I am going to use this chance of communicating with such a merry bunch of music teachers to ask whether you like parents sitting in on your lessons or not?

I don't mean crouched a foot away from the piano, video camera in hand but sitting unobtrusively in the background and not speaking in the lesson.

I sit in every one of my son's piano lessons and often make notes etc as to points raised by his teacher. He finds these really useful for practise work as, with an hour lesson, he can recall every fine detail so he can re-check at home line 3, bar 5+6 bring out melody' or whatever.

In fact I can't really imagine not doing it and his teacher certainly doesn't mind ..

What do the rest of you like your parents to do?

I am curious. How old is your son? Do you play piano or anything else?
Surely if your son is having an hour's tuition he is getting on rather well.
Should he not be remembering the teacher's suggestions for himself?

He is 12 and about to sit his grade 7 and his lessons are an hour long. He would have about 7-8 fairly complex pieces at various stages at any one time ( say a couple at note learning stage, a few at removing any mistakes, improving tone, checking timing etc and a couple at almost 'recital' fully memorised and having a final 'polish' applied ;-) ) At a lesson probably 2 or 3 pieces or part pieces would be dissected in detail ( say 15 mins each) and then a 2 or 3 more briefly checked, run through, memorisation confirmed.
While obviously he remembers most of his teachers remarks for himself, particularly where they have spent time on a section, he would not recall all the fine detail of her comments that have been spread over an hour

I hope you don't mind saying that i would HATE for someone to be sat in on my lessons!! - - As a qualified Music Teacher, I am confident in my abilities as a teacher, and my results speak for themselves, with all pupils enjoying the content and pace fo the lessons.. but parents sitting in?

..When i start a new pupil off, I always say to the parent that they can wait in my dining room for "the first few weeks" if they wish.. and with the execption of the very young pupils whose parents wait in a seperate ajoining room (door ajar -taking notes if they wish), all parents wait in the car, walk the dog, go to the chippy etc.

I have a list of reasons why i don't think it's a good idea for parents to "sit in".. not for my benefit as i justified earlier! I used to find a marked difference in pupils approach and attitude when parents sat in on routine "do you mind?" occasions.. or on other business (usually exam related). The nature of a piano lesson is based on one to one - and pupils find great joy in establishing their "projected" persona to someone who is external to family - to cut a long story short, and to skip the psycho-babble that i am too blummin good at - a music teacher will always get the best out of a pupil if they feel independant of parental observance.

I used to feel uncomfortable being observed whilst teaching - before i went through the rigours of teacher training.. If your teacher is fine with it - then great, and you should weigh up whether it is the best course of action to carry on observing. - Bare in mind that in some situations, parental observance could affect teacher performace, as well as pupil performance..

All the best with everthing - and brownie points for being so positively involved in your child's learning.

Andy

I don't mind you saying at all .. if I was going to mind I wouldn't have asked the question
This teacher normally teaches at University, has only about 5 teenage pupils and 4 of those have parents who stay for the lesson ( the 5th parents speaks no English!)
Frankly both get so engrossed in the leson I really am 'a fly on the wall albeit a 'note taking fly . The room is large and I am behind the piano so not in their visual field.
My boy has a briliant relationship with his teacher as she does with him so maybe we are just lucky

Well - it sounds ideal! - Have you ever thought about asking whether your son could tape record the lesson (I know singing teachers tend to do this a lot) - this way he wouldn't miss a jot of the instruction given - it may also release more ownership of the lesson for your son. You could try something like this for a month or so - and then ask your son to be honest (and he sounds really mature for a 12 year old, lucky you!) and state which approach he prefers..

You may end up back behind that piano for the rest of your son's lessons - and why not! - at least this question would be answered finally. Your question is after all a personal one, which requires examination of the relationships involved. If you can try out each alternative with no loss of instruction recall, then you can make your minds up and get on with things with no "what ifs.."..

Replying as a teacher. It is with a great sigh of relief that you don't interfere with the structure of your son's lesson.I once had a parent who sat inches behind me and interrupted every couple of minutes or so.She was also musically illiterate which didn't help matters at all.

My initial response was one of alarm as you write down the minutes of the lesson,but having thought about it further it is rather a good idea and frees up a lot of the teachers time.

However,on the other hand,I have two criticisms of this approach generally.

