has anyone ever seen a D 3 octaves above low D on a flute in the flute repertoire AT all? if memory serves, the Prokofiev Sonata calls for it?

I have Malcolm Arnold's Fantasy for flute a solo piece which has top Ds and C#s.
I haven't managed to get these notes reliably yet and so I replace them with something else!

Yes, the Prokofiev SOnata and the Prokofiev Classical symphony both have top Ds.

One of the Feld pieces set for Grade 8 has a top C#.

I think Density 21.5 has top Ds as well.

not sure of the name, but I have a piece somewhere with a lot of top D's. I'm going to try tackling it after my grade 8!

theres a Grade 8 piece with a top C#?!

The orchestral Flute 1 part in the Walton Viola Concerto calls for top C# and D.

Yes we played the Classical Symphony in first year and the flutes, who must be two of the top amateurs in the country had lots of problems with it.

There's a really good cheat for the horrible top D bit in the classical symphony. It's printed in the Trevor Wye/Pat Morris Orchestral Excerpts books

whats the cheat? use a piccolo?

I think that Flight of the Bumblebee by Rimsky-Korsakov also has a section with several high D's. It's killer.

How irritating, I can actually hit a top D without too much trouble (I find F# and C far nastier) but have never encountered a piece including either of them! Still, I guess it doesn't really matter, it would only give me the satifaction of being able to show off...

By the way, has anyone ever been able to hit the F4 decribed on some fingering charts as the very highest note?

My housemate can do it!

I've managed to get the E4 on my teacher's flute, but mine will only go as far as the D4! (I like F#, its G# that I don't get on with!)

there's an E4????!!!!

Yep, there's an F4 too. On my teacher's flute for E4 I used left hand fingers 1 and 2 and on the right hand I used finger 3, the 2nd trill key and the D# key. Can very between flutes though.

oh my lord.

i once saw a fingering for a top A on a piano for a flute... i.e. the top A on a piccolo....OUCH

Actually there is a top F# and a top G, but the G is extremely unreliable - He Who Must Not be Named is recorded as saying he either can't get it, or can't get it reliably (can't recall off the top of my head).

I suspect whoever showed you a top A was probably pulling your leg - the reason that anything above F# is very hard/practically impossible is scientific things about the way a flute produces sound and stuff. There is actually a top cut-off point, and some notes which a flautist just won't be able to get. And if a top level pro flautist such as the one unnamed above has trouble getting top G...

There are scientific and layman's articles about why that is... I would post the links but I can't be bothered right this second to be honest!

there have been fingerings for the top A on the piano but apparently are really airy and dont work very well

Argue with Mr D & the scientists, not me

Whistle tones you might get up that high - nowt else.

http://larrykrantz.com/rdick.htm#e4
http://larrykrantz.com/rdick.htm#g4

"The lip power necessary to keep the airstream focussed at the necessary velocity is quite possibly beyond what the human facial musculature is capable of. (And please lay off the steroids; this is art, not the NFL or East German swimming.)"

You might conceivably get a higher note (not a whistle tone) with some sort of mechanical device, but I don't think you would beside that. (I'm not even sure you would WITH that...)

Oh here's the one I wanted:
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/G7.html

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/flute/vi...onation&index=0

Note please that G7/F#7 and A7 refer to the altissimo register - the names are noted as on a piano. A7 is what a flautist would refer to as A4.

If you're desperate to know why there's a cut off point,

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/fluteacoustics.html

As I said before, whoever showed you that may have been talking whistle tones, but was most probably pulling your leg.

check http://www.wfg.woodwind.org/flute/picc_alt_3.html deary

also read that long results thread on Viva Piano

Thsoe are picc fingerings, not flute. A picc generally doesn't go down to C and therefore its whole acoustic response will be different. Not to mention that those notes on a picc are 3rd ocatve on a picc, not altissimo. A4 (ie A7 on a piano) isn't available on the flute, according to a top level highly regarded flautist who specialises in extremes and extended techniques and a bunch of acoustic scientists. You can go argue with them - be my guest. Deary.

i never said they worked, im just showing you fingerings for them which supposedly do (doubt they do) but heyho

was that link piccolo? hmmm....well there are flute fingerings to look at...

