do yOU think theres such thing?

Are you trolling here or being serious?

im actually being serious if anyone really thinks theres a "best" composer

in my eyes, no there isnt, every composer was good at something that no composer has matched yet

Nah, it's a troll but one I'm happy to answer:

Sir Malcolm Arnold

If you don't know his stuff, shame on you

I don't think there's such a thing...obviously there are VERY GOOD composers that everyone knows but in the end its down to opinions isnt it?

The poster concerned will shortly overtake Saxlover at an average of 40 posts per day.


If you're talking about conventional western music the best in every respect has to be Beethoven. Apologies if he isn't your favourite. Ive gone to considerable effort to prove otherwise.....but can't.

Agreed, thinking of how much Beethoven carried forward and the sheer refinement of his last music when he was stone deaf and possibly because of that. But the suffering he must have gone through......... doesnt bear thinking about.

20TH CENTURY COMPOSERS

1. PHILIP GLASS
2. WITOLD LUTOSLAVSKI
3. BENJAMIN BRITTEN


19TH CENTURY

1. BELA BARTOK
2. DVORAK
3. JANACEK

Ahhh...welll you mustn't forget Stravinsky and....Revueltas...not forgetting Mr Frank Zappa.

Love Suzy and Semele ( indulging in fun and games )

xxx

Completely agree! Beethoven is a great composer, even though he wasn't a phenomenal child prodigy, his compositions are awesome. I think Mozart's piano works are nothing compared to the 32 Beethoven piano sonatas. Beethoven tends to have much more interesting themes, not just melody and Alberti bass accompaniment.

I LOVE Beethoven! Almost all his works are amazing!
There isn't one "best" composer though, most are good, some are exceptional, but no "best".

There is no such thing as "best" composer - do you mean favourite composer? Surely this would be a better question where people could give their opinion - the word "best" asks for fact, and there are no statistics to prove if there is a best composer, although if there were then that would be absolutely ridiculous as almost everyone would disagree.

ervery composer acceled at something which brought the standards of music to what it is today


as for "the poser concerned" no this wasnt a troll or whatever i was actually being very serious, and im glad people have actually answered

Yup, agree Beethovan is phenomenal, but I cannot say he is the best. No one can ever be the 'best' they can be great in their field but people's perception varies as to what 'best' is.

There's no best, of course, it's all down to preference. Besides, none of you are venturing outside classical! Except the person who said Frank Zappa (I take my hat off to you!)

sorry - but what does trolling mean?!! Ive never heard of this!

nor i

Copied from the forum rules:

and asking if theres a best composer is "trolling"?
I THINK NOT!

I love the line "apparently foolish contradiction of common knowledge"!! Thats funny! But sometimes things on this forum site get a bit to....um..... boring and need some anooying people to cause a comedy uprising. (See "what is life like at a conservatoire". A bit of friendly banter is always amusing!

Some may agree that the following definition of trolling applies to some of your postings:

4. A broad request for trivial follow-up postings

Perhaps the maxim "less is more" may be useful. Count how many sentences your topic-starting questions contain. If a new topic is started with a single sentence, then other forum members may consider it trivial.

We aim to please!

Suzy and Semele

Do you? I aim to hit...

OOUUCCHH!!!!!!!!!

sorry, I couldn't resist!

That's who I thought of when I saw this post Especially his ensemble works ...

But, no, I dont think there's any one best composer. Many are excellent for different reason ... And, as I can never choose an absolute favourite, I don't think I'd be in the position to choose an absolute best either

Fav Piece

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, many of you will disagree, but my favourite peices are all Mozart and I have to say for all of you to have a chance to discover the ecstacy of Mozart's music. Some of Beethoven's piano peices (certainly not his concertos) as well as Schubert's Piano Sonata in B flat, 3rd movement D.960 and his Moment Musical No.3 in F minor "Air russe" D.780 are the closest behind along with Haydn's String Quartet No.5 in D major Op.64 "The Lark": (1-4) - but Mozart's fearful symmetries are just too amazing to have any other peices come into the same catagory. (No offence intended) I say that particular statement because most people don't realize just how much Mozart hid his genuis. Beethoven's peice are very pleasing to the ear, but are nothing in comparison to having a beautiful symmetry take you completely by surprise and fill your eyes with tears from not only "happy" tears, but sad ones also. It is sad because how can one man create so many masterpieces so unlike any other composer. (I've counted rughly about 50 genuine symmerical MASTERPIECES) I can list about 40 of Mozart's top slow and fast compositions but i will only go to 5 each.