The first is that this may not work for all parents as enlightened as you. I'm pretty certain that some parents would then start to question the relevance of what the teacher was saying,especially if they didn't possess any musical knowledge and secondly,but more importantly and to put it bluntly,as a teacher I would have to write my own comments in the exercise book.I suppose it's the way it is written.It must be quite exhausting for you and requires lots of concentration.

I do agree with parents sitting in on lessons,which does away with half termly reports,having read another posting on this topic,and I usually give a verbal precis on how the lesson went,what to practise,comments ( if needed ) during the week regarding any concerns on the material,either written by the parents or pupils themselves in the exercise book.This list is not comprehensive.It's too late in the early hours to think more deeply.

I also find the book useful when planning out the lesson.

One for Steve if he is reading this.Not sounding big headed,but do you find the more experienced you become teaching,the less you need to plan?

What is the length of time teachers plan for each individual lesson? And to be more pedantic lets specify beginners to advanced.

Thoughts appreciated.

I would just like to add one more thing. I once knew a very experienced lawyer.He used to read evidence,having untied the pretty pink ribbon, and condense all the information over his cup of coffee before rushing out,usually late,to Court.

Can this be compared to teaching given this man was dealing with people's lives?

Totally appreciate and agree wholeheatedly with what you are saying here. Despite being female I now feel the need to have myself covered as today it's not just about teaching,is it? But, in my experience,once the parents get to know you and with the older pupils the parents often do a rush round the local Waitrose

Golly

I don't quite 'write down the minutes of the leson' !! Semele. It's only the salient points not pages and pages of A4 notes ..
Usually concentrate on those little tips etc "bring out the melody" "less pedal here" etc

I am enjoying reading everyones viewpoints

I really don't like to have parents in the room after the first few lessons - my teaching room is quite small, so any other presence in the room is very tangible, and I find it off-putting when I'm teaching.

I find it hard to interact with the pupil in a completely un-selfconscious way if there's someone there all the time - I can imagine their beady eyes scrutinising everything I do, and them weighing every throwaway remark. I feel that if I'm comfortable while teaching, the pupil will get a better deal anyway, and I tell the parents this.

I don't mind them sitting in on the odd occasion - for example, if they've brought the pupil on foot and it's raining heavily - but certainly not regularly!

There is something about this that makes me feel uncomfortable.... and I am not sure exactly...... maybe someone will be able to put it into words better than me. It is something about an older child (12yrs) and dependence on a parent/parent letting go. I would have thought that it is better for a child of this age to be doing this on his own and having an independent relationship with his teacher, even if it means that he may forget the odd instruction about a dynamic in bar 5 etc. He is obviously a very mature and talented pupil and so I would have thought he could do with doing the whole thing on his own.

I'm in agreement with Jo.clarinet on this - I really prefer not to have parents sit in on lessons. I have one who does for logistical reasons - she reads and doesn't take any notice of us, and that's ok.

Having said that, it does sound as if your participation works for you, your son and his teacher, and it may be that you're the exception - backing up without interfering If everyone involved is happy, it seems the arrangement has worked.

I did think Andy made an interesting suggestion - the one about taping a lesson. It would be interesting to try as an experiment (maybe not just before an exam!!).

At some stage your son is going to need to take responsibility for his own interpretation and implementation of what has been instructed in the lesson, and I feel it might be useful for him to practice finding a bit of independence here. You could try being absent now and then to see how it goes.

EDIT Only read Trio's post after posting mine - I think your point Trio is similar to what I was thinking when I wrote the last paragraph and I think you expressed it perfectly well.

I don't think its a good idea for parents to sit in on lessons. Children go to school without their parents so they should be able to have a music lesson on their own. Apart from anything else children actually find it distracting to have someone else in the room and do much better on their own. All my students have a notebook and I write in it exactly what has to be done each week so there's no need for parents to do this. There really isn't much point in parents being there if they don't have any musical knowledge.



What do you mean by plan? I don't really plan for private lessons and I never have. I just continue from where we left off the previous week, check theory and set more for the next lesson. Apart from making sure the aural, musicianship and sight reading books are handy and exam entries/fees organised in time I can't really do much else. I suppose there's a little bit of planning involved when starting new exam pieces but thats about all.

I'm afriad that I also don't like parents or any others sitting in on lessons. It makes me very uncomfortable. Especially parents who don't sit in the corner and be quiet - every time you ask the child a question the parent answers and you get nowhere.

