Hello Everybody,

I thought I would introduce myself and ask a few questions at the same time.

I started learning how to play the piano about a year and a half ago.
I originally bought a second hand keyboard and that is what I have been practising on. When I first started learning simpilar pieces I found it adequate but now that I am getting a bit more advanced (I use the term broadly ) I find the difference between the keyboard and the paino at my teacher's house vastly different. Pieces that I can play well at home sound dreadful, my timing and dynamics are completely off and I finid I have to re-learn them again.

I would like to get a digital piano, in reality I would love to buy an acoustic one but money and space is very limited. I have about £650 to spend.
Could any one advise me on a good model to buy..?
I am not looking for fancy features, I have that on my keyboard and do not use them. I am looking for something that will imitate the piano as much as possible and maybe allow myself to record and playback my practise pieces.

Also is it recommended to take Grades....?
My piano teacher has not mentioned taking exams and I was wondering if this was normal as I am an adult learner..?
I would like to take an exam and was wondering what the Grade 1 exam entailed and how long would I need to be learning before I could take it....?

I hope someone can help me with these questions.

Thank you
Charms

Hello Charmie - welcome.

I teach both adults and children, and anyone who is interested can take an exam. I'd ask your teacher about it if it's not been mentioned. You can find the syllabus online - you need to learn three pieces from the lists and a few scales / broken chords, aural tests and do a short sight-reading test.

Learning rates vary enormously, and I am adamant about not entering a candidate for an exam until he or she is ready ! - but on average I'd say most students can tackle what's required within two years of starting out.

Re your instrument, I think you are wise to consider upgrading - I wonder if your best bet might be to advertise for a second-hand digital piano? Their life isn't as long as a traditional piano, but they tend to be relatively trouble free. Last time I looked, a Yamaha Clavinova or Roland digital piano was available new (in my local dealer) for about £900 up; although you'd probably do better online I'm doubtful if you would get a decent one for very much less.

Maybe if someone has bought one recently they can give you a bit more detailed information on new prices.

Let us know how you get on - and good luck.

Hi,

The only advice I can give about buying a new keyboard is to make sure you try it out before you buy so you can decide whether or not it has a similar feel to a piano. Make sure the keys are weighted to imitate a piano.

About grades. Although they are not without criticism (browse the forums!), they are in fact a wonderful way to progress and after all the blood, sweat and tears, I am convinced they are a great experience.

Good luck,

Shelton

Hello Charmie,

I normally hate keyboards and Clavinovas but I got a nice little digital piano a couple of years ago. It's a Kawai L1 and cost around 850 pounds (although I haggled and got not only the price down but a free stool as well ) The great thing about it is, not only is a nice touch sensitive keyboard with recording facilities and what have you but that it is extremely narrow (27 cm) which is what sold it for me as I didn't have much space.

here's the link for more info.

http://www.kawaius.com/l1dig.html

Chances are there are better models since then, but I still like mine and use it a lot with currently no problems (and of course, no need for tuning! )

Again, like Shelton, though, the best thing to do is to try before you buy. It took me few visits before I settled on this model.

As for exams, despite all the stress and tears, they were the only things that could force me off my lazy toosh to practice!

Good luck!

Use the shops for testing the things out, but use the web to buy it - you can usually save quite a bit, but be prepared to do a lot of the carrying and installing yourself. The installing's usually easy - connect the pedal cables etc, but they ARE heavy - you'll need a couple of strong lads to help out.

There are new yamaha clavinovas in the 650-700 range which are perfectly good.
You might get a good deal on a secondhand reconditioned acoustic from a dealer too. All clavinovas have weighted keyboards, three pedals and a record function I think. I liked mine - can't comment on the Rolands but a lot of people here seem to think they've even better than the clavs.

As to the grades, if you're the sort of person who needs a tangible goal to get motivated (or get off one's lazy toosh as jazzywench so eloquently puts it ), they're ideal. With the AB you've also got the option of the Performance Assessment - check out the main site.

All the best!

Hi Charmie - welcome to the Forums!