Favourite Slow
i) Piano Concerto No.24 in C minor: Larghetto (K.491)
ii) Piano Sonata No.11 in A major: Andante Grazioso (K.331)
iii) Piano Concerto No.26 in D major: Larghetto (K.537) (got em mixed up again)
iv) March from his opera Idomeneo <------ Would be my fav but too short
v) Serenade No.10 in B major "Gran Partita": Adagio (K.361) <----------(ingenuities aren't very hidden so most will like this one the best, the reason I don't is because it is exactly that. I had to put it never-the-less because once in awhile there is nothing like "Gran Partita" to examplifly Mozartean grace and perfection)


Favourite Fast and Moderate
i) Piano Sonata No.11 in A major: Rondo: Alla Turca (K.331)
ii) Piano Concerto No.22 in E flat major: Allegro (K.482)
iii) Piano Quintet in E flat major: Rondo: Allegretto (K.452)
iv) Overture to Marriage of Figaro: (K.492)
v) Symphony No.40 in C major "Jupiter": Molto Allegro (K.551)
vi) Violin Concerto No.2 in D major: Rondo: Andate Grazioso-Allegro Ma Non Troppo (K.218) <----- just try and find ONE note that isn't absolute PERFECT
vii) Violin Concerto No.5 in A major: Rondo: Tempo Di Minuetto (K.219)

There are about 40+ other compositions that are relatively weaker in attack, but still far surpasses the next leading composer. (Haydn)


To give you an idea of just how many masterpieces the man created... Listen to his Oboe Concerto in C major: Rondo: Allegretto (K.314) This particular peice probably isn't even in the standard Mozart concert repetoire but it is a very nice MASTERPIECE. (40-51 seconds in there is a very nice bass line) Even his Basson Concerto written when he was about 18 is in my mind ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
rrrrr superior to anything any other composer has create at that particular age.


P.S. Beethoven's "Hammerklavier" is very complex (individual fugues written for each change in key and form) but as many a composer has said in the past; "Music, no matter what the situation, no matter what the theme, must never cease to be music." In other words, music must be symmetrical unless it is bubblegum music. Symmetrical sounds are beauty, not coarse violent ones heard in Chopin, Beethoven, Ravel, etc... The reason most composers resort to coarse junctions or passages or orchestral statements is because the ability to create thirds, fourths, and fifths (notes that are the same but diff octave) as a statement or theme itself demands a symmetrical outlook or concept in relation to music. Haydn and Schubert did this very well. (D.960 to prove it)

"Before God and as an honest man I tell you that your son is the greatest composer known to me either in person or by name. He has taste, and what is more, the most profound knowledge of composition." -Joseph Haydn to the simpleton Leopold Mozart

P.S.S. One last example. (sry) Listen to Piano Concerto No.19 in F major:Allegro (K.459) It doesn't seem like an incredible masterpeice at 1st, but just keep listening to it so you are able to understand the main theme, then try to listen to the relatively hidden woodwind and ochestral string conversations in the backround while the piano plays the main theme and initiates the developement.

P.S.S.S. I didn't mean to undermine any other composer and I also didn't intend to cause offence to anyone. It is just.....

"Many people make a mistake who think that my art has come easily to me. Nobody has devoted so much time and thought to composition as I. There is not a famous master whose music I have not studied over an over." -trazoM suedamA gnagfloW

P.S.S.S.S. I don't personally like vocal compositions as they tend to make me shiver and my ears hurt. (No offence intended) ie. whenever I fall asleep and forget to create a playlist on a CD that has singing, I am ALWAYS violently awaken by the vocals even if it is an aria. (I never am awaken by his instrumental works)