I offer them the chance to sit in the next room with the door open so they can hear what's happening if they really need to. Actually, most drop their children off and pick them up at the end.

I would have hated my parents sitting in on my lessons - I would have just fallen to pieces - how embarrasing!

In a school situation, parents don't sit in on the lessons - nor does any other adult. Why should a home tuition situation be any different. Parents wouldn't take children to their ballet class and all sit round the edge of the room to make sure they were OK - it would be chaos - and the parents would never be able to keep quiet!!!

David

I would have though that by grade 7, the students should be able to do this themselves? If not (perhaps because of their age) perhaps they are possibly too young to be at this advanced level?

David

Have you ever been to a ballet class ? Quite a few parents do (although this will vary from place to place...), and you're quite correct: no they can't keep quiet!

I'm not a teacher but I just wanted to say that I think you've been given some really good advice here. I have spoken to your son on the forum and he does give the impression that he really does know what he's doing and is very capable of playing at the level he is at. I think, however, that he should be allowed to become more independent (an important stage in any musician's life, being independent from not only their parents but eventually from their teachers to quite some extent). He seems to be doing well and to be capable of doing this, perhaps the best thing to do for his development would be, as people have said, to allow him to become more independent even if that means he won't get quite so much out of the lesson. What is it better to sacrifice, the missed forte in bar 10, which can of course be rectified again next lesson; or potentially his independence as a musician?

Also something about tape recording, I don't know myself, but would some teachers even feel uncomfortable with that (after all the parent could be sitting at home listening to it afterwards doing exactly the same!)? Just a thought and it may just be me making things up, since I'm not a teacher I don't really know, but having everything I say recorded and being potentially analysed would make me less able talk to someone in a casual and friendly manner: I'd feel that all my remarks had to be on topic and serious.... (unless it was with an adult student, then I'd feel rather more assured that they would be the only person to listen to it).

Please don't think I'm telling you what to do; after all, I don't know how the situation is working now (and indeed it seems to be producing good results), but I do value independence as an important quality in a musician so would take every step to allow it to flourish .

I think that goes for all kinds of teaching - instrumental, classroom, TEFL. Most experienced classroom teachers I know only plan because they are made to do the necessary paperwork, they could actually teach from the briefest of notes of what had to be covered.

I don't like parents sitting in on lessons, whatever the age of the child and I don't encourage it. I try from the start to achieve a good raport with my students and I find that having any third person in the room at the same time is unhelpful.

I do have one student (a particularly talented boy of ten) whose parents do and have always stayed in the same room (only one at a time, luckily), and they make things very difficult at times, by interrupting, asking me to repeat something so they can make a note of it, speaking when I am saying something etc. My fault, as I allowed it at the beginning and it has continued. I would never do it again.

Add me to the list of those who don't like parents sitting in, at least after the first couple of lessons.

Also, I once taught two brothers one after the other and the parents dropped them both off at the beginning of the first one's lesson. So I would teach one brother while the other sat on the sofa, and then swap at 'halftime'. I hated it - it was very distracting having another person there.

Added to that, the second brother wasn't progresing as quickly as the first, so it was upsetting for him to see his brother getting further ahead than he was.

But back to parents. children simply do not perform as well with their parents in the room for the entire lesson. Sometimes I put aside a few minutes at the end of the lesson where, if the child wants to 'perform' something to their parent, they can do so then.

Hmm all food for thought.
Perhaps I didn't make it clear that enough that I never, ever ,speak or interrupt. Maybe I am different from some of the parents in lesons you have experienced. My son is perfectly independant and indeed functions admirably in a number of social situations where many adults would falter ( for example playing keyboards / drums in a band with 4 adults for a musical theatre show)
This way works well for us and his teacher as well as allowing him to get the most out of his lesson and practise. With the aid of the notes he can focus his practise ( which he does independantly) - he reads through the points and works upon them, unaided. He LIKES and wants the notes to use
The only comment thus far that I have taken objection to is David's
by grade 7, the students should be able to do this themselves? If not (perhaps because of their age) perhaps they are possibly too young to be at this advanced level?
Just because he can't recall every point doesn't mean he isn't capable of playing at this level - of course he is ( and incidently at this level in 3 instruments) With a 1 hr lesson, 6-7 pieces to be covered as I outlined in my second post, his teacher would spend half the lesson writting down notes. I guess it is different if (as noodle says)
All my students have a notebook and I write in it exactly what has to be done each week so there's no need for parents to do this
I have a feeling his notes are in slightly greater detail and depth.

