11 year old daughter plays recorders of all sorts (Grade 7), piano (grade 5), flute (grade 5), violin (grade 3).

She wants to drop violin and recorder...and wants to start another insturment.

Any thoughts?

Is it a case of "the grass is greener....."?

When she gets to be an adult, there will be many more opportunities for taking part in social music-making as a recorder player than with an orchestral instrument (although it's the other way round in most schools), so I'd certainly encourage her to keep on with the recorder if I was in your position.

I wouldn't entirely agree with that. There are lots of music societies around with members who get together regularly for social music making. However, if you want a specific position within an orchestra, then yes, a woodwind instrument has a slight disadvantage. Extra string players are always useful, but with woodwind there are perhaps only two permanent seats for each instrument.

Having said that, the oboe and the bassoon are on the 'endangered species' list. The French horn is an instrument that can blend well with brass or woodwind. She will need quite large hands for the bassoon, unless you opt for the short-reach instrument which is specially designed for players with small hands. Bear in mind the bassoon and oboe are expensive to purchase - even a student instrument - and that none of these instruments are easy to play well. This may even be a contributory factor as to why they are not so popular. People want instant results and instant success - a reflection of the growing laziness in society perhaps?

Maybe it would be better to try out another instrument for a while. Hire one for a few months and test the water so to speak, before she gives up any of the instruments she already plays.

If you can afford the tuition that goes with it then why not?

I can share my similiar experience with you. My youngest currently plays Piano G6, Saxophone G4, Clarinet G5, Violin G5, Viola G6 and several recorders to G7 standard. There was one rule; she had chosen the violin as her first instrument (even before the recorder) and was not allowed to drop it whilst she tried out others. It is quite clear that the Piano and Saxophone are currently joint 'first' and favorite instruments, but the string instruments have allowed her to participate immediately in the Senior Orchestra at Secondary school. The Clarinet was in the house and she taught herself this whilst waiting for a Saxophone, which in turn she used to get into a croaky Jazz band whilst waiting for a piano Jazz teacher. But she had to stick to that string instrument. The treble recorder, is a social instrument she takes to camp every year. The result, her sight reading and transposing skills are excellent. She did once say she would like to try the trumpet, (which her brother played) but we do have a house policy - rightly or wrongly - of the children doing different instruments so that there was no competitiveness, the only common instrument being the piano, but none of the others went past G5 on the piano.

Let her choose, but also consider the orchestras/bands that she can subsequently particpate in with her chosen instrument.

Have you or has she considered the sorts of music and ensemble to which various instruments give access? It's easiest to consider the principal ensembles and which of your choices plays in them.

Symphony orchestra: violin (more than twice as many as anything else), flute, oboe, bassoon, horn, piano very rarely (unless you are a concerto soloist): plays large repertoire of familiar works from 18th C onward.

String orchestra: violin: small repertoire of generally high calibre works from 17th C. onward.

Wind band: flute, oboe, bassoon, horn: large repertoire in varied styles, not all of high quality, mostly 20th C.

String quartet (trio, quintet etc.): violin: the ultimate musical experience (IMO), for which many of the greatest composers have made some of their greatest efforts.

Wind quintet (the standard small chamber group for wind players): flute, oboe, bassoon, horn: substantial repertoire, mostly of lighter works, from c.1800 onward.

Chamber music with piano (duo sonatas, trios, quartets, quintets etc. with a large variety of other instruments, strings, wind, mixed and some brass): piano, each of the others in some part of the repertoire: a large repertoire in total, though some combinations have only one or two works, dating from the mid-18th C. Many of the best works require diploma standard technique and musicianship from the pianist.

Jazz ensembles and big bands: all of your choices could be used in jazz, though I have never heard a jazz recorder player, but the two that appear most often are violin and flute:

The recorder is the instrument of choice for many amateur musicians interested in earlier music (c.1500 to 1750), but also has a good 20th C. repertoire. The violin also gives access to most of the earlier period, as do early versions of flute, oboe and bassoon.

If you analyse the above, you will see that your new choices give access to much of the same music as the flute does, so if your daughter takes up one of them, the flute is the logical instrument to give up. Also, both oboe and horn are likely to have detrimental effects on a flute embouchure. However, I have known several flautists who took up bassoon, mainly because competition among flautists to join amateur ensembles is so intense, and maintained their flute playing skills. Your daughter's achievement on recorder is such that she can cease lessons on it now and return to it later if she wants to play the sort of music for which it is appropriate. For access to orchestral playing, Grade 3 violin is a far more useful qualification than Grade 5 flute, though her temperament (is she a natural soloist?) may influence her enjoyment of the orchestra.

"The right instrument for your child", by Atarah Ben-Tovim and Douglas Boyd (victor Gollancz 1985), discusses the intellectual, temperamental and physical demands of the various instruments.