P.S.S.S.S.S. It is also a scientific fact that listening to Mozart's music alows the creation of more protein cell in the brain than that of any other composer to date. Beethoven's peices are more easily understood by our consciousness which is why you may feel his peices have a more creative theme or to be more gratifying. Mozart's hidden ingenuities are satisfying however, so try to grasp all the intruments at once and once that is completed, then try to focus on his use of flutes and oboes in the backround. Sometimes they remind me of an electric guitar playing a solo cadenza, yet he usually resorted them to be in the backround used as a complimentary instrument to the main theme. ie... Listen to the Overture to The Marriage of Figaro. Right after the noticable fugue (43-49 seconds in), listen to the whole orchestra first, then the main violins to understand the statements made by both, then next try to pick up the flutes in the backround playing something a solo guitar would play to satisfy the audience, yet for Mozart's choice - an audience of musical connoisseurs. Also, if you have a strong enough ear try to pick up the awesome bass line at (35-39 seconds in). ie... [rising octave with bass(sounds like a ripping sound), then ta da da - da - da] There are a lot of these hidden ingenuities later on in the overture but these samples can be heard for free at amazon.com, but try to find this orchestra if you do check this overture out -----> London Philharmonic Orchestra

gotta say i found your post a bit preachy.

nun taken yore entitled to yore opinun but i fink yore preechin to the convertid. I dun agree but dats neither ere or there.
are you taking the p***? i fink ull find mozart had no choice his genius was never allowed to be hidden -his farver saw to that. he's still rampantly famous after 250 yrs with no signs of abating. u gotta be quite good for that. or did you mean he had a genius hidden in a cubbard or the barfroom cabinet? somewhere.
don't want to rain on your parade but i fink youve bin beeten to it by this bloke called kerkul or summink. went round mozarts dustbins rescuin a few extra too.
what you talkin about? wots a symmertical sound?
nahhhh, dey do it pure and simple to express emotion. music is a specialised organisation of sound, part of a huge spectrum that starts with noise (in the technical sense) and ends with speech.

gnagflow? you wanna listen to sonata #11 backwards great fun if you got a 4-trk oneothem portastudios you can do it ded eezy.
hope your fingers are ok after all that tryping typing.

I far from disagree, I love Mozart!

I don't think there is such a thing as a best composer - because all opinions will differ...

I didn't write that particular post for me, but for the people who may not understand music as well as I, and to give them a chance to discover a subtle genuis. If it is preachy, then it is the fault of people like Mozart being my Gods.

"If it were not for a father and a sister for whom I must support and sacrifice everything for. I would completely renounce my own interests - and consult yours alone." - Mozart

Mozart did hide his genuis dude. Leopold - although the impresario he was - never aknowledged a single note of Mozart's music with any sign of ignorance. That was the only thing good about Leopold. Please give me some examples of him creating a contrapuntal conversation used as a foreground to bravura rather than a backround. You want another example of his subtlety? ie... Violin Concerto K.219 is full of wind instruments in the backround subtlely playing cadenzas. Also, the 2 climaxes in Symphony No.40 "Jupiter" 4th movement, are played by the bass. Oboe Concerto in C major 3rd movement, has a climax which is played by a horn which seems he only put it in the score (the horn) for that 2 second elaboration.

Whats symmetrical? Notes that are the same tone, but different octave and finding a unique theme to that particular concept while never resorting to coarse passages or junctions or statements to release the burden of keeping the main theme in relation to the concept of symmetry. I'm not saying the notes in Mozart's music are all C's, and it in fact it is the total opposite. The concept of symmetry can be examplified in contrast to the balance of ideas for one common goal or theme while either complimenting it or adding new ideas along the way, but never leaving the main subject theme unless it is done by a change of key or form.

"I don't think there is such a thing as a best composer - because all opinions will differ..." quote - Symphony

Yes, you're absolutely right. The fact remains however, that Mozart's music allows the creation of more proteins in brain cells than that of any other composer to date. The reason for this is because Mozart's concept of beauty allowed him to balance his ideas for one common goal or beautiful theme, and the result of this being that the occipital lobe has more complimentary ideas being in relation to each other, therefore, those same ideas are much larger and more complex, therefore, more memory cells (proteins) record more sounds that still belong to the main concept of music - which is a catch 22. (codes in brain cells are like this = Music/notes-notes-notes + Music/diff notes - diff notes -diff notes etc...) (ego goes before this always)

Do it to express emotion? Maybe, but I just call it plain unsubtlety and impatience. Music is the language of the soul and I guees the guys you like were probably simpletons who couldn't control their anger. Music of anger, and unsublety - or music of composed by somebody who had a calm disposition and sublte concept of beauty.... You're choice.

