good lord i dont consider myself absolutely brilliant!!!!! i consider myself GOOD. thats all and why cant i be confident in myself?

i just learnt them all from the very basics, no quick or easy way. but i do have the basic foundation of them so its not too bad now.

No one is telling you not to be confident - we're saying don't be over confident. Jumping straight into grade 8 when you just got 111 for grade 5 having prepared for it for 8 months is over-confident.

i started my scales back in september when i started preparing for Grade 5 which i took a month ago.

but i have the intention of spending TWO YEARS doing Grade 8 so i can do as well as i can, plus i have said earlier i will be doing Grade 6/7 repertoire in conjunction with it so i dont get bored stiff of my exam pieces.

Everyone has to learn scales "from the very basics". No one starts the piano being able to play C major!

If your teacher let you get to the stage of being ready to start to prepare for grade 5 and you knew NO scales, then your teacher is doing a BAD job.

8 months is more than long enough even if you did start from scratch. I started piano again (having just scraped grade 3 13 or more years ago and not touched a piano since) last June (just over a year ago) and within 6 months (having only ever done the most basic scales - even the current grade 3 scales are harder than they were in my day) I can now play all the major and minor (harmonic and melodic forms) seperately and hands together, all the major and harmonic minors contrary motion, all the scales and most of the broken chords, all the chromatics in similar and contrary motion and in minor 3rds. So 8 months should be PLENTY for someone who's been learning for 3 years to do the scales for grade 5... especially someone who's aiming to start work on grade 8.


1) the syllabus will have changed by then - you need to in the first place wait for the new one anyway.
2) if you spend two years learning the pieces then you will be so bored with them by the exam you probably won't do very well. (it shows if you have played your pieces to death, and examiners can tell if the student has been playing them in to the ground.
3) taking that long (two YEARS???!) to prepare pieces means the exam is too hard for you. if you leave grade 8 pieces alone until you have THOROUGHLY worked through grade 6 and 7 pieces/repertoire/scales/studies/technique, then it will not take 2 years for you to learn the pieces. To be honest, the fact you took 8 months JUST to prepare the grade 5 pieces and scales suggests that that exam was beyond you - especially as you got respectable but not amazing marks for the exam.

If it will take you two years to prepare the scales and exams, then it is because the exam is WAY too hard for you. If you just straight into the preparation now you are doing yourself a huge disservice. Do yourself a favour and do the groundwork and lay the foundations before you come unstuck.

the syllabus is in force for 4 years isnt it? and i've said it before, i wont be spending 2 years exclusively on Grade 8 i said i'll be doing Grade 6/7 stuff as well, heck if need be i'd even take a break from Grade 8 preperation and do Grade 6/7 stuff for a while.

and why is 8 months long enough? apparently its a year thats long enough.

No, it's 2 years. So there's no point.

I just don't get it... you say you're perfect or VERY good at loads of things, yet you get a pass in your Grade 5. Then you decide to rush on to Grade 8 when your Grade 5 wasn't exactly shining and you want to prepare for 2 years for an exam, whose syllabus isn't even out yet. You just don't make sense...

For grade 5, 8 months is a long time to spend JUST preparing the exam material for someone who has been playing for several years already. (and don't jump on me here if I have got the right end of the stick - it is you who has said that the last 8 months have just been preparation for grade 5). Even 8 months with other stuff on the go still is quite a long time to prepare 3 exams pieces and the scales to go with them, and then to get a good but average mark.

Most people would expect to spend a relatively LONG length of time preparing for grade 8 as the pieces tend to be longer, and for the higher grade exams more is expected (in terms of interpretation and just being a very good player) - if you play a grade 8 piece as well as you play a grade 5 piece (if that makes sense), the grade 8 piece would get a lower mark, because just playing it well is not enough at that level. However, 2 years to prepare grade 8 pieces is still a very long time, and even at grade 8 I would not expect someone to ONLY be doing exam stuff for a whole year or even 8 months, even if the pieces took 8 months or a year to go from unlearned to exam standard, let alone be preparing the pieces (even with other stuff alongside) for two years. Quite apart from the fact that it would suggest the student was aiming too high, to do the same pieces for such a long time would be deadly.

