I want to do another flute exam and I don't know which grade to do! I've thought about them all really, well apart from grade 6+!
Any ideas, I know it's not having heard me play but erm..suggestions welcome!

what standard of stuff can you play and what would you feel comfortable with

if theres a couple of grades like 4 & 5 look at the syllabuses some of the pieces are horrible to play so pick the best grade for the music.

remember theres the sight reading too though so u ll have to be confident with the standard or else it will show when you are looking at something new

I don't know much about the grade 4 list. If I did grade 5 again I wouldn't do the Gluck - I'd probably do the Mozart -Dove Sono- looks as though there's plenty of space to take a breath unlike the Gluck! I did like the Sicilienne but really love Tico tico. And you've already played the Rumba for list C - no, do Rock Blues - I would have done that if I'd had longer than a week to work on it

Grade 4 List B has some great selections on it, particularly if you enjoy jazz-style pieces or ballads. List A is good too: the Bach, Blavet and Couperin are all lovely Baroque Siciliana-type pieces.

Grade 5 List A is a little more challenging, although if you liked that Mozart clarinet piece Voi che sapete you'll probably like Dove Sono.

If you decide Grade 3's more your thing then there are some great pieces on that syllabus too. I like Where the Bee Sucks from List A and almost everything from List B, but I'm not as familiar with this syllabus as I haven't had any Grade 3s for a while.

Maybe if you're not sure which grade to go for go for the lower grade. You can use that as a marker. As for pieces, I can't remember what I did apart from Grade 5 - I did Loeillet Sonata in D (it was alright, but quite tiring) and Hornpipe by Cecilia Mc Dowall. That was quite nice.

I guess I can play grade 4 and 5 pieces - most of them that I have - with relative ease. But then finer things ..well like dynamics I have difficulty with in some pieces, and my tone isn't very good. I got away with that at grade 1 because it was grade 1-I got a good overall mark because the rest of the exam was a doddle to me. I don't know what my flute scales/sight reading and aural would be at a higher grade. Grrr decisions, decisions.

At the risk of being a total fuddy duddy, I'd agree with Nicki. You obviously won't have any problems musically with anything that you're thinking of doing right now, but tone is probably the hardest thing to get good on the flute, and doing easier (musically easier) stuff really well now will help you get a really good grounding in that, get you a higher and therefore encouraging mark, and give you a better basis on which to proceed. Then agin I'm known to be cautious so... *grin* I just wouldn't jump too many grades at once unless you're really very certain about it, or got full marks or something! My opinion would always be to aim for excellence at a slightly lower grade (without being ridiculous, obviously, you have huge musical background knowledge which helps a lot! - and it's good to set yourself a challenge) than scraping through a too high grade, but your mileage may vary, as they say!

I know you don't have lessons, but have you thought about getting one or two with a good flute specialist? Not only will they be able to give you some good advice on what grade would be a good standard to aim at right now (hopefully something that's enough of a challenge to keep you interested but not going to be stressy at all), but also they can help with checking you are playing with the best possible technique and tone and stuff that you are capable of. Because it's entirely possible (I know people who did it) to get to quite a high level in terms of what you can get your fingers round but still not have the best tone you are capable of simply because you have not been taught how or have been badly taught, and a few tips from a really good teacher could improve things no end just by checking that you have got everything lined up right and aren't making any of the very common and very easy to make mistakes that self-taught people (I should know, I have been one for most of my flute playing!) are prone to just because they don't have someone going "No, just turn this slightly that way". Even some very tiny adjustments can reap huge benefits, I've found... even if it's only a lesson or two just to make sure you're going along well & get some advice re: level/grade I would highly recommend it it might save you years of playing at less than your optimum.

re pieces: - these are just the ones I personally like or dislike, I don't have a hugely in-depth knowledge of the syllabus.

