I can't decide whether to give up the violin or not.

Why I should give up the violin:
I suck at it and I can't be bothered to improve
I'm going to start my GCSEs soon so I won't have much time to practise
I don't like it that much

Why I shouldn't give up the violin:
I went on this chamber course last week and I really enjoyed it
The next year's one is in Germany and I'll love a trip away from my parents

But because I'm really bad at the violin, this year I was stuck playing in groups with 10 year olds in the introductory course, and I'll have to put in a lot of hard work before I reach the level (grade 6) to attend the advanced course next year.

Well you can't be that bad at it or you wouldn't have got a merit at grade 4! Anyway, it doesn't really matter how good you are, it's more whether you enjoy it or not. Maybe you'd enjoy it more if you found some music that you really loved to play, and this'd probably motivate you more to practice too, meaning you'd improve. Also, is there any chance of you forming a chamber group at school? (I'm hopefully setting up a piano trio group at school next term!! )

On the other hand, there's no point continuing with something you don't like. Why not take up another instrument? If you take up a rare instrument which not many people play, e.g. bassoon, there'll be plenty of opportunities for you to play in group ensembles, as bassoonists are so hard to come by! I have a friend who is grade 3 on French horn, and he was invited to play in two county youth orchestras (the entry standard is grade 5, but most players are well above this) because almost noone plays the French horn! Seeing as you already play a string instrument, perhaps you could change to viola, cello or double bass, as you would most likely find it very easy to pick up.

Good luck with everything!

Rosie

Snap on the theory result by the way! Wooooo!

Two things strike me here, the first is that you seem to feel motivated to play with others; and the second is that you don't really seem to enjoy playing the violin on your own too much. Would you be happy to practise on your own (after all some of practise is necessarily a solitary activity) if you were practising chamber works to play with other people?

The violin seems to be an insturment that gives one the greatest versatility to play in lots of different groupings; although other instruments can provide opportunities for playing in groups too. If you just specifically don't like the violin you could always take up another insturument to play in a group; or you could just use your piano to play in ensembles, do you have any friends who play the violin or cello and might want to form a piano trio with you? Or maybe you would enjoy just playing some music for violin and piano with you on the piano.

It really depends what you want to do, if your greatest love is chamber music and you don't mind the violin in that context then definitely keep it up; if, however, you hate it and are just doing it to get a holiday without your parents there are probably better things you could be doing!

Yeah, merit *cough* just *cough* (120!!!). After the chamber course thing I actually enjoyed playing with other people, it's just quite depressing that I'm worse than everyone else and I don't wanna be stuck in the introductory course again...that was a fairly depressing situation to be in, especially when 12 year olds play better than you.

I find it really strange that in our school orchestra all the violinists are absolutely amazing (most of them are about grade 7/8! ) , yet most of the people playing other instruments are just sort of average. Maybe it's something to do with the fact that loads of violinists start age 3...or that violin's so popular some good violinists must turn up eventually...I don't know. I still think you should take up a really unusual instrument because at least then you'll have no competition! How about the heckelphone??? Or the sousaphone?

Yeah and then I'll have to work extra hard or else my parents will go on about paying so much money and I don't work hard...blah blah blah...

True, I suppose. I bought my cello with my own money and I'm still in debt! They do pay for the lessons, but it took me three years to persuade them I REALLY wanted to play the cello and they only agreed when I had enough money from my job to buy the instrument myself. But then, what's to stop you working hard?

Don't give up violin totally, you may have more time and incentive to practise later, but do consider a less demanding instrument. What I like about double bass:

1) In amateur circles, people have low expectations of you.

2) Minor tuning problems are less obtrusive than in the upper strings.

3) In a section, you soon learn to leave out notes as necessary to stay in the right place and make what contribution you can. Even if you are a section of one, in Baroque and Classical music the 'cellos will often be playing all your notes.

4) You rarely have as many rests to count as the wind, brass and percussion.

5) Some composers (Brahms immediately comes to mind) write very rewarding bass parts.

Yeah, double bass is a cool instrument! And it's true the cellos in our orchestra play almost exactly the same as the basses, although the bass part is a lot easier. Our county music service hires out double basses for 20 quid a year as they are so rare!

..and the double bass is another of those instruments that not many people play, so you're bound to be in demand for group and ensemble work.

I know a few people who've taken up the double bass for fun and become reasonably competent players in quite a short space of time.