No one can stop you starting your grade 8 pieces as soon as the syllabus comes out: but people with a good deal more knowledge and experience than you have warned you it is a bad idea. If you decide to ignore them, then on your own head be it.

well i clearly dont examine well do i? is that such a crime? ive done things MUCH better than any exam that i've done

frankly exams just give you an idea of what you are actually capable of.

well surely theres carry over time from this syllabus to the old syllabus in the beginning of 2007?im sure i can get my Grade 8 pieces/scales done by then as well as build up more Grade 5-7 technique and repertoire

and obviously i would put more effort into the Grade 8 piece than i did for Grade 5, you know, perfect them even more

and why cant one REALLY focus on an exam? whats so bad about it?

would it make everyone happy if i didnt do Grade 8 at all and just do other repertoire or polish up other pieces like Debussy's La Cathederale Englouite or Rachmaninov's Prelude in C#minor Op.3 No.2 and learn other pieces that are on the GRade6/7 board?

its really starting to bug me now

Practically everyone gets nervous for exams, and hardly anyone plays as well in the exam room as they do outside it. However if you truly believe that you examine badly then I don't know why it should be any different at grade 8 than at grade 5.... nerves don't decrease as one attempts harder exams...


Yes, exams give you an idea of what you are capable of - and examiners tend to be extremely skilled at seeing what slips are due to nerves and whether someone is foundationally a skilled and well prepared player or not. You say that exams give an idea of what you are capable of, (which is true, by the way) and yet you seem to be utterly ignoring your exam result and what it tells you about the next appropriate step for your piano studies. What's the point of doing the exam if you ignore the result and do what you were going to do anyway...?


Exams are a means, not an end. Becoming a better pianist is the main thing - passing grade 8 is a useful signpost. Spending 2 years preparing for it is not the best way to become, long term, an accomplished pianist.

If, as you claim, you truly love music, then you would do what is best for your playing long term. Experienced pianists, both players and teachers, and experienced musicians of all shapes and sizes, have told you that jumping straight on to grade 8 is not the best course long term for your playing. You have utterly ignored them and said "but this is the way I'm going to do it." Well fine, but don't expect anyone to believe you when you say you just want to be good. If you choose to ignore good, well-meaning advice, from experienced people who wish you help you make decisions which will help your piano teaching, then there's not a lot I or anyone else can say...

well as i said, would it make you or anyone else here happy if i DONT do it then?!

You can still finish school with a distinction in G6 or G7! Rather than another pass at G8, which do you think is worth more on the KUCAS Form?

What do you intend to do when you finish school? I have read some of your other topics on this Forum and you really need to do your research properly (e.g. the syllabus is 2 years not 4!)and slow down. Better to be good at something than mediocre at many things. Its like this, if you had got a distintion at G5 in 8 months, then clearly that indicates some possibility of talent and our responses would acknowledge that ... But you only got 111. and still want to leap to G8 now you say its because you wont have a teacher after school. You can always get another teacher, thats what I was telling you previously, my daugher had piano lessons as a music undergraduate at a leading London Conservatoire and is still taking piano lessons since she graduated.

I am bowing out of this thread now - I have just re-read the rules above! Am begining to wonder if this thread is serious at all, many have given such personal experiences and excellent advice...

Believe it or not, no one is giving this advice to make you angry or to bug you - people are trying to help you make wise decisions which will help you long term. If you don't want to hear it and you're planning to do what you want anyway, despite many people telling you that long term it isn't a good idea, then stop reading the thread. Which, by the way, I think we are all doing gradually as you prove you're not willing to listen to advice...

*signing out and giving up*

ps funnily enough, I don't think anyone who's posted in here is trying to "make themselves happy" by suggesting a sensible approach to your piano studies... funnily enough, they're trying to help you be happy with your own playing long term... you may not believe it, but it's definitely true.

Did I imagine it, or are you asking on another thread about length of recital for diploma exams ??
Please tell me I imagined it !

By the way it's Engloutie I believe.

well answer this...would Grade SEVEN be ok?