Yes, there are flute fingerings if you link to : http://www.wfg.woodwind.org/flute/fl_alt_4.html.

Scroll down to A7, dear boy, and the fingering for A7 is conspicuous by its absence....

do you enjoy taunting me? well theres an A#, thats even worse!!!

Yes, an A# fingering which the "publisher" of the fingering chart records no success with... Not to mention that the assumption that higher=more difficult is faulty - in the 3rd octave for example, some of the lower notes are harder due to the number of holes open as compared with their low and middle octave equivalents - hence the "split E" mechanism to facilitate top E.
I'm not convinced whether any of those very highest fingerings are designed to be played on a normal C foot flute. I have never been able to find a definitive answer to whether the usual altissimo range is actually available on a C flute, although I'm inclined to believe (from what I have read and the general consensus of experty-type people - of which I make no claim to be one) that up to F# is probably possible if one has a very strong embouchure, and the D is definitely possible according to authorities such as Trevor Wye if I understand his Daily Exercise book correctly. However notes above F#... well if you care to argue about it, take it up with Mr D himself and the scientists, because I for one am inclined to believe them. If Robert D can't hit top G after years of trying...

ARGH!!! I DID SAY I DOUBT THEY WOULD WORK!!!!

must i be criticised for EVERYTHING i say?!

GCBS, if you are going to post erroneus things in frankly a very condescending way then expect to be corrected. And don't overreact. Good grief.



*gives up*

Yes, the Prokofiev Sonata does call for a top D somewhere, haven't seen the music for it but its somewhere there

the Mahler Ninth Symphony has a couple sections where flutes are playing High D.

Flight of the BumbleBee doesn't have any high Ds.

The Lindisfarne (sp?) Rhapsody by Philip Sparke has a high D in a few places throughout, and as the last note of the piece - its just nasty.

And I thought ending on an F#3 was pretty bad! (at least, it is piano and with no time to breathe before hand) I swear some composers have no idea of what they're actually asking people to do!

Sparke wrote music for Flute? fantastic

hey we must feel for bassoonists though, a range of 3 and a half octaves...poor them!

Yeah, its an awesome piece - its set for both flute+piano, and flute+wind ensemble - I played in an ensemble accompanying the flute, and now I'm learning it to play with a piano. Its one heck of a piece!

Also, in the Mahler, he wrote for the bassoons to go down to a low A, so in order to do that, bassoonists have to extend the instruments, using kitchen paper rolls, rolled up A4 paper etc ... Looks pretty silly but it works. So even nastier for them, eh?

not strictly true, bassoons can be made with a low A extension

i also believe he wrote piccolo parts that go to a low C (lowest note being a D) but again, you can get C footed piccolos

Yeah he did, and there's a B in that Ninth as well - I just play them up the octave when that comes up. I didn't realise that about bassoons ... are you positive on that one? Because there were some pretty top standard musicians in that orchestra, and even the music animateur said when interviewing them on stage each night that it was because the bassoon doesn't go down to a low A.....

PICCOLO MUSIC DOWN TO A LOW B?!?!?!!?!? WHAT WAS MAHLER THINKING!!!

im positive about the Bassoons having a low A extension

Hrmm -shrug- Okay.

Well it could have been a misprint I guess but my part definitely had a low B

This doens't really have anything to do with a high D, but I saw a flute on Ebay (always browse, never buy!) that had a B flat foot! Anyone ever seen this before...or is it just me?

Where is this B flat foot?

I've been looking, but I can't find it, it seems to have been sold. It might come back on again. I remember it was a wooden flute for about £1400 as it was in the Ebay "featured items" bit at the top of the flute section.