I'm really curious about the whole handsigns thing with Kodaly... I can totally see how solfa would help, but I really do not get the handsigns thing... someone posted that sight singing a tune with solfa and the signs would help with intonation... the solfa, I totally see how that would help, but I REALLY don't get it about the handsigns...
enlighten me!
Full Version: Kodaly/solfa
I'm not a sol-fa person, but before they get to this thread I may as well start the answer.
The link between body and voice is very important for music, particularly at a young age, when movements with song are helpful etc. It's called kinaesthetics I think. So the tuning is helped as there is a greater link between the note on the page and the (larger) movement of the body, which has "memory" within it linked to the corresponding sound (or interval as it really is).
Even just hand movements up and down a ladder of notes in front of you is helpful (as I use with pupils).
It's part of the answer to your question I'm sure.
The link between body and voice is very important for music, particularly at a young age, when movements with song are helpful etc. It's called kinaesthetics I think. So the tuning is helped as there is a greater link between the note on the page and the (larger) movement of the body, which has "memory" within it linked to the corresponding sound (or interval as it really is).
Even just hand movements up and down a ladder of notes in front of you is helpful (as I use with pupils).
It's part of the answer to your question I'm sure.
As far as I see it is a visual connection relating to pitch. You move up when you go up and like wise down. The shapes have a certain similarity, like soh and mi are more closely related than to fah and lah, which themselves are more similar. They just get the degrees of the scale to a specific sign each.
I eagrely await Cyrilla's response to this.
I eagrely await Cyrilla's response to this.
Ah, well, don't want to disappoint you here, Neil!!
As DomRUK says, they are a kinaesthetic connection between the sound and a physical movement.
As Neil says, each one has a different shape which help to express the function of the note within the scale.
If you use them regularly then the vocal pitch/interval becomes so connected with the physical hand movement that it becomes almost impossible to show one handsign and sing a different pitch.
They are also very helpful as a form of sight-singing - the hand shape recalls the sound, so the teacher can show a phrase or motif with handsigns and the students can sing it in solfa immediately - it's like magic!
The teacher can also show a phrase, motif or whole song with handsigns for the student to sing with inner hearing and then sing aloud, thus aiding memory as well as pitch. (If we had a webcam link here I could have HANDSIGNED Bobby Shafto for all to recognise with 'thinking voice'!!
)
Bagpuss noted the other day in my class that we sang something and the intonation wasn't wonderful - we repeated it with handsigns and it went bang in tune
A teacher can also use both hands - the class is divided into two and each group reads from one hand. This is fantastic intonation and interval practice.
Ah - I just thought - I did say earlier in my answer that it is very difficult to sing one pitch and handsign another - but there is a specific instance when we would definitely ask students to do this: sing a song (which works in canon) in solfa and HANDSIGN the canon - not purely a co-ordination exercise but develops the harmonic hearing too.
Also for similar reasons, in a two-part piece - sing one line while handsigning the other!
This is by no means an exhaustive list of the uses of handsigns but I hope it gives a little insight
As DomRUK says, they are a kinaesthetic connection between the sound and a physical movement.
As Neil says, each one has a different shape which help to express the function of the note within the scale.
If you use them regularly then the vocal pitch/interval becomes so connected with the physical hand movement that it becomes almost impossible to show one handsign and sing a different pitch.
They are also very helpful as a form of sight-singing - the hand shape recalls the sound, so the teacher can show a phrase or motif with handsigns and the students can sing it in solfa immediately - it's like magic!
The teacher can also show a phrase, motif or whole song with handsigns for the student to sing with inner hearing and then sing aloud, thus aiding memory as well as pitch. (If we had a webcam link here I could have HANDSIGNED Bobby Shafto for all to recognise with 'thinking voice'!!
)Bagpuss noted the other day in my class that we sang something and the intonation wasn't wonderful - we repeated it with handsigns and it went bang in tune
A teacher can also use both hands - the class is divided into two and each group reads from one hand. This is fantastic intonation and interval practice.
Ah - I just thought - I did say earlier in my answer that it is very difficult to sing one pitch and handsign another - but there is a specific instance when we would definitely ask students to do this: sing a song (which works in canon) in solfa and HANDSIGN the canon - not purely a co-ordination exercise but develops the harmonic hearing too.
Also for similar reasons, in a two-part piece - sing one line while handsigning the other!
This is by no means an exhaustive list of the uses of handsigns but I hope it gives a little insight
Well said, C! Honestly you should see Cyrilla's two handed signing - awesome. Roger Federer's backhand has got nothing on this girl. Oh and the finger and sing opportunites are just mind blowing (cue Hammerklavier....)