One thing I do know is that I am sure that many, if not all of you would find it a joy to teach a student as focussed and committed to his own ( self imposed and certainly not his parents) dream of bcoming a concert pianist who is happy to work and try very hard...

I think a lesson should be between a student and a teacher with no one else present. Children are intimidated by another person being there whether its a brother or sister, or the next student arriving for their lesson. David has a point. A child of any age preparing for grade 7 should be as capable of following the work set for their standard as a 5 year old beginner is of doing their work from teachers written instructions. If they can't then maybe things are moving too quickly. Independance is very important in musical development. Students should be able to practice alone and attend lessons alone. They have to do exams on their own. My students get more than adequate concise notes, which I write to remind them what they have to do. It doesn't take more than a few minutes and I don't spend half their lesson time writing in their books, detailed, extensive notes aren't necessary. Do you go to all his other lessons too? Are you sure he wants you there to take notes or is he telling you what you want to hear?
When I did grade 7 in one of my instruments, I didn't have a notebook, or notes taken by a parent, just the odd pencil mark scribbled on the page by the teacher. It didn't keep me back. If I forgot something it wasn't a big deal, he just went over it again and I did it the next week.

It seems strange to me too, but clearly it's working. There's a saying that i think is very relevant here, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

I'd say your son is fortunate indeed to have such support from you.

Liz

Liz has a good point...

My mum was present for most of my violin lessons as a child - she dorve a whole group of us to another school over lunchtime so that we could have them. She actually ended up having a few lessons herself and narrowly missed a distinction at grade 2. She only participated in the lessons if she was asked to for some reason... other children were usually in the room as well - there was no choice. However it didn't hold any of us back and I remember those lessons very fondly. Obviously it depends on the teacher as well as the child, but I don't think that it's automatic that "parent in lesson = bad". My mum was able to give me much more help at home which was very valuable than she could have done had she not been in my lessons, and she helped me organise my practising (help that I greatly needed at 9 and 10 - I'm still not very organised!). She never butted in or said "I know best!" or anything though.

I think this is one of those things where one size does not fit all.

Personally I would have hated a parent (my mum in particular) sitting in on my lessons... but as I didn't start until I was 14 this may have something to do with it.
Among my own pupils I have a mixture, some are dropped off and picked up later.
At one time I taught both parents and child and they all arrived together, well armed with game boy and reading material. The parents NEVER interfered in the child's lesson. I now teach only the mother (it WAS her idea in the first place) but in the school holidays the child (11 year old) comes along with a book to read.
I have one little girl whose mum stays as it is too far to go home (sometimes she drops her off if she has an errand to do locally. Once again she is the perfect parent and does not comment on the lesson, sometimes she joins in the aural games and great fun is had by all.
A brother and sister aged 13 and 10 usually come together (they wouldn't welcome a parent staying but are fine with just the 2 of them and the waiting child is well behaved.

A parent or sibling in the room while I am teaching is usually seated where they are out of my eye line, I sort of turn my back on them and ignore their presence as far as possible.
Sometimes it is a bad idea for the parent to be present as some children will 'play up' in this situation.
Sometimes with younger children a parent with the right attitude can be helpful as you or the child can explain what has been learned in the lesson and what needs to be done at home.

The trouble is, in these times of suspicion, you can feel obliged to accept a parent sitting in if they wish for your own protection... I have heard that some teachers insist on all minors being chaperoned.

I always offer that the parents can come in for the first lesson anyway, and so far every single one of them has declined ...

My own piano teacher however, strictly requestd that parents sit in on the child's lessons until they were 13 I think it was ... so that the parents could see what the teacher was writing down, and thus know (even if they themselves were unmusical) what the child had to practice - And she would drop any children that weren't doing the required work!

From my point of view as a teacher it's irrelevant whether the parent sitting in speaks or interrupts - for me, it is merely the prescence in the room which is putting off.

David

I'm not saying he can't play at this level, but in my opinion there is much more to being a musician than just being able to play well. It's just as important to learn the skills of practicing, note-taking etc. as these all go to aid the playing. Do you think that as he gets older, you may not need to sit in on lessons and take notes any longer? When will he get to the point where he can do this either by memory or by taking notes himself?