You could always hire an instrument first, to see how you get on.

you'll need a van.

people love double-bass (when you try to take it on the bus)

i won't suggest horn as they are difficult, where you don't have fingering/bowing problems it's endurance and the solos are so exposed; and a full double is expensive.

not sure i agree with kenm about minor tuning problems. as a joke i told my teacher i'd take up double bass because plus-or-minus 1/2 a centimetre was good enough and he recoiled with horror.

i sympathise. it's ok playing orchestral parts but practise can get boring when you haven't got much interesting to play. if you like to play tunes you may want to keep violin going whatever else you pick up.

It'd be fun to play double bass just to be able to do Carnival of the Animals and be the Elephant...

Oh no you don't. And that's the truth. A three-quarter sized double bass (which is the size most adults play - unless you're a giant!), will fit easily into any hatchback. I have recently transported myself, a passenger and a double bass in both a 1986 model Honda Civic, and a 1988 Mk4 Escort. Neither are exactly big cars inside when compared to the interior of really modern vehicles.

I also knew a student at Trinity in London who managed to transport her DB in a Mini. OK, so it was strictly just her and the DB, but it can be done if you stow the instrument at the optimum angle.

lol, ain't that the truth?

I have a small harp, which will fit neatly into the back of my friend's Clio, but only if you put it the right way round, right way up, and at exactly the right angle!

ok!

but transport will still be needed. i think you can get a 1/32 size one in a shopping trolley (or borrow a trolley from tesco's)

cheers!

...except you won't get very far because most stores have got those locking wheels on their trolley's. They seize up as soon as you cross the red line outside the car park

So that's what wrecked your plan to build a lucrative career selling trolleys to double bassists, Amanda...

Now that's let the cat out of the bag hasn't it Foiled again...back to the drawing boeard I guess

I tend to practise whichever instrument I'm next going to play in public, and I certainly find that the horn is much less forgiving of neglect than the bass is.

There is actually a certain amount of research into auditory perception that supports my suggestion: the difference between frequencies of two sine waves that causes maximum "roughness" (the built-in basis for dissonance) is lower in the lower register. Of course, the perceived pitch of a double bass depends more on the upper partials of the sound than on the fundamental.

This result also leads to the suggestion than a perfect fifth in the lower register of two double basses is acoustically dissonant!

Any chance of explaining that in layman's terms? (or laywoman's )

Maybe I am just tired but I ran that through my brain several times and I'm still going "yerwhat?"

Two sine waves (pure fluty sounds) in the pitch range of the bottom octave of the piano, and making the interval of a fifth, would sound rough to a naive listener. Researchers in this aspect of perceptual acoustics avoid musically knowledgable subjects because they "know" that a perfect fifth is a consonance, even when the timbres or register of the notes is such as to make the interval sound unsettled or rough.

OK... I think I get it! Thanks!

actualy the elephant is on the grade one cello syllabus (needless to say i am going to play it in my grade 1)

How cool! I'm so envious! Anyone want to lend me a double bass just so I can try grade one and play the Elephant??

I feel exactly the same about my violin too! I'm meant to be working on grade 5 at the moment but it is such a frustrating instrument! I took up the saxophone in January and am already further on that than the violin which I have been playing since I was 12 (am nearly 18 now)

I also enjoy playing my violin with other people, I did something for Kernow Strings last year and that was brilliant, but at it there were all these little people who can't have been more than about 11 playing the first part and that just made me feel really stupid!

YAY we need you in our virtual orchestra. Actively recruiting string players for the forum string section. Have a look at the ABRSm Yahoo thread and see if you want to join in!!!

I joined in playing the violin and I haven't touched it in 6 years after doing grade 4, so anyone can take part - trust me .

virtual orchestra? where? theres so many pages on the ABRSM Yahoo thread now!

Go to the last page of the thread now & say you'd like to join in something & what you play & I promise you you WILL be signed up very quickly

I was just going to post that!!!!

Sorry to seem nosy since I can't play but what's a virtual orchestra? Do you mean it's like a karaoke? You can hear yourself plus everyone else playing? Do you need a mike or will just a normal computer do?

It's the virtual orchestra to be recorded on the recordings site, requires a microphone (needn't be an expensive one), a computer an instrument and the ability to play it recognisably. Record the part email it to YAP and he does his magic and sticks them together producing a recording that everyone can listen to. There's a virtual string quartet on the site already if you want to listen . Anyone is welcome, particularly if they play a stringed instrument.

http://81.174.243.192:8080/ and look at the bottom under forum chamber music .

Hi there!!

My daughter was on the same introductory course as you over the summer. My advice would be: if you enjoyed it, then PRACTICE. There is NO substitute. Join as many orchestras as you can and mix with as many musical kids as you can and just play. You loved the course and you would like to travel, so go for it. Good luck, you CAN do it!