ever played one?

my teachers tried to get me to do
No.1 in B flat minor (far too difficult)
No.2 in E flat (too difficult)
No.6 in G minor (not terribly exciting for me)
No.7 in C# minor (very rhythmically difficult)
No.8 in D flat (virtually impossible for me)
No.11 in G minor (my favourite! i love this 1)
No.13 in C minor (i cant believe she wanted me to do THIS one)
No.15 in F minor (wasnt too bad but still :-\)
No.19 in E minor (much easier than the above)
No.20 in C# minor (bit harder than the E minor especially near the end)

No, I'm a pianist working towards grade 5: as such I play grade 5/6 repertoire....

i repeat, she TRIED to get me to do them, i only ever made an attempt at 11 and 19, for fun

are they nice? i've never played any chopin, never had any reason to i guess. what are they like?

Who is your teacher? Has she done two years playing got to grade 8 and set herself up as a teacher? Is she just scared of you and do what you say? Has she been teaching for long?

And how do you say, for example, wasn't too bad at 15 when you never tried it ?

Sorry, I really am trying to be nice to you now, I have resolved to do so but I keep getting dragged into it, you really do bring out the worst in me .

all Chopin i find VERY beautiful and rewarding to play but heres my views on the nocturnes my teachers tried to get me to play

No.1 in B flat minor - very difficult to get the melody to REALLY sing out and plenty of cadenza like passages

No.2 in E flat - the huge leaps in the left hand and the cadenza at the end are the two most difficult things in this piece

No.6 in G minor - largely chords and a simple bass pattern but still beautiful to listen to

No.7 in C# minor - the left hand arpeggio figuration is one of THE most difficult things in the Nocturnes!! the fast section in the middle is unbelievably difficult!!!

No.8 in D flat - 6 pages of agonising left hand jumps and ornamentation in virtually EVERY bar and extremely difficult to get the melody to sing out

No.11 in G minor - lots of grace notes but isnt too technical and has a sumptuous chordal E flat section

No.13 in C minor i personally believe this is THE hardest nocturne ever written by Chopin, very varied in textures and techniques, huge chords, rapid octaves and flowing triplets makes it THE hardest i can think of

No.15 in F minor - the main theme crops up so many times but the faster sections in it require very nimble hands

No.19 in E minor - a former Grade 8 piece, not too challenging and a lovely mood to it

No.20 in C# minor - probably the most poetic of the Nocturnes but the closing section has a HUGE 3 octave scale of E in the space of a minim (obviously rubato is needed)

i did eventually give No.15 a shot in my own time but never bothered with it in lessons. plus i saw the score that many times before she asked me to do it i knew the difficulty of it

my teacher is actually a pretty qualified woman and has played the Grieg Piano Concerto about 4 times with the RLPO (god knows how she did it, she can barely stretch an octave)

oo they all sound lovely, all a bit hard for me though! might give them a try at a later time...

im trying out debussy's claire de lune at the mo, very pretty, can just about get through it now, started on saturday

if you do a Nocturne, do No.11 in G minor or 19 in e minor

the 13th in C minor and 8th in D flat are simply impossible!

there's life in this fight yet i see! think we could get another 18 pages out of this one?

GCBS no criticism of you here, but your teacher is completely missing the point if she's getting you to try pieces like that for lessons. she could use the time much better, you could print off the "results" thread and mail it to her, sort of like you teaching her how to teach you ......or you might find another teacher

these are lovely pieces though, but then chopin's a favourite of mine so i'd say that anyway...as i remember no's 6,9,and 19 are the least technically demanding so if you're playing through them for fun, you could try those. anyone heard benjamin grosvener playing no.8? not bad for a 12 year old..

my goodness benjamin grosvenor is AMAZING!!! i watched him play... wow

i came out quite stunned

They are beautiful - I have never played one (highly unlikely EVER to) but have a CD of all of them (OK, two cds!) and they are very beautiful!