Have a look at these:

Digital pianos

I sold mine through an advert on this site - some ads have photos, but if you see something in your price range I would look up the make on Google to see all the features - and trying it in a shop before you buy on the web is an excellent idea.
I had a Yamaha but also like Rolands - they have a lovely tone.

Good luck

Jen

Hi Everyone

Thanks for the reply.
I am not the best at making decisions and it usually takes me a long while before I do. You have given me loads to think about but one thing is clear I am going to start gearing my piano lessons towards grading.
I do think I need a goal and if I just play for myself ..well I will never get beyond what I feel comfortable with.

To make matters worse on the digital piano buying a friend of mine has an old upright that she was given as a child. She now wants to sell it very cheaply as she nevers plays it, has painted it bright yellow and it needs a some mintenance as in tuning....

I am am thinking about buying this as I know that no matter how good digitals are they are not as good as acoustics. The only thing deterring me is noise, transportation and size.

Can I ask the opinion of the forum is this an opportunity not to be missed...?
I know acoustics will last forever if treated well, but playing to 2am when crunching for an exam on an acoustic in a tiny flat does not seems reasonable.

Thanks again
Charms

Whether this is worth taking on probably depends on how well it's been maintained over the years.

If it hasn't been tuned for several years and has other problems, it may cost you more in setting up than you are content to pay. If at all possible I would get a professional tuner to have a look at it before you decide. It may cost you a few ££ but may save you a lot of cash and heartache in the longer term. On the other hand if it's been reasonably well looked after and not left sitting by a radiator for ages, it may be an acceptable starting piano for you.

I meant to say before, on the subject of exams that the board are always very encouraging towards adults. My students have found the examiners welcoming and positive. I had one adult beginner in her fifties take grade one last year; she was petrified, but needn't have worried - she came out with a merit.

Good luck - I'd certainly go for the grades if you feel you'd like to.

Have to agree with MaggieMay on this one - a bottom of the range new digital is probably going to trounce an old acoustic that's not been maintained. Well worth paying a tuner for a session to give it a once-over, could be money down the drain if you have to have any work done on it....

I bought a Yamaha Clavinova CLP115 a couple of months ago from here http://www.rockingrooster.co.uk/showproduc...ails.php?PID=40

I was the same as you, I spent a couple of months trying to learn on a keyboard.

I think I am going the way of the digital, just for the low maintenance option. Also I can play it late at night with headphones.

I am thinking of either getting a low end brand new or a high end second hand digital.
I have looked at those links you have all posted.

I like the sound of the Yamaha Clavinovas, Kawai or a Roland.
I will try some this weekend and let you know how I got on.

A quick question Ian, have you found any improvements in your playing since getting the digital....?

Another question is has anyone heard of this make of digital piano or know anything about them....
"Diginova Classic V"
"Diginova Concerto V"
The make is Diginova....?

I haven't played one myself, but if I remember correctly, these are not much liked and are regarded as a cheap copy of the better quality Clavinova and Roland models - possibly with inferior sound and touch qualities.

I may be remembering a similar name, in which case I'm unfairly maligning Diginovas. But I think this was the one an ex-pupil of mine had which was not great.

Can anyone confirm or otherwise?

Hmm, even the name rings alarm bells of what sounds like a rip-off of something else. I have no experience of them but I would advise that you try out the pianos you've mentioned and wait a few months, or whatever it takes, until you can afford the brand/model that you feel suits you the best (or of course buy it now if it turns out to be one you can afford). I learnt on a keyboard for a while before getting a digital piano (a while being a couple of years...) and whilst I wouldn't advise it as a good idea to anyone if there's an alternative; I think that you'd be better off in the long run sticking with the keyboard for a few months to buy the piano that you really want; rather than having to learn for several years from now on an instrument which isn't quite as good as it could be.

Yes I found a big improvement quite quickly

Another alternative that is quite similar to the Clavinova clp115 was a Stagg 510 which I found quite similiar to play when I tried it in the shop. I saw one on the internet for about £550

Thanks Maggie about the Diginova...I was wondering about them myself.
I took all the advice given and from what I read it seemed the Yamaha clavinovas were the way to go.
With this in mond I went to a few piano shops yesterday to try out the different makes and even with my limited abilities I knew I had to get a Clavinova. The sound that it made compared to the GEM and Casio was amazing. I even asked the advice of a customer in the store who was playing, what he thought..and was informed that I had to get a Yamaha as you can not play Debussy on a Roland....I was convinced.

