if anyone reading this plays both Flute AND Recorder, do you find that playing both goes with each other repertoire wise?

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Chris

All recorder repertoire, except some avant-garde stuff, can be played on flute.

Liz

no what i meant was do you feel that studying both flute and recorder coincide with each other especially if you were to specialise in Baroque music

I think Andante_in_C plays both flute and recorder, she would be able to answer your question.

If you mean, is it easier to learn flute and recorder than it would be to learn two instruments from different families, the answer is, yes, very much so!

Liz

I might if I were able to understand it.

Apologies for grumpiness, I got out of bed the wrong side this morning.

do you feel that playing flute and recorder (especially when specialising in Baroque Music) coincide with each other?

Technique-wise or interpretation-wise? And modern flute or baroque flute?

more interpretation that technique and im talking about modern flute and recorder

Well, obviously there are similarities. It depends whether you're looking at recorder music played on the flute (eg Handel and Telemann sonatas) or flute music arranged for recorder (Telemann Fantasias, Bach Partita).

One of the main decisions on the flute is how far to use the capabilities of the modern flute (eg vibrato and dynamic range) to colour the piece. Playing pieces on the recorder tends to make for fewer decisions, but fewer possibilities. There is also a difference in register between flute and treble recorder - the break between bottom and middle occurs in a different place and that changes the sound. If you play the same piece on both instruments it tends to feel like two different pieces.

The Associated Board tend to put recorder versions a couple of grades higher than flute versions (eg the Telemann D minor sonata). I find most of the Telemann sonatas easier to play on the recorder, partailly because they lie under the fingers better.

If you're looking at flute pieces arranged for recorder, then you may have more difficulties than the other way round. You are having to contract, rather than expand your horizions. Here I generally do find the recorder versions more difficult.

In summary, I would agree that there is a fairly substantial overlap in the baroque repertoire (especially Handel and Telemann), but much less elsewhere. Some of the Dolmetsch-commissioned mid-twentieth century pieces can be played on both instruments as well. I prefer the Berkeley Sonatina on flute, the Rubbra Coeurs Desoles on recorder.

Hope this is what you're looking for.

thanks, so if there was a chance to study flute and recorder in conjunction, would you reccomend it for the Baroque specialist?

i think they go well yeh, wen im used to playin somethin on a recorder u have to think more wen playin on flt due to flt bein in c rather than f, but thats all really

Can you tell us exactly what you mean by 'in conjunction'? Same teacher, or something like a joint honours programme?

pretty much just learning them simutaneously

Oh, I've never tried to learn them simultaneously, I stopped playing the recorder when I took up the flute (I was never very good at it anyway) because my flute teacher warned me that my embouchure would suffer!

hmm my embouchure's fine.... i play both all the time

recorders dont even have an embouchure (well...a very small 1) and many flautists double onto recorder and vice versa, take Phillipe Bernold for one

Of course recorders have an embouchure - it's the name for the shape of your mouth when you blow into a wind instrument! It just isn't very specific, as it were, for recorder, unlike for instance flute which requires a certain mouth shape to be made just to get a sound, let alone a good sound. Some people find that their flute embouchure is affected by playing other wind instruments, esp. clarinet, and very fine flautists on this board have commented that playing the recorder or other instrument affects their embouchure either temporarily or for a long term (I think someone on the flutenet list even said recently that their embouchure was adversely affected by playing the picc?) - others have no problems whatsoever.

Um, I think what's meant by recorders not having an embouchure is that one doesn't do anything except stick the recorder between the lips and blow. Every other woodwind instrument I've tried to play involves shaping the mouth to some extent before the mouthpiece/reed is inserted.

I have found that playing the recorder for a longish period (30 minutes+) adversly affects my flute playing if I try to play the flute straight afterwards. It has had no permanent affect on my flute embouchure, and has less immediate effect than eating spicy food, for example.

I did joint first study flute and recorder. I play modern flute but usually style the baroque repertoire authentically. I have had great fun arranging flute pieces for treble recorder as well as pinching alot of modern recorder pieces for flute. Sometimes I feel the silver flute is too cumbersome an instrument for some of the early stuff but I love both instruments passionately. Enjoy!

I've realised since I started playing the recorder a lot more that I prefer the lack of 'plumbing'.

Yay, Andante - glad you can see where The Cat is coming from....!

I find the descant feels almost weird, it's just toooooooooooooo crazily light and the holes are so close together

I've been playing the sopranino tonight. Even more so...

eeek - I would struggle! I'm not that keen even on descant anyway to be honest - too shrill for my liking... that has something to do with my playing, obviously but I'm not even keen on it when played by really excellent players. Treble and downwards is more my taste!