At the risk of sounding like a tyrant, I'd just say no.

Liz

I kinda agree, why lose 2 skills to make 1 - y be a jack of all trades but master of none? tell her to focus on wat shes got... and wow! grade 7 recorder!!!!

I agree. Stick to one or two instruments and excel at them. I didn't start playing different instruments until I was competent on my initial two instruments and was also much older - aged 21. I know a girl that has done Grade 8 on clarinet and sax and is doing it on flute and piano this session. She is 17, has failed numerous exams on the way and really is not a good player on any instrument.

On the 'endangered instrument' thing, while it may be true that oboe, bassoon and horn are all officially endangered, as an oboist, I still find it quite a struggle to find a free orchestra place. Bassoonists and horn players have an advantage there, definitely. If you were going to pick one on that basis, I'd say horn - as orchestra pieces often need 4 horns, and only occasionally more than 2 bassoons or oboes.

To be perfectly honest, I would just say no. There comes a point where extremem musial talent just turns into a spoilt brat. There is a very fine line, and I hate it when I see people cross it; like I hate it when I see people corss the "I play music for enjoyment/I play music to say I'm great" line

Instead of allowing her to play a different instrument, why not encourage your daughter to join some groups on her present instruments and to socialise with people her own age? If she has fun and meets new people and like-instrument players, she might re-gain some enthuaism (sp?) for recorder and violin.

At her standard, if there are any baroque groups at your local saturday morning music service, she'll be in demand, which will encourage her to stick with it etc.

just my humble opinion though.

hornplayer xx

I'm going to be controversial here and say that perhaps she should be allowed; you have to be careful though to judge whether it's just a short phase she's going through or if she actually does genuinely want to swap. If she already plays the recorder to a high standard then that would be ideal for starting another woodwind instrument (I've heard this although I am only a pianist so am not certain...) although she does already have the flute. It might be interesting to look at some of those more rare instruments that people are so often told one can't start before aged 11: something like french horn, oboe or bassoon (although you'll have to be feeling rich!). It does depend though on whether you think she's loosing something by giving up her only stringed instrument; of course she could swap that for another one, but that wouldn't give her the same opportunity to make use of her recorder skills. I think that, so long as she's willing to stick with what she changes to she'll be better off as she only has to play three instruments then (as she's swapping two for one) rather than four so can concentrate much better on each one.

For what it's worth, I was similarly eclectic when I was a kid (although a bit older than yours) - piano, flute, recorder and violin when I was about 13/14. I gave up violin and recorder (and the flute metamorphosed into oboe), and regret that now, faced with the near impossibility of getting orchestral playing even as a pretty good amateur oboist. If I was a half-decent violinist it would be a zillion times easier.

Having said that, you can always go back to things when you're older, I suppose...

You should learn wathever you like, so ask her that what is the instrument that she loves the most. Don't give her suggestions, let her listen to the sound of the instrument, NEVER LET HER TO SAW THOSE PERFORMERS PLAYS THE INSTRUMENT! Becoz, if she likes the instrument but she saw that it was hard to learn, then she will give up. Everyone ad the right to choose GIVE UP, so don't worry, and it's not about MASTERING a instrument, and your daughter even get a great grade! Its very for her now. I learn my first instrument PIANO, and get a distinction in grade one, I know it's easy, but It's a feel that you've DONE IT! So let her to choose her own path. IT IS IMPORTANT. And I qiut playing the piano and joins the choir, then a year later, I plays clarinet, I like the clarinet, so I'm playing it NOW. Actually I like flute, but I finally choose the clarinet. Coz all of this is not about MATERING any skill of playing ant music instrument, Ilove to write songs, becoz I just love it, so I write songs. So, it is not about MASTERING of NOT GETTING MASTERING any thing, remember that YOU OR YOUR DAUGHTER HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE YOUR OWN PATHS.

I'm going to vote for the bassoon here (but I'm biased).

If she really must give up instruments at all, the bassoon is probably a better choice, mainly because she's a flautist as well (so the change in embouchure won't throw her too much) and because she's evidently gotten so far on her other instruments. Oboes & Horns are typically more frustrating at the beginning, and she may wonder why she does so well at all her other instruments but not at oboe/horn give it up before she's given it a real chance. The bassoon is a very easy instrument to get started on (though no easier to master than any other).

The main issue for the bassoon is lung capacity. It's easy to blow but it does take a fair bit of air.

You can purchase "mini-bassoons" in 3 different sizes which are respectable instruments in themselves but considerably less expensive! They even come in tiger-stripes, if your daughter isn't "too old" . This also solves the problem as size, they are starting to teach bassoon at the same absurd ages as they teach violin (4 year old bassoonists, anyone?). And when you "grow out" of the mini-size, you can always use them in consorts because as I said - they are respectable instruments in themselves!