I have now opted for the Clavinova CLP240, which I shall buy from Chapells as they have told me they will match internet prices and I would rather buy from a shop.

Thanks again.

Hi Charmie1701 and Maggie!
As far as DIGINOVAS go, I think, as you said, you are confusing them with another brand as they have not been around long (first imports July 05).
They are re-badged Rolands. Many components are identical (same casting numbers etc.). It's difficult to say if they come out of the same factory (back door) or are even produced by Roland themselves.
The fact is it seems 'Anything Goes' in China at the moment. Prices are unbelievably low. The public are rubbing there hands, being able to buy a product at a quater of the previous price.
I think, personally the price is more realistic than the brand-named digitals, who survive on the 'Butter vs Margerine' price. Butter is very expensive to produce (like pianos). Margerine isn't (like digitals) but because one apperars to resemble the other the price can be vastly inflated.
For the record...
DIGINOVA MODELS:
Classic V... semi-weighted, entry level model. Passable touch and good samples.
Concerto V...Good weighted keyboard, very playable.
Conservatoire V... Lots of on-board functions and Hammer action keyboard.
Thanks!

I think you will enjoy your Clavinova. I bought a CLP120 in march and I like the sound and feel of it. However, I've basically learnt to play on it and have never spent more than 15 minutes on a really piano at a time. So I can't compare. I knew if I wanted to start learning and playing that I wanted all the keys(88) and a touch as realistic as possible. As for volume of sound, many say they can put the ear phones on, but theres the volume as well which I alway use in the late hours. . I've been passing RCM exams(Canada) for Classical Guitar(grade 4 certified) but don't plan to do it with piano. But those starting, its an opportunity to learn more than just the songs on piano. Because of the other aspects of the music, sightreading, scales, studies, ear training etc... you don't only play the piano but you become a musician as well.

Pierre.

Hi Charmie1701

I had a Roland digital piano a few years ago when I was living away from home.
Initially it felt okay but as I progressed with harder and more musically challenged pieces I began to dislike the touch and sound. I also felt that the size of the keys were a fraction perhaps 1-2 mm narrower than it should be.

I looked around for another one and by then there were some newer Rolands but they still felt suboptimal. I tried on some of the Yamaha Clavinova and some of the higher price ones felt okay. I sold the Roland and almost brought a Yamaha. Just before I did this, I got offered a job back in my home town, moved home and re-united with my own piano! Thank God.

If I had to move again and have restrictions with space and noise, I think I will go for a medium range Yamaha Clavinova.

I've been taking lessons for 4 years - I'm 48. My teacher doesn't encourage exams only because they limit your pieces to a curriculum that he's not completely in agreement with. I think he'd support me if I wanted to but as long as I know I'm progressing, exams aren't something I plan to do. He's an awesome teacher and does take my desire to learn seriously. We're using Michael Aaron Grade 4 and some jazz and of course a little Hannon on the side! So I think it really depends on your goals and your teacher.

P.S. I have a Roland Digital P2 Classical Piano - fully weighted keyboard with 3 pedals. It's great!!

I started when I was approaching 40 - I'd always said to myself "ooo I'd love to learn the piano" and then with middle-age taking me over myself actually answered - "stop talking to yourself and do something about it"...so I did.

Things I wasn't ready for...

• The amount of time it takes to get to any sort of level of proficience - I had dreams that after three months I'd be banging out xmas carols for the family
• That I'd not only be learning piano but learning a completely new language! (it always makes me smile that I arrived at my first piano lesson unaware that I'd be learning music as well as piano - (I did have a very limited knowledge of music beforehand)
• That you could take exams in something enjoyable!
• That I'd be still doing it and loving it two years down the line

After a few lessons my teacher suggested that I might like to go through the grading process and I was a bit taken aback - I wanted to learn piano to enjoy not to get certificates - but I agreed and have just passed my Grade 4.