grade 5 I would avoid the Gluck like the plague but then I'm biased I just don't like it that much and it's so overplayed. anitra's dance is quite fun, I don't think I tried many of the other list A pieces, the Handel's OK. Rumba is nice but seems to be terribly popular which ain't always the best thing... seems pretty easy for grade 5 though, I wonder if they expect really fabulous performances of it??! the Richard Rodney Bennett in list B is lovely, lots of low starts though i seem to recall so you'd need to be confident you could reliably start on bottom C in an exam situation without just producing a load of air, which can be tricky when the nerves hit the faure is lovely but I imagine very popular. Are there any Stokes studies at grade 5? or is it grade 4 The one I'm doing for grade 6 is great fun! The Ferling one is OK. Haven't played either of the Mozarts for list A.... the Faure is gorgeous but you need a lot of confidence to pull of the section where it changes key and goes up high.

grade 4 there are lots of good pieces on grade 4 it seems! in addition to those mentioned, I really loved the "Sunrise, Sunset" that I did, it's gorgeous! I did the Bach from list A and the Telemann study, all good stuff although the Bach is one of those that is well known so in retrospect it's one of those where you might risk comparison with Galway or Pahud or someone eeek! I also quite liked the Couperin though soon deserted it in favour of the Bach. Lots of people have said about the Telemann from list A being good.

grade 3, I liked the Arietta (Maikapur or someone??) and the Sibelius ("The Peace of Evening") from list B, I would have found it hard to chose because I liked them both! The Puccini and the Bizet from list A I like both of. I forget which others I had a go through. I don't think I tried any of the studies.

grade 2 I think that's the one with The Lass of Richmond Hill on the list? I think that one's quite nice someone told me... I remember having a look at Go To the devil I think that was quite fun... and I think the Ravel prelude was rather nice from list 2, as well as the Sullivan which could be quite fun!

You've piqued my interest now, nat, I shall end up having a look at all the syllabus pieces I have tomorrow!

Yes, indeed it is The Lass of Richmond Hill is a nice Grade 2 piece.

Yes but as its my 3rd/4th instrument, I wouldn't know if to definitely go for it because of money etc and if it would slow down my progress on sax if I took flute really seriously and tried to improve that.

Don't get me wrong I do want to improve, and tone is probably my biggest downfall but I guess I just need to think about what I hope to achieve with sax as well.

*nods* I do understand - I wouldn't suggest that you go and have regular lessons what with all you already play and with going to uni etc - it's great to be able to play something for fun and a bit of light relief and not to be tooooo worried about perfecting it or having to be able to do this or that *right now*... however... I would seriously recommend having even just one lesson with someone who reeeeeeeeeeeally knows the flute and how to play it.

Even if it's the only lesson you ever have, having someone with a lot of knowledge and experience (which is why I would suggest a very experienced flute specialist who will see any major things or indeed minor things you might be doing wrong) listen to you play and look at what you are doing, and give you a few basic pointers as to the good and bad things you're doing and some simple tips to improve it, could really help you to play better even if it's only better at a level that's not as advanced as your other instruments.

It'd be a great idea to arrange a lesson and explain to the teacher that that is all you want - that you plan to do flute for fun and may or may not take it seriously in future, but all you want is to know if you're basically doing it right to start with - and have them tailor their advice accordingly (you don't want a teacher to say, oh well you should be doing 3 hours practice a day or something else obviously not applicable to you at the moment... there are only so many hours you can be blowing your lungs out!). A good and sympathetic teacher who has been thoroughly prewarned that sax, clarinet and piano (any I've missed??! lol...) are by far your majors and you are not planning to take up the flute seriously now should hopefully be able to say, "This is great, keep it up, this isn't, this is how you can improve, go away and have fun!" and hopefully give you a few tips which can be implemented without going mad and practising four hours a day! If you ask around either at uni or at home you may well find out about teachers who, while they probably have full lists as regards regular students, may well be willing to give a consultation and help lesson to someone who may be a novice flautist but is also obviously an accomplished musician & therefore needs flute advice rather than trillions of lessons.

Even if you never get serious on the flute (and although many people change without having a problem, a fair number do find that single reed and flute aren't the most compatible at the highest levels, so it's probably sensible to give it a back seat right now? ) it may give you just that edge to know that your tone ISN'T such a weak point any longer, and if you do at any point (even in 20 years!) suddenly decide to take the flute up with serious intent, established good habits will give you a great headstart!