the D flat and C minor noctures are blessed as being 2 of THE most passionate but also cursed with being 2 of the most difficult to play

i agree, the D flat and C minor are blessed with being the 2 most passionate and cursed with being 2 of the most difficult to play

why did my teacher ask if i wanted to learn these? (i instantly said no to these)

its crazy to think that someone actually sat down and wrote them all... do you not ever think that when you're playing? it's strange, like how on earth did they come up with those particular patterns, notes etc.

i sometimes start thinking it accidently whilst im playing. oops!

and also i wonder whether it's easier or more difficult for the composer to play their own piece than for us to learn it? do they have to learn their own pieces?

if you're good enough to compose at that level, i'd doubt anything would be that difficult to learn

Yeah me too but I am also now making an effort to be nice as bickering doesn't make for a nice friendly forum.

However I (in a friendly way) disagree with your comments about the E flat. This is the only piece (of reasonable difficulty) that I can truly say I have mastered and in my view the difficulty lies not in the LH leaps or cadenza but in the expression of the piece. The left hand timing has to be accurate but not mechanical while the crescendos and decrescendos are so very important and have to be executed in a precise way while not sounding stilted. However it is a gorgeous piece when played well.

I also wonder how come some people get so inspired!


Depends on the piece... many composers write music for instruments they don't actually play themselves, or not to a high level... Some composers will compose at the piano regardless of the instrument, others will compose on the instrument itself, some people can compose straight from their heads onto paper.

However I believe Chopin was a highly accomplished pianist, so I think he probably could play his own stuff pretty well!!

The Eb is that very well known one, yes?

I'd agree that expression is the hard bit - someone I knew who was only about grade 4 or 5 keyboard max and self-taught at the piano could play that - the notes at least. From what I recall he was pretty good at it, but not accomplished enough to reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally wow it. But he could play the notes no problem, assuming that it's the piece I think it is!

because she wants to challenge you? possibly?

haha! i would laugh if he couldn't actually play his own stuff... but when they compose, do they sit at the piano, think of a tune, work on it and then write it down, or do they sit at a table, think of a tune and then write it down then try it out on the piano, make ammendments etc.

at which process do they make the notation?

i think that's the point - it's SO well known you've got to keep it interesting if you want to "wow" people who've probably heard it dozens of times. there's a quote about one of chopin's compositions (not this one, but etude op10, no 3. however, it applies equally well to this piece):

"played in the hands of a master it is one of music's warmest-hued jewels. any lesser pianist should play it only to himself"

can't remember whose words they were though...might come back to me

and i think it depends completely on the composer - some will compose on the piano and others might have such a good ear that they don't have to, they can just hear the notes in their heads and write it straight down. i'd need a piano

pianogenius, I suspect it depends on the individual!


Good quote - probably applies to things such as the Moonlight Sonata too. One of those conundrums (spelling is off there!) where someone could play it exceptionally well and people would still go "heard it!", but if someone could just play it that bit brilliantly, that extra spark of genius in it, then it could really make people go "I've heard it before, but not like THAT!"

I find it hard to understand *why* your teacher "tried to get me to do" these pieces. I can't imagine any teacher recomending pieces like Nocturne in E flat to someone who'd just passed grade 5!!!

merely said "would you want to do XXX nocturne?" "no thanks, that looks terribly awkward!"

All the composers CAN actually play what they write, or they wouldn't have thought of writing it out in the first place, not that they want to make life difficult for you. And most can 'hear' what they are writing in their head even. Like how Beethovan wrote his Ninth.

if by that you mean PROPER composers or do you mean ANY composer V_A?

yeah but beethoven is just exceptional isn't he? not many deaf composers kicking around... not of that standard anyway!

That did actually happen to me. I got that piece good for my A-level practical which was a couple of weeks before my grade 5. However I'm sure that some of the other nocturnes are a lot harder than grade 5 standard.

