the same no matter what key they're in, ie the intervals are always the same.

David was misleading when he said:

"the dorian is on D, and always is on D, because a Dorian is a white note only scale starting on D!"

No it isn't!!! The dorian scale is a series of intervals, and it can start on any note.

For my son's Guildhall board jazz sax exam he has to play the F dorian scale and it starts on F. The intervals are as above for the dorian scale.

All you have to ascertain is:

By dorian on E do they mean starting on E (with a D key signature) or starting on F# (with an E key signature)?

My instinct tells me they mean (by dorian on E) play that scale starting on E, (with a D key signature) and so on. But you'd better phone the AB, ask for their jazz department and check it out to make sure.

Hope this has helped and not plunged you into further confusion! And at least I hope you understand that the modes are a series of intervals, each one different to the diatonic scale but starting and finishing on a different note of the diatonic scale.

Just read Tenor Clef's post and he's explained it perfectly. You needn't phone the AB and I'm sure he's right - the Dorian on C is as he says: C D Eb F G A Bb C.

The best thing you can do to really aid your understanding is to keep playing all the modes in one key till you get the feel for their shape. Then play them in another key and you'll begin to recognise the shapes.

The Dorian is a cool-sounding minor scale
The Phrygian sounds a bit Middle Eastern
The Lydian sounds a bit folky, well sort of.
The Mixolydian is the same as the dominant 7 scale
The Aeolian is a medieval-sounding minor scale
The Locrian sounds edgy/Middle Eastern/exciting

Or you could play them all and make up your own characters for them. But the dorian and aeolian will always be minor scales and the mixolydian is definitely the dominant 7 scale!

Thanks tenorclef and violinia!!

I understand it a lot more now!!!!

Nat

Glad to have been able to help and good luck with it all!