Anyway... I'm kinda waffling (you guys are pretty used to that, right?! ) but in a nutshell: 1) don't feel that I'm saying "you must", but I would suggest you keep it in the back of your mind as a possibility... and 2) don't ever feel that just because you're not taking an instrument all that seriously, or simply don't have the time and money to have regular lessons on it as compared to say the sax which you are way more advanced on, that you can't have a lesson or two and get a little advice, even if it's the only lesson you ever have!

I do hope I made sense and this is somehow useful... if not then just ignore me *grin* but I hope it did kinda add up...

I will try to get a lesson with someone 'professional' one day lol. I think I'll wait to see what happens at ui (if I get in) with regards to any flautists and what I do with saxophone.

I do want to do flute seriously but not seriously if that makes sense?! It's never going to become my 1st instrument but I want to be good at it and possibly in 10 years time or so, have it as my 2nd instrument. But I think unless I get lessons that won't happen

lol... yes, I know what you mean!! it's great to have it as a possible second string to you bow... I'm sure at the moment you will want to concentrate on getting to your absolute best on the sax, and rightly so - getting so far in such a short time you're obviously very very talented at it, and it would seem crazy not to get as much out of it as you can... I am sure though that you will find plenty of people who can help with your flute-ing at uni if you decide to make a go at it - either in the next two years or the next 20!

As a mostly self-taught person... yes, you would probably need lessons to get it up to a decent standard as your second instrument... I know that I had no technique and no real understanding of how to achieve good tone till I had good lessons - and then I improved *enormously*! I think it's just one of those instruments that it's quite easy to be competent-ish on, but it actually takes a heck of a lot of work and some good guidance to get past that "OK" or even "pretty good" stage and onto actually being able to get the best out of it... (I certainly haven't made that leap yet one day!!!) I know I was "pretty competent" for a long time, and then having lessons really made me realise how much better it was possible for me to be... and I'm still working on that one...

anyway I'm rambling and waffling here so I'll stop only to say have fun with it whatever you decide to do, and of course you'll get into uni to silly moo, they'd be crazy not to take you! so there

you are calling me a silly moo...and elmo is calling me a plank aaaah what shall I do!!

lol

I do know someone also hoping to get into Bangor who plays flute so I'll give her sax lessons and she can teach me flute!

Yeah, I wouldn't say I was great at flute, but I can play, it's my tone that lets me down mainly, there are other things obvioulsy but that is the main thing. I like to blame that on playing sax and clarinet hehe

Also if I want to teach woodwind then I'd need to be reasonably proficient on flute as well, which is one of the reasons why I taught myself a bit.

I'll keep an eye out to get help lol and see what happens

a plank??!


hehe - it's probably actually partly true at least! although I'm sure you'd find you could learn to compensate. and I'm guessing that on the bonus side the fact you play sax and clary means you have pretty sound breath control and probably quite nimble fingers?


Yeah I wondered if that was the reason. Definitely a bonus to have flute, seeing as it's so ridiculously popular then of course you can convince all your flute students that actually they'd rather learn sax and you'll be sorted and have a great jazz band!

Um. Yeah. I'm in a silly mood... *slinks away shamefaced*

A plank yes! She has some sort of weird meaning to it that I can't remember...ooh yes I can - it stands for

Positive Loving somthing Nat oK - or something along those lines!!




I would hope so!!



Yeah I guess the more I think about my 'future' the more I know I need to be quite good at flute, because I'd love to teach woodwind. Or even if it was just pupils at home in the evening, I'd still like to teach flute. Now there's a thought...get all my flute students to switch to sax *dreams* hehe wooo lol

Now I just have to get my **** (I starred that out! LOL) into gear and do something about it

I'm just worried if I go to a flute specialist, they'll jump out of their skin in horror at what I've attempted to teach myself! And how badly I've done it!