Here's my 2p on exams/grading

Good things...

• It pushes you along
• It gives you some idea of how your progressing
• Passing is a very satisfying experience

Bad things...

• The exams are insanely stressful (for me anyway!)
• You spend a lot of time working on pieces for the exams rather than pieces that you like (and to be honest I've not been taken with too many of my exam pieces)
• You have to sing on a piano exam! And I have a voice like a seal with a sore throat!

I bought a Yamaha CLP-120 digital piano and am very happy with it. It was about £700-£800 as far as I remember.

Taking up piano is one of the best thing I have ever done - now how long before I can actually play the darned thing!?

Can you whistle in tune?

I never thought of whistling but I suspect not well enough. I actually thought about taking a singing lesson or two just so I had some idea about how to sing but it seemed a little over the top for a small part of a piano exam (and besides I somehow did OK in my G4 aural - although I recall it being pretty awful (in a funny way).

I might go home and try some whictling practice! Thanks.

Hi Thanks for all the replies.

I ended up buying the Yamaha CLP 240 and love it.
I think it has made a huge difference to my playing as I now feel like a real piano player....not that I can play much yet.

'the-shy-pianoist' - I would really love to have an acoustic. My teacher has a digital so I do not have the opportunity to play on one.
But at the weekend I went to a wedding held in a Grand hotel which had an old upright and I got to try a few of my practice pieces on it...no one seemed to mind and it was a fantastic feeling.
Though I will admit that sound wise my digital was nicer, but hitting the keys on the upright was easier ....why I have no idea...

After a talk with my teacher and a mock Prep test I am now practising for my Grade 1 which I hope to take soon.
At first I was not into taking exams as I wanted to play for fun and play useful tunes..As I call them..but after a while I do agree with you 'Grange85' I felt I needed stucture and something to aim for......

Another thing is I did not realise that you needed to do much singing in your grades....!
I don't sing well at all..If a note is held I can match it after a few atempts but I can't sing the scales or anything close...
Will this be something I should look into learning...?
My teacher is also a singing coach do you think it is worth me asking her for a few lessons....?

That's a good start. Don't worry about scales at this stage. Some students can't match a note when they start out. Is that matching another voice, or a note on the piano?

If you can match a note on the piano, you can practise at home and it will get better. Actually the aural is something that can be included in your lessons - particularly so if your teacher has suggested doing grade one. Ask your teacher if you can do a few minutes of aural each week if it's not something that happens already.

You might enjoy some voice lessons too, but voice coaching is not the same as aural training which I think is what you're probably looking for at the moment. You don't need to do much singing in the grades - it's a small part of the aural tests at least in the early grades. A bit of confidence and some practice may be all you need.

Pleased you are enjoying your Yamaha!

Thanks MaggieMay,

I can match to both a piano and a voice...I was tested to see if I was tone deaf and have found out I am not...just can't sing...

I will ask about the aural tests and ear training and hopefully some practise exercises that I can do at home to improve on this.....

I know this post is very late, but thought I'd add my comments anyway.

I agree with one of the earlier posters ("shy pianist") concerning the progression from digital pianos to acoustic.

I have a Yamaha GB1 baby grand acoustic and a Roland digital piano HP3. The HP3 was fine for practise and playing at first, but since getting my GB1 I spend more hours now playing and practising on it rather than the Roland. The difference in sound, feel and touch between the two is very significant (and the price) and I think no digital piano no matter how advanced will ever have the quality of sound and touch of a good acoustic instrument.

Having said that I would not be without my Roland either as it is a superb piano for recording compositions via midi/usb and music software to my Apple Mac.

Just a word about the Diginova, I am on the verge of buying one for my office (the Diginova Concerto) as this will allow me to get more practice at work. (My boss is very understanding)

With regard to exams, I passed grade 8 some years ago, and on the way up it was tough with many distractions along the way. I stuck at it and the sense of achievement at the end was what made it all worthwhile. I think there has to be some discipline and methodology to learning anything and music in particular, and exams preparation brings a sense of order and correctness to the whole thing and produces a much more rounded, complete pianist.