Hoepfully I can post this here!

I'm thinking of when I eventually take another piano exam, to use Trinity instead.

I've done up to grade 6 with AB, so would I jump straight in with Trinity grade 7?

Is Trinity grade 7 same standard as AB grade 7?

Yes, they are on a par really, although sometimes you get discrepancies e.g. there are Grade 8 clarinet pieces on the current Trinity Grade 7 syllabus. The exams are slightly different. You can do a technical study instead of scales (well you can for woodwind exams and I assume you can for piano too) and there is a viva voce.

Hi Saxlover,

When I did my grades I did up to Grade 5 with the ABRSM and the next grade I did was Grade 7 with Trinity. Part of the reason for this was I wasn't quite ready to take my Grade 5 theory which you need to progress further with ABRSM grades, but you don't need it for Trinity. For my Grade 8 I went back to the ABRSM, once I had attained my Grade 5 theory.

Also, my teacher at the time said that Trinity was "easier"! Which in his view was another reason for doing the grade with Trinity rather than ABRSM.

Hope that helps!

Mrs M

Most of my students do ABRSM exams now and the ones who are taking Trinity have already started Trinity exams with another teacher. For Trinity, there are fewer scales but you have to learn a study too, some of the pieces are slightly harder than Associated Board, the Aural are quite difficult and the sight reading is slightly harder for higher grades. In my experience of Trinity exams they are marked to a slightly higher standard but this may change with the merger with Guildhall. I also found with the grade 8 piano pieces that there was so much octave playing it was impossible to select a programme for candidates with smaller hands.

(I'll email you later Nat)

Way less that half the scales

There is a study instead, so it is in no way an 'easy' option.

I have my first Trinity grades 6 & 7 preparing for December.

Steve

Yes but the 'study' is usually ghastly and very difficult considering how few marks its actually worth. My students prefer the scales....

Students have a choice of 2 studies. The grade 6 includes Chopin's 'Raindrop' Prelude; a tough piece at this level but sublimely beautiful. The alternative is easier and more productive than the mass of scales it replaces, in my opinion.

The grade 7 studies again are difficult but one looks eminently playable.

I also like the alternatives offered by the syllabus, right down the grades (I have some grades 3, 4 and 5 who will start preparing them soon as well). I like the viva which gives candidates the incentive to learn the theory and historical background of the music they are playing; they can replace this by playing a piece from memory, if they choose. There are alternatives to the 'performing seal' style of aural still adopted by the AB. There are even excellent 'keyboard musicianship' tests that candidates can prepare instead of scales and studies altogether. Trinity have other advantages as well: shorter exam periods; later closing date for entries; quicker results publishing.

We can debate the pros and cons of all this; no doubt we shall. I had never considered Trinity up until a few months ago, so all this is new to me. By comparison, the AB syllabus appears mired in the 1950's.

The AB need to consider that a 54 year old teacher who grew up with the AB and used them all his professional career is now trying an alternative. I would like to see them look again at their syllabus and build in more flexibility.

My pizza is going to be ready any time now, so I am off for some tea. Later on, or tomorrow, I will post my views on the aural section of the exam and see what people think.

Steve

So I still have to do aural..even if I do Trinity!! Drat!!

Is there any exam board that doesn't do aural?!?!!?

Don't think so Nat. Guildhall do aurals and London College. You NEED to do aurals anywhere so you have to work on them (you know what advice I'd give ). They're usually very different on each board though so you can decide which are least difficult.

They are all difficult for me!!

Yes I know *cough* KODALY *cough*

Yes, but even solfa if you can't do the whole Kodaly. I have never been on a course so I can't say I have learned Kodaly, but I have been practising solfa on my own, which in itself has improved my aurals. Kodaly is such a huge concept, but the basic tools of the method can go a long way with aurals.

With Trinity you have a choice between Aural Awareness and Extemporisation and Ear Tests. (At least you do on the woodwind syllabus.) I'm just investigating Grade 6 flute for a student of mine who categorically refuses to take a theory exam.

I was very pleased about the consideration given to my Trinity Grade 8 flautist whose accompanist got the time of the exam wrong. She also got her results the next day, which has meant we were able to have a final debriefing this week. This is a luxury I never usually get with my Upper Sixth college students. I'm lucky if I find out their results, never mind talking them through with the students.

I'm hoping that the merger with Guildhall means we get the best of the two syllabuses, and not the worst.