Maggie, do you really want to know??! sorry, but that did make me laugh, in a despairing laugh-or-I-might-scream kind of way...

GCBS: I think you have heard pretty much everyone's opinions - asking the question several times will not significantly change the answers, though it might well cause them to be phrased less tactfully...

S_F, so GRade 6 it is then?

Chopin, you WILL be bored to death with your exams pieces long before then, honestly. The only way you could avoid that would be to keep taking breaks, like, two months on exam pieces, six months off, two months on, six months off, one month on, three months off, one month on, two months off, then work the pieces until the exam, or some similar sort of programme - and honestly that seems like a very odd way of tackling it even if it would get you there in time which i doubt. Two terms on exam pieces is enough to drive most people up the wall - how would you want to turn round and do another four terms on your grade 5 pieces now, for example?

Still, at the end of the day it's up to you and you teacher, and if being able to say that you are working for grade 8 is that important to you then i guess you had better learn the hard way.

Liz

My thoughts exactly..........

What grade you choose should please yourself not other people on this board. It is you who will be doing the exam, people on here are just trying to help you.

Don't worry nicki, I think it's fair to say GCBS will definitely please him/herself no matter how much helpful advice is given even assuming GCBS isn't just making stuff up as s/he goes along, which is looking more and more likely

erm...how am i?

been playing nearly 3 years, made pretty good jobs of a fair number of pieces, clearly do not examine well and got the ambition of getting Grade 8 in at least one subject before i leave school.

what could i be making up?

and frankly i'll probably end up doing Grade 6/7 now

what else do you need to know about me Sarah_flute?

seeing as the order of the day seems to be asking the same question different ways ........



This was somebody else using your screen name wasn't it ?????

no...is it a crime to take in interest in diploma exams? i mean theres no way on earth i'd even contemplate taking one yet so why not? (cant you tell i've not seen the syllabus?)

well that's a relief.

i know i can be over ambitious but im not THAT bad =o\ sheesh

I think I'll make my final remark in this thread then bow out....

This whole thread started with you posting that you'd got 111 in Grade 5 and were now planning to do grade 8. If you look at the first page, you'll see that everyone was just trying to point out - in the nicest possible manner - that maybe immediately attempting Grade 8 given your result was perhaps not the best course of action to develop your skills as a pianist. You're not the first person to want to go grade 8 immediately after grade 5 and I'm sure you won't be the last; all the comments given were from the perspective of people who'd taught/known people who'd tried doing that and either failed to pass the exam or, if they had passed, failed to become a competent pianist at any rate.

As for whether you are, in fact, ready to start working on grade 8 now - to be honest, I've never heard you play the piano, but the attitude with which you come across on these forums bears all the hallmarks of the people whom we know to have tried rushing to grade 8 before. Claiming to be able to play a catalogue of repertoire that would make a diploma candidate blush, claiming that your exam performance would have been much better if the nerves hadn't affected you, regarding any easier repertoire as being 'insulting to [your] intelligence'. As I said, we've never heard you play so all we have to go off is how you come across.

As people have said, there is a world of difference between grades 5 and 8; much more than just technical competence is required. A distinction at grade 5 suggests that many of the elements needed for higher grades may already be developing; a mid-pass does not. To do well at higher grades, one must understand what makes a piece difficult; it's like the old saying: 'Mozart is too easy for beginners but too difficult for experts'. Claiming to be able to play some of your pieces you've mentioned given your performance under examination suggests that you don't yet understand this. Certainly, the sheer number of pieces you claim to be able to play can only be ascribed to dilletantism and lack of appreciation of the complexities of the works mentioned.

To be honest, at the start of this thread I, personally, was concerned with ensuring that you understood that immediately starting work on the grade 8 pieces without coming up through the ranks in between was not the best course of action to either pass the exam or develop your abilities. Obviously, there's the chance you could prove us wrong and be a competent pianist with a good mark on grade 8 in two years from now if you carry on as you intended; more likely than not, you won't be. Having being rendered apathetic, though, I'll be refraining from any schadenfreude.