My first decent flute teacher (after I'd had lessons with a guy at school for a year and then been told I would have to do my recital on flute) had a lesson with me to see if she thought I needed lessons from her or if it would be more appropriate to pass me on to another teacher. Her first comment after I'd played something was something along the lines of "Oh dear, you really do need my help, don't you?"... ...and a good chunk of the really awful technique that she had to unteach me was stuff I'd learned with the teacher at school (d'oh!) I survived, though

*however*... I doubt that after...what, a year-ish? a little less? of learning you would have picked up anything TOO dreadful, and certainly haven't played for long enough for bad habits to be unchangeable. I had several years of being self-taught and a year of bad-technique-lessons under my belt and it only took about 6 months (OK, and a heck of a lot of hard work on my part!) to go from a pretty poor standard to playing 3 grade 6 well pieces for my A Level recital and go from almost no good technique to being reasonable though not great. I really don't think that you would have picked up anything too bad! Also I would guess that some of the classic learner mistakes (ie "cheat" fingerings, not opening up the LH index finger for D2, playing without the RH little finger) would be less likely for you as you are a serious woodwind player, so you KNOW from experience of other instruments that correct fingerings are important. The kind of stuff you can't necessarily teach yourself, ie things like the best way to get the best tone, are things that if the teacher is experienced they would *expect* to have to help you with I would imagine. You may have a few bad habits but at least you haven't been ingraining them for five years!

I'm guessing that there will be MANY flute students at Bangor... ask around and you will surely be able to find a good and sympathetic teacher who's willing to give you some tips and correct anything you're doing horribly wrong. Don't rush into it, but on the other hand bear it in mind and don't stress about it if you do go for a lesson. I mean, WORST case (and quite unlikely) scenario is the teacher is totally horrified and gives you some tips and corrects stuff, and then you spend a few years honing things in your spare time. If you ARE doing anything REALLY terrible (and I honestly doubt you are!) then far better to have someone catch it now and correct your hand position or embouchure or whatever NOW, than spend years playing badly like I did and have to spend even longer fixing the problems and curing the bad habits!

Yeah I guess you are right!

I was playing it earlier and my intonation is terrible...is that just because of my embouchure or something?!

Gosh, I'm beginning to realise how bad at this I actually am! If I can hear things are wrong then it's major!

If you realise when you're playing badly that actually shows how good you are! Only bad players think they're good all the time. If that makes any sense at all...

Intonation is my main problem too, probably because, like you, I've been teaching myself. With a few lessons your embouchure should be fine and then - Go, Nat!

Exactly what I was going to say - if you can hear your intonation is out then that's halfway to fixing the problem. I've known people who've played the flute for YEARS who can't even tune their flute to an A without help, let alone would notice if their intonation was out once they'd tuned up.

As to what the problem is... it could be your embouchure, it could be something else... this is where a good teacher comes in handy I'm afraid!!

I know I know

I only ever did two exams on flute - grade 7 and grade 8 (think I did grade 7, it's hard to remember now and I haven't seen my book of mark forms for years, definitely did grade 8 and got a merit). I was entirely self taught (being a first study recorder player) and my tone was and is bad. I guess the examiner put it down to the instrument!

If I was going to do a sax or clarinet exam (which i just might do for fun at some point) i'd probably go straight in at either grade 5 or grade 6.

Liz

Hiya Nat,

I'm a flute specialist, studies at the Royal Northern College of Music. If you want to mail me your address (privately of course, you don't want everybody stalking you!!!) I could Copy (naughty me!!!) a load of tone stuff for you. I have so much!!!

Otherwise, Trevor Wye's book on Tone is always a great start. Play loads of long notes and really listen to the soudn you are making. Experiment with moving your lips about, opening your throat, relaxing, blowing more and blowing less, blowing higher, blowing lower etc!! The list goes on! Just really experiment to find something that sounds open and that you like!

K x

hi KFlute- I have a Trevor Wye tone book - got it for £4!! (hah Helen! )

but with my exams etx I've not really had much of a chance to use it..but I will do!

I will send you a PM though thanks!

You might be able to arrange some flute lessons with an advanced flute student at uni - perhaps in exchange for some sax lessons. When I was at uni I gave a friend violin lessons and he gave gave me organ lessons.