You just dismissed Ravel, Beethoven and Chopin as unsubtle and impatient simpletons with an anger problem?

Gor blimey...

I agree. We each have our own "best composer", unless, like me, you can't make up your mind between W A Mozart and J S Bach.

Yes, sorry Sarah, I shouldn't disregard those composers. I just meant to say that if, technically, there was a face to a nostalgic reference of being called best composer... it would be Mozart. I like Bach, and all the others to a varying extent, but as I stated before: Mozart has by far the most compositional masterpeices than that of any other composer to date. (no offence intended)

Hoffstetter, Schubert, Vivaldi, Haydn, Beethoven, Albinoni, Handel, Bach, Telemann, etc... are all also very good, and infact I believe that the second most beautiful slow peice of music was written by the pen of Roman Hofstetter with his String Quartet No.17 in F major: Andante, Op.3 No.5 - The slow movement of Piano Concerto No.24, is, in my mind, pretty much unsurppassable. Beethoven wasn't probably talking about the first movement, when he siad he could never create such a beautiful theme as that of the ladder. Hofstetter proves that you can't disregard the human brain to create sprints of genuis here and there, but it is safe to say that Mozart was a genuis almost all of his life.

where? heh, i hope he fed this dude well because he was a true help to mozart.

catharsis, dude. many purge their souls of many things when composing. that same music can help others to find an inner peace not always poss with mozart.
like ibuprofene, mozart can appear to erase the symptoms without getting at the problem. sure it can make you feel better, it can help soothe infants, it can soothe dis-ease but it can't raze the written troubles of the brain or pluck from the heart a rooted sorrow. wot? startin to sound like you!

and yore saying beethoven was a simpleton? wahahahahahahahahahaha
yeh well - yore entitled to yor view!


keep it coming.

If that's the criteria for dismissing people then Mozart should also be dismissed because he was a total (I won't put the word in - I'll only get lots of sharps!) in real life. Surviving letters from him show him to be totally crude, rude, foul-mouthed - a typical yob in today's culture! Yet his music came from a different world! Difficult to understand how something so beautiful could come from someone so awful. I know the Amadeus film is a lot of fiction but they did get quite a bit right too!!

If composers were judged on their personalities and lifestyles rather than on their music very few of the "greats" would pass the test. Mozart, as Chocolatedog says, was crude, rude and foul-mouthed. Beethoven would have been impossible to live with and the less said about his treatment of his nephew and sister-in-law the better. Wagner was an egotistical, scheming, manipulative anti-Semite. Many others had affairs, caught syphilis, went mad, became alcoholics, etc, etc. Most notorious of all was Gesualdo who is as famous for ordering the murder of his wife a her lover as he is for his music.

In fact the only composer I can think of who emerges as a truly saintly character with few personality defects is Bruckner and even he had an unfortunate habit of answering the front door in the nude!

I'm not judging anything on Mozart's personality, and to be fair, Mozart was a bit childish and jokingly crude, but the man also belonged to an organization that was founded on the concepts of fair treatment and honor. Mozart firmly believed in honor, and after reading Maynard Solomon's book "Mozart: A Life" - I can confidently say that Mozart was one of the kindest person ever to walk this earth.

"Never have I seen a child who carried more feeling and love in his bosom than does your son," wrote a man named Johann Baptist Becke to Leopold Mozart. "He is assailed by some fear lest your reception of him may not be as tender as he wishes.... He surely deserves to enjoy all love and hapiness at his father's side: his heart is so pure, so childlike.... Pray write to us soon and assure us of your true fatherly love: .... do make his stay at Salzburg truly aggreeable and friendly."

"If it not that I hate to make people unhappy, I would have fired her on the spot." - Letter to Leopold about an unproffesional maid

"If it were not for a father and sister to whom I must support and SACRIFICE everything for. I would completely renounce my own interests - and consult yours alone." - Mozart to the Weber family

Search for "Edlinger painting of Mozart" and look into the man eyes.... Try to imagine him doing something evil... it is pure folly, and such a comforting perception.

HOW do you know this? That is.... bizarre but very amusing!

Just one of the many useless bits of information that clog up my excuse for a brain!

I think that the best composer ever is Debussy - I love his piano compositions

Joseph Haydn seems to have been a very tactful character, liked by all who knew him.