David

Both Violinutter and her teacher expect us to sit in on her lessons. Sure, she's young at 8 but she's very capable! According to her, she said - Mum, you don't expect me to play well and HEAR (her emphasis not mine) everything, do you? You can remember stuff for me or dad can write them down since he's got a poor memory! Why does she want to hear "EVERYTHING"! Mad perfectionist.

I am silent whenever I go to her lessons (not usually) but at times the teacher turns to me and asks me questions about Violinutter or her practice! V is so tight-lipped that at times, she does not answer his questions! She just nods a lot - yessess and nos. Moreover, the teacher also asked my hubby to get a notebook so I guess he also expects him to take notes when he's there.

In my view, the best person to decide should be the teacher. As a parent, I'd want him/her to be comfortable. Moreover, if a kid keeps forgetting something he/she has already discussed for the umpteenth time and also written down, he/she will know it's time to call in the parent!

Sorry,I'm not exactly a teacher...
As a student,I would never want my parents with me during a lesson,any lesson!I would feel so awkward,like they knew too much about my personal life (don't know whether I'm making sense here)

What does your son think about this?Does he prefer that you sit in with him?

Many apologies...I think that sooner or later as a teen,he may find it awkward as well...But of course,it's up to him.

You are making perfect sense.... those would have been my feelings exactly.

It's like when a child gets to the age where they come home from school and you ask 'What did you do today?' and instead of the accustomed blow by blow account you get 'Nothing'.... (or something similar).

What this really means is 'I can handle it thank you, I don't need you to know everything I do any more'.

Rather than be worried about this parents should be pleased that they have equipped their child to cope with day to day life. It would be more worrying in some ways if this point is not reached.

I tend to agree.

If I were an 8-yr old kid or by nature, a very reserved one, I'd definitely want my mum with me like Violinutter who likes to keep quiet all the time DESPITE HER CONFIDENCE which can be really irritating at times (!!!) when the teacher asks a question, the answer to which she definitely knows! Even her teachers remarked on her reticence. She's so quiet and so cool most of the time that one teacher described her as "ice-cold efficiency" (quote). *sigh*

However, if I were a teenager, I'd feel my parent's presence IS an infringement of MY privacy! I'd also regard myself as a "failed" parent (honestly!) if V still needs me to speak up on her behalf as a teenager.

Tess

Yes, Semele, I do. I now have all my long-term aims worked out. I can adapt instantly within that framework, to events changing the short-term plans that lead to achieving those long-term aims. I know large sections of the repertoire and experienced most of the situations we meet as private teachers.

Having said all that, I never have planned in great detail. As I was gaining so much ecperience over such a long time, I often relied on instinct to tell me what to do next. My instincts seldom let me down.

Phew.

Steve

All I would say, going back to your original question is, if you feel the need to continue sitting in and you child and teacher are happy for it to continue, then carry on. Horses for courses! But I cannot help sensing that you are beginning to have your doubts, or you would not have asked us all to comment in the first place! However, I do agree with others that sooner or later your son must take ownership of his own lessons and not rely on you too much to remember what was said. But he is after all only 12 and to be at grade 7 at that age is brilliant. Perhaps a case of maturity out of synch with attainment level and he may suddenly say to you one month, 6 months or one year hence. ' I can cope on my own' So let it come from him. All the best with his music. You must be really proud of what he has achieved.

Children go through periods where enthusiasm wanes. They may be allowed to stop having lessons during these periods unless we teachers have 'won over' the parents.

The easiest way to do that is to involve them with the lessons. Many of my parents attend with their children; some take an active part, whilst others sit quietly in the background enjoying the entertainment. I would welcome anybody wanting to video the lessons.

This does take massive self-confidence. I could not have done it at the start of my career. I have learned the subtle (granted, occasionally brutal) skills of parent control. I get the best of both worlds. When child and parent no longer feel the parent has a role to play then the parent stops attending. This can be at any age.

Steve

However, if you weren't in the lesson, then she would have to speak and answer the questions, just as she is required to at school. Perhaps if you weren't there she'd actually develop a lot more confidence (that isn't meant to sound rude!)

David

Or she might just end up unhappy and frustrated because she can't put across what she wants to... spoken as one who definitely needed that help as a child at times!

I find children are very shy while their parents are there, even if the parent has just come to tell me she had to order a book or whatever. Young children do talk much more when their parents leave - they are maybe afraid of saying the wrong thing so they just don't say anything. Also, children are inhbited in the presence of siblings or parents. They are scared to answer wrongly incase they get told off at home, or incase their brother/sister tells mum.