I love the sopranino. It's high, but not shrill like the dreaded piccolo because it's such a tiny instrument. I'm not too keen on the notes above top C, and bottom F is a bit sharp and uninteresting on mine, but the rest of it is just lovely. And I can flit around those quick semiquaver passages and my breath goes on for ever.

i ditto that i love sopranino myself, especially doing the Vivaldi Piccolo Recorder concertos (Piccolo Recorder being Sopranino) Garklein...HA thats nearly impossible to play! Tenor...urgh, my one has a tendancy to not play the upper octave terribly well i need a new one

descant and treble \m/ my main ones really but whats wrong with piccolo? it makes a good attention grabber especially for making orchestral players pay attention

Hmm. To be fair I've never played one! I'll have to give it a chance sometime. Though I doubt I'd have the cash for a nice one! Ho hum. Do you like the descant?


I can see how that would appeal... it must be quite strange after playing the flute, your fingers must be SO close together!

Mine is just a plastic Aulos 207 - very nice for the money. They're a bit more expensive than descants, but not hugely.

Oh really? That's interesting. Do you think the sop is less shrill than the descant because it's smaller? I have descant treble and tenor bog-standard aulos - I mean, decent recorders, but just the standard range - also an EMI treble. The EMI has a nicer tone, at least I think so!, but is less reliable with intonation and tends to be a bit flatter overall. My descant is OK but I do find it shrill especially when going into the pinched notes, though it depends on the note (it's partly to do with my playing I'm sure!) as F# is nicer than E for example. But I do tend to find recordings of descant to be a bit shrill too, so I think it's partly just my preference!

(thanks for answering all my random queries, tis much appreciated!)

The slightly more expensive plastic ranges tend to be sweeter-toned. I have a Yamaha 302 and 312 descant (the 312 is simulated rosewood, slightly more expensive and slightly less mellow than the 302, although the differences are supposed to be cosmetic only). I also have a new Moeck Rottenburgh boxwood descant, which I still haven't played in properly. It's a nice sound, again more mellow than the plastic ones.

I think I'll have to stick with the ones I own for the moment, unless I get tempted by a sop in a weak moment I don't even know what model number they are - but I think the cheapest end of the aulos plastic range. They don't even have numbers on them, just the E (which is to do with fingering I've been told?) except the descant which tells me it's "no. 205"... The nice thing with recorders I guess is that comparatively to the other instruments I play, if I get hooked they aren't *insanely* expensive to upgrade though I know recorderholics can end up owning several so it can get expensive!

Yes, the 'E' is for English or Baroque fingering (as opposed to German fingering which is different).

My most expensive plastic descant (the 312) was £15. The 302, which I prefer in lots of ways, was £10. They are both much superior to the basic plastic Aulos, so you can upgrade the sound for a smallish outlay. It's worth trying them out if you can - they seem to be stocked by general music shops. ISTR my sopranino was around £12, but I might be completely wrong. I bought my bass from Chamberlain, which was by far the cheapest even including carriage, but they wouldn't be competitive for smaller recorders because of the carriage charge, although their online prices are worth using for comparison.

Mmmm...

Oh dear. I can feel myself being tempted *grin*

Thanks andante, I shall have a browse around...

BEWARE!!! Once you start buying them you can't stop! I keep all of my hand made recorders on a wine rack in my music room (as one does) except the tenor as then I'd have to buy another wine rack which would then just HAVE to be filled with MORE recorders!!! Yay. I only have one sopranino - it is a Dolmetsch coralwood....beautiful thing, gorgeous sound....(it sounds particularly impressive after a few pints.) The Bag x

Coralwood? my my that sounds lovely.

i still would rather have the Moeck Rottenburgh in Ebony in sopranino descant and treble, theyre such beautiful instruments to hear and play!

bagpuss, you make me giggle - you rock!

I definitely think I could treat myself to an upgrade of my descant and maybe my treble. What would be a near equivalent in reasonable-priced-ness and fairly decent sound in a treble to say the descant aulos 302?

I can just imagine a wine rack full of recorders!!!

Hey - a rocking cat, mmm. Trouble with the wine rack is I now have no where to put my wine so I have no choice but to drink it all continuously. Thanks to all the students who have recognised that they have driven me to alcohol dependency and bought be bottles of the stuff at the end of term

I'll have to investigate the wine rack idea. I think I've got enough recorders to fill one, but only two are hand-made.

The Yamaha 302 range is good for trebles as well, Sarah. ISTR jo.clarinet saying that she has had pupils get Grade 8 distinctions using them.

Really? Cool. I think it'd take more than a nice recorder for me to get distinction at grade 8 but yes they must have a nice sound.

You guys are a bad influence!

At least it won't take as long to save up for as for an alto flute...

Thank you for the info!