Okay I think I'm going to be the first one to lose the tact (maybe it's the only thing that will work...). What I am about to state now is a fact:

You said:


Given that you got 111 at grade 5 (not to mention that you took 8 months to do the pieces) and the average mark for ABRSM exams is 114 you are not in fact 'good' but below average. Normally being confident is a blessing, and I would not usually say this to anyone or try to dent their confidence, but being overconfident in the world of piano playing is quite a curse. When 'average' people take grade 5 their next step will be repertoire broadening and only after a good six months or so at that will they be ready to even think about looking at grade 6 pieces. Grade 6 comes after grade 5 because that's how much an average person would be expected to progress, since you are 'below average' I would suspect that you need to take longer than six months playing before even starting on any grade 6 pieces; and if you want to be a good pianist longer than that to get you higher up the mark scale.

You cannot use the excuse of getting nervous in examinations everyone gets nervous in exams, overcoming this is as much part of learning to be a pianist as playing the notes: if you can't perform under pressure then you'll never be able to perform in a recital or play for anyone. As for bad days, I've heard a grade 8 exam where the performer stopped in the middle of a piece and had to resume again (from the same place of course): bad enough day for you? certainly didn't happen in practise sessions. The mark for that piece: 28, the mark for the exam: 138. Bad days are easily spotted by examiners if your only mistakes were due to nerves on the day I'd suspect your mark would be a lot higher. Read the comments that you've been given: if you can't understand them ask your teacher about it, they should be able to help you.

Whilst your attitude has now eventually extracted apathy from many usually so caring people I remain someone who does care about this topic: not because I am more caring about you but I am offended that someone can make such a mockery of the examination system. So many people work so hard for grade 8 and take a long time to get there: grade 8 means something. It's not fair to all of those people to insult their qualification by studying to get it through choosing the easiest pieces and rote learning them for two years, that's not what being a grade 8 pianist is about: if you were using the examination system properly, quite frankly, I'd say that you're not ready for grade 5 yet if you do believe you have talent; never mind grade 8. Yes passes exist for a reason but that is for people who have worked long and hard for years and years battling through the grades and really achieving something by passing; not for people who believe they are wonder talents to get the highest number as quickly as they can.


Congratulations to your son; unfortunately that wasn't my result, it was someone elses (although I'd be very happy if it were!).

really hope this thread isnt a joke after all the effort everyone has made on this

Can you really say you dont take exams well? how many other exams have you taken? I think you just need more experience in performing so that you are not so nervous in exams/concerts.

Try and get a copy of These Music exams so you can see what the examiners are looking for in your performance.

What does your teacher think you should be playing? curious ...

Well done!
If you have to get your grade 8 by then the pieces will have changed so there's not much point trying to learn the current grade 8 syllabus. You'd be better going through grades 6 and 7, or one or both of them, and aiming to do your grade 8 at Easter or in June of 2007. In any case if you start work on the grade 8 pieces now, you'll be working at them and the scales for ages, which I don't really recommend - a few months at most should be sufficient if you are really grade 8 standard. And if you work through grades 6 and 7, albeit quickly, you'll be building up the technique and musical experience needed to really cope with grade 8. If you had got a high distinction for your grade 5 I might have felt more OK with your intentions to go for grade 8 but to be honest, although you've done really well to pass, I would have been expecting 28 or 29/30 for pieces, and full marks for your scales, etc. (It is possible - I had full marks for my scales from time to time.) Please don't think I'm being harsh - I'm just concerned, and if you were my pupil I would seriously be trying to change your mind - you'll still get to grade 8 by June 2007, I think, but it would be better to take the scenic route, rather than belting on up the motorway and missing so much out in the process.

Ive done Grades 1 and 3 Clarinet (112 and 107 respectively with a poor clarinet teacher)
Grade 4 Descant recorder (self taught 113)
Grade 5 Theory (self taught 70/100)
so yes, i do not examine well

very well i'll do Grade 7 if that keeps anyone happy

im only guessing no one is too keen on me doing anything beyond Grade 6 huh?

I don't think many of us do think we examine well - I don't call shaking hands in piano exams - so badly the examiner could see the shakes from the other side of the room, or sweaty fingertips (lethal on an openhole flute) & hyperventilating while playing the flute, doing an exam well, but there you go - I'm not looking for sympathy or excuses.