QUOTE(Bagpuss @ Jul 6 2005, 06:07 PM)
Well said, C! Honestly you should see Cyrilla's two handed signing - awesome. Roger Federer's backhand has got nothing on this girl. Oh and the finger and sing opportunites are just mind blowing (cue Hammerklavier....)
Er......wasn't it fing and singer Bagpuss? By the way I got two purple ones so I hope that's ok but they weren't as big as you wanted.......they'd run out of the larger size.
Is there somewhere you can look at these hand signals online?
Thanks
ok I've been reading up, but I want to check before I do anything completely and utterly wrong.
If you're in C major, Do would be the tonic, so C right? But if you're in F major, is Do the tonic of F or is it still C?
And what happens with minor keys?
If you're in C major, Do would be the tonic, so C right? But if you're in F major, is Do the tonic of F or is it still C?
And what happens with minor keys?
QUOTE(elmo @ Jul 7 2005, 06:42 PM)
ok I've been reading up, but I want to check before I do anything completely and utterly wrong.
If you're in C major, Do would be the tonic, so C right? But if you're in F major, is Do the tonic of F or is it still C?
And what happens with minor keys?
If you're in C major, Do would be the tonic, so C right? But if you're in F major, is Do the tonic of F or is it still C?
And what happens with minor keys?
Do is always the tonic whatever key you're in so yes in F major do is F and in C Major it's C. There is a system where do is always C but I think that's just because in different countries they actually call the note C do rather than using the names for relative things, that's a fixed do system. I'm only doing major keys at the moment but I think there's something about starting with the tonic being la for minor keys (which will give the natural minor if the intervals are sung the same); and then there are other names for accidentals too if you need them. I'm sure someone else will give you a more coherent and certain answer later....
Basically solfa represents degrees of the scale. doh is tonic, re is second degree, soh is fifth. In Cmajor doh is C, re is D, mi is E and so on. In F major doh is F, re is G........
Good point about relative minors. Minor scale would be lah to lah, so in A minor A would be lah just like in C major, B would be ti, and when you get to the raised 7th, the 7th note in this scale is soh, but raised makes it si, in A minor this will be G becoming G sharp. Ta-da.
So D minor being relative of F major would start on D - lah, and the raised 7th, si, will be C sharp. Hey presto.
Practise with major keys first though. Ideally you should start with pentatonic music, but certainly things with no accidentals at first. Folk songs or nursery rhymes are usually best.
Incidently you were only given the link for hand signs. You may wish to look at the whole site.
http://www.kodaly.org.au
Have fun.
Good point about relative minors. Minor scale would be lah to lah, so in A minor A would be lah just like in C major, B would be ti, and when you get to the raised 7th, the 7th note in this scale is soh, but raised makes it si, in A minor this will be G becoming G sharp. Ta-da.
So D minor being relative of F major would start on D - lah, and the raised 7th, si, will be C sharp. Hey presto.
Practise with major keys first though. Ideally you should start with pentatonic music, but certainly things with no accidentals at first. Folk songs or nursery rhymes are usually best.
Incidently you were only given the link for hand signs. You may wish to look at the whole site.
http://www.kodaly.org.au
Have fun.
Thanks, I'll have a look at that
QUOTE(Cyrilla @ Jul 6 2005, 05:53 PM)
As DomRUK says, they are a kinaesthetic connection between the sound and a physical movement.
I am slightly dyslexic (or whatever x-lexia it is that means that what comes out of the mouth isn't what is happening in the brain), and find that the hand signs are absolutely invaluable.
They're particularly helpful (for me) in dictation and interval identification. Quite often my hand knows the handsign even if I think that I don't know the solfa.
(Caveat: My parents run a dyslexia centre and tell me that people with some forms of dyslexia would actually find everything more difficult with handsigns.)
QUOTE(JudithJ @ Aug 14 2006, 06:23 PM)
I am slightly dyslexic (or whatever x-lexia it is that means that what comes out of the mouth isn't what is happening in the brain), and find that the hand signs are absolutely invaluable.
They're particularly helpful (for me) in dictation and interval identification. Quite often my hand knows the handsign even if I think that I don't know the solfa.
(Caveat: My parents run a dyslexia centre and tell me that people with some forms of dyslexia would actually find everything more difficult with handsigns.)
Very interesting, Judith, what you say about the dyslexia - and I would like to confirm that Judith is a WHIZZ at handsigns and one of the best people I know to show just how much they can help. In class she is always busy handsigning away under the table (well, I THINK that's what she's doing!
)
QUOTE(Cyrilla @ Aug 14 2006, 11:47 PM)
(well, I THINK that's what she's doing! )
)Gerty, are you casting aspersions on my previously unsullied character?!
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