The Guildhall (now Trinity Guildhall) do 3 initiative tests instead of aurals:

1 playing a rhythm on one note and from Grade 3 upwards making this into a melody

2 playing intervals withing the octave

3 finishing off a melody

These tests are a useful alternative to aurals - I use them quite often with my keyboard exams pupils because the AB do not yet have a keyboard syllabus.

Hi noodle

I have posted my viws on the aural tests in a new post. I will be interested to see what you and others think.

Steve

One thing I never seem to work out between AB and Trinity/Guildhall, is the HUGELY differing opinions. I know people who don't do T/G because "the aurals are harder", people who do them because "the scales are easier" and people who do them because "the aurals are easier", and opinions on marking ranging from AB being way harder markers to T&G being much more strict... I guess it just goes to show that we're all different, or something....

I suppose it's 'put 20 different muzos together and you will get 30 different opinions'.

OK, so I quote myself, but well, hey

I'm interested in this discussion as a parent from a non-musical background with a child who is likely to take grade 6 trinity piano. She is quite young and will only be starting theory lessons in September, has previously taken AB exams. She would like to play Haydn from list A and Bartok from list C (which has also been an AB grade 6 piece) but is undecided on list B so any suggestions what a child might enjoy would be appreciated. Her hands aren't too small but she would find big stretches too much. I think it's nicer to do a fourth piece rather than loads of scales, this looks like being the Kabalevsky study in A minor op.27, I have a book of fifteen pieces for children op.27 but it's not in this but I am assuming it would not have big stretches. She might well play a piece from memory but I would like to know what exactly is "viva voce" and what are ear tests . Thanks in advance for any help.

Hi Odette

I have just started one of mine on the pieces. She chose the Liadov Prelude when I played them to her; it is a short, romantic song without words type piece. I agree with the study, for what that is worth; the Chopin is absolutely beautiful but is a piece I give to pupils of good grade 7 to modest grade 8 standard.

You can go to the Trinity website and download a pdf version of the syllabus; this tells you what your daughter needs to know in the viva. If you can't find the document then send me a pm with an email address and I will send you a copy of mine.

Steve

As all the four major boards are equally accepted by anyone who matters (such as the QCA) it stands to reason that the standard, overall, MUST be directly comparable. My recollection as a teacher is of Guildhall piano being easier than AB which in turn was easier than trinity. I've recently decided to have another shot at grade 7 piano (yes I'm practising this time!) and I would say the London College pieces are easier still - and the sight reading is about two grades easier than trinity. But so what, as long as it's equally accepted? For strings, though, it was the other way round with Guildhall being notably harder, and for flute and recorder, AB was by far the easiest. I am going back ten years or more.

I recall passing on one of my gifted but bone idle piano pupils, after grade 5, to a very respected piano teacher who had never ever had a failure simply because she wouldn't put pupils in for an exam until they were a safe pass. Me, i'm afraid, I erred to much in the opposite direction. So this pupil, who had done Guildhall grade 5, was put back to grade TWO on the (untrue!) grounds that "guildhall is much easier". The teacher concerned didn't realise that this pupil only ever practiced once she was entered for the exam and that once she started practicing she would learn all the pieces in a couple of weeks. Sigh. My singing teacher was the same - I did grade 7 trinity and she insisted that AB was harder so I had to do grade 7 AB. that sort of thing is highly discouraging to pupils and if teachers really do think the pupil has done easier exams, they should do the decent thing and keep their opinions to themselves.

Liz

Hallo, Steve and thanks for the help on Trinity grade 6, I've found the relevant information now and also the Kabalevsky study which does look a lot more straightforward than the Chopin. The Liadov piece sounds nice, we're also looking at Grieg Peasant's song, can I ask how you think the two compare in terms of difficulty?

I am 'playing from memory' a bit here. I made a bit of a mistake sight-reading the pieces to Imo (Imogen) rather than practising them foir a few minutes first, and I had to leave the ook with her. Imo chose the Grieg; I spent a lesson preparing her and so remember this best. Having said that:

Really, they are both 'songs without words'.

In these terms, the Liadov is more straightforward; there is a simple chordal accompaniment to support the melody; there is little counterpoint. The key signature is horrendous (I suspect this influenced Imo's choice) but an advanced piano student needs to be able to cope with large numbers of flats and sharps in the key sig but Imo would not have been influenced by educational concepts such as this . The Grieg is a true Romantic Miniature, a perfect example of a 'song without words' with the added advantage of some inner parts to bring out and highlight in performance.

My own choice woult be the Liadov, but only by a short head. They are both brilliant pieces.

Hope this helps

Steve

Sorry. I just remembered you were asking which I considered to be th easiest.

The Liadov by not much.

Steve