Then there's the one where he practised grade 1 clarinet for a year doing six hours a day -- and only came out with a pass.

Liz

Then there's the one where he practised grade 1 clarinet for a year doing six hours a day -- and only came out with a pass.

Liz

[/quote]


i dont know how it happened...but it did

What I can't work out is where on earth you FOUND six hours a day when, one assumes, you were at school at the time - I'm assuming you didn't do this exam at the age of 4 or during a period when you were being homeschooled? But even if the six hours a day was really 30 MINUTES a day for a year, at grade 1, on a woodwind instrument, 112 is frankly WAY below the standard one could expect. I mean, I'd expect a pupil who never did any practice at all, ever, to get that much on grade 1 on a woodwind instrument after a couple of terms, unless the pupil was very young or a very poor reader, perhaps. One who did 30 minutes a day I'd be expecting to be at least grade 3 merit after a year. If you really did practice (even if only 20-30 minutes a day) and you really only got 112 at grade 1 and it really took you a year, then either your teacher was very bad indeed or you are very unmusical indeed (perhaps you got zero for aurals?) or you spent your entire practice time doing anything BUT your exam work (perhaps you decided to try the grade 6 pieces instead of bothering with grade 1?). In short, it just doesn't add up.

Liz

how did i find the time? i literally practised day and night, before i went to school, during school and after school

well i did do Grade 6 pieces during preparation for Grade 1 and my teacher ALWAYS made every student he taught take a year to prepare and yes he was appauling!!! he missed half the lessons he was supposed to teach

unmusical...HOW DARE YOU!!!!

to be honest, i know it doesnt add up...and i 75% blame it on my teacher who i no longer have

Even with an appalling teacher, if you had practiced as much as you say you have, I think you would've got a higher mark for your Grade 1. If you know your syllabus well enough then you can self-teach a lot of things (although not all).

When you say you did Grade 6 pieces while you're practicing your Grade 1, do you mean you were looking at clarinet pieces 5 grades above your level? Do you like, have the urge to go for grades way above your level? Even if you can play higher grade pieces, it doesn't necessarily mean you are good.

But whatever, you seem determined not to take some of the really good advice people give here, so...

when i say i did Grade 6 pieces, it was a small breather from my Grade 1 stuff. and yes...i LOVE playing stuff way beyond me for fun.. VERY few pieces ive taken seriously though

have you not read my other posts? i've already said i'll do Grade 6

To be brutally honest, I don't think anyone gives a monkey's what exam you do next any more. People have tried to give you good advice - take it or leave it, it's up to you. You seem to ignore what you don't want to hear anyway ...

ever thought i may have had a change of heart after 10 pages?

Well let's see.

There's no way on earth you could have played a wrong note after six hours a day practice for a year at grade 1 UNLESS you actually didn't know what the note was and never worked out what it was even after a year of lessons. If you could play grade 6 pieces then you could hardly get less than full marks on grade 1 sightreading, and it is hard to imagine that you couldn't work out grade 1 scales after a year. That really doesn't leave many options, does it. Even if you got zero on your aurals it's hard to work out how you could only have got 112 - and I really can't see anyone getting zero on grade 1 aurals. So you must have either completely ignored the dynamics on all three pieces (and you could have looked up what p and f meant even if no-one told you) or you must have been squeaking all over the place and never asked anyone how to put it right (and put up with that squeaking for six hours a day for a whole year to boot!). It's really hard to see any other possibilities.

Liz

look i have no idea how that happened. but i did know my scales pretty damn well

actually, thinking back...i think it was tonality more than anything maybe dynamics as well but either way i still dont know how i only managed 112

im sorry but its just the way it happened

Er... and have you?

Experienced and knowledgable (and other less extraordinary people like me, who is far from an expert but does at least have a vague idea of real life) people have spent 10 pages desperately trying to convince you against a foolish course of action when they could have been out living life or even just practising, and you may have a change of heart? No, I have to be honest, I'm really sorry but I really find it very hard to care at this point I'm afraid. And I'm normally a pretty caring person... But hoooooooray if you do see sense eventually...