Sorry, but I can't help noticing these random (rather irrelevant), threads from our friend GoneChopinBachSoon. Incidently, the very name alone - a homage to those appallingly tacky 'musical gifts' you see bought by desperate muso mothers, suggests a person who needs to be a little less preoccupied in how his fellow poster views his repertiore.

Relax GCBS! Frankly we don't care if you play Brahms Bb in one hand and Grand Theft Auto in the other while whistling the complete Haydn string Quartets. And incidently, you may wish to rethink the photo unless 'The first Chav Concert Pianist' is your angle....(only joking!!)

Unfortunately, I agree with Musogeek on this. I just can't see much point in GSBS's posts, or a majority of them anyway, other than using them to gloat on ones accomplishments or musical journeys. The most ugly aspect in musicians, not to mention anyone, is arrogance. Be humble man; wait for people to ask you questions and then you have warrant to show us what we WANT to know.

And in the spirit of questions, I do actually have one.........

Did you think of that screen name yourself?

random, i dont see anything random with his posts about chopin Nocturnes, sounds like he needs to be given a break

why does appearance come into this?

by the way i'd also like to say that in my eyes, the C minor Nocturne is THE hardest of the Nocturnes

True - appearance doesnt come into musical talent (although I do think competitions/auditions etc should be done behind a screen so as not to let comments etc be biased eg recent Young Muso of Year......???)
Hey GCBS - why not put a pic of you playing the piano instead- it would be more fitting!
PS I thought id put a pic of a cat on mine - but i can never see it myself. is it there???

harshness...

I love Chopin! Only ever played Nocturne in Eb though...

When I did my Grade 8 about 7 years ago I played the Noctune at the back of the book (GEE FLUTEY TOOT that sure helps everyone know which one you are talking about!!) - its quite a slow one (really??? id never have guessed) but it was on the Grade 8 syllabus back in the day.......it was one of the only pieces in my repertoire for several years.....going to start practising again soon after a VERY long break. Naughty Flutey!!

I've done so far the Op.9 no.2, Op.27 no.2 and the Op. post in C# minor. Want to start the Op.48 no.1 soon.

Flutey - VERY cute picture!

best of the Nocturnes i've played is the B flat minor one, started to learn the D flat nocturne but my my is it a difficult 1

Thanks Sarah! Thats what I look like- a chunky kitten!!

awwwww... looks like what my friend Fester is having for lunch...

And how apt - it can be so difficult to play the Nocturnes with feeling but without overt sentimentality - ie evoking a basket of cute kittens...
I used the Op 27 No2 (D flat) last year in my Diploma exam, tricky monster, some bits had to work around because of the size of my hands...

Ive tried no's 1, 8, 13 and 20, my four favourite chopin nocturnes. The only ones I really learnt properly were no's 13 and 20 though...

Fester as in Uncle Fester?! And how are you eating it: roasted or chargrilled?

i've never tried chargrilled cats...what does this thread have to do with the piano again?

i hope you're an advanced pianist, no.13 is NOT at all easy, its actually one of the hardest

Fen, the D flat nocturne was on the Diploma Syllabus?!

Nope, it's not on the Diploma syllabus - but at Dip level you are allowed to play up to 7 minutes (at least that's the figure on the pre-2005 syllabus - best to check the new one) of your own choice. You don't have to pre-clear this with the board, you just turn up on the day and play. It's up to you to judge whether the piece is of the appropriate standard.

(the Fester in question is a Harris Hawk - I was looking for a non-musical photo to put on my card so I picked him. Therefore it would neither be roasted or chargrilled, but raw... Goodness - hope my own two cats don't hear of this!!)

ah i was going to say, i've only seen No.17/18 in E on the syllabus

Raw?! Ha ha!! Nice!

WHERE IS GCBS??? I have a bone to pick with the young scallwag! He keeps PMing everyone but e cant PM back because his Inbox is full. WHERE ARE YOU??!!

ANd in relation to the thread - yes. I like Chopin Nocturnes.

His inbox is full??
I can't for the life of me imagine why that might be ...

You could always PM his new identity instead...

hehe! it's a very cute piccy!