I completely agree with this and have come across it several times. I have a 14 year old who learns flute and piano and mother always stays. Although she brings something to read and sits in the corner, she's still concentrating on what's happening in the lesson. Her daughter hardly says anything, because mother always answers first!

David

We had a problem like this with our younger daughter.
Her sister always used speak for her.... had to make a double edged attack on the problem.... stop the older girl from answering her sisters questions and then had to start demanding that the younger one spoke for herself.

To come at this with a slightly different point of view, when I was younger, my clarinet teacher had a waiting room with large doors which opened into her music room, where parents could wait if they wanted. Mine used to wait in the car, and this almost felt as though they weren't interested in what I was doing.

A few years and a house move later, new clarinet teacher had a sofa in the music room, where parents could sit in comfort if required. I preferred having a parent there then, with him being male and me being 17 and paranoid (totally unnecessarily, especially with his wife and children next door!).

Now people come to me, and the arrangement is the same as teacher 1 above. I don't mind parents sitting in on the lessons at all, but constant interruptions drive me potty Fortunately, we're only a few minutes from the shops and a pub which serves good beer, so it doesn't happen often.

As a students point of view here, I don't really like my mum sitting in on lessons if they're in the room, it's slightly off putting. Especially as my mum likes to answer for me occassionally!

But my dad usually sits in the car if he drops me off. Before my teacher moved, he used to go for a quick shop around ASDA, but now either reads the paper in the car or goes to Merry Hill .

My teacher does have a chair in the room for parents, but my dad doesn't really want to come in.

Our daughter is quiet outside the home but talks a lot at home and at orchestra on Saturdays!

I wish David and noodle were right but not in this particular case. When I said I couldn't go to her violin lesson due to a headache, she was really upset! She wants me to go as she says she likes me there. No other explanation was given. She chooses to be reserved. As a mother, I must respect her person and therefore her choice. Although it's a bit tedious at times it is not unacceptable BEHAVIOUR that needs parental correction. There is no clear reason.

I guess one has to be humble - some questions in life/parenting, one has to accept - remain unanswered. It is NOT a problem, her teachers emphasised and defended her when we were concerned.

Her teachers said she's a "very confident and bouncy" kid. For example, at school, we were told she is academically gifted. She reads year 5 and 6 books whilst at year 2. So, she finishes her tests in school in a flash and then she teaches one and offers to help the other kids though the teacher won't let her most of the time! She wants to talk/help out but they won't let her. She told me she offered (!) to help the other kids but Miss won't let her! Miss said the kids might think they are stupid if she finds the sums so easy!

I really think one cannot be dogmatic here. It's up to your child and the teacher concerned. The question is - what's comfortable for them? Musicman, you may need to chat with your son to ask him openly his views???

I believe V will change in her teens. Hormones... I hope for her sake she does, as a violinist (her dream since 7) without marketability is not a violinist these days!

Many apologies for being so long-winded.

Tess

David,
It might be a good idea to have a private word with her mum albeit tactfully? What do you think?
Last night, Violinutter went to lesson with me and at the end, her teacher asked her - Would you like to play the duet with me? He waited a LONG time for a reply. None. Then she turned to me and I retorted - What are you looking at me for? He asked you, not me. Sorry, you'll have to answer that for yourself.

She was copying my hubby and I as we have a habit of sometimes throwing our hands up in the air and saying "whatever" or "you decide" when we are too lazy to agree/disagree/think. It was another LONG pause before she finally nodded and they played it. When she finished the beautiful duet, it was the end of her lesson and I asked - Did you enjoy that? She nodded emphatically.

You see, all it takes is a patient and long WAIT. Just WAIT for the reply. It WILL come. It HAS to come. I've learnt this through trial and error. In the past, she would simply wait and wait and wait. She expected me to answer and I fell for it through ignorance.

But last night, I emphatically kicked the ball into her court and she was forced to reply. Still a bit tedious but never mind, at least I didn't feel a bit annoyed as I did a month ago when she simply would not give the name of the boy who played a duet with her or his age or where he lived when asked by the teacher! *contented sigh* I'm learning, I'm learning every day. What an exciting life - that of a mum!

I think if it works for you, the child and the teacher, then there really isn't a problem. It does depend on all three of you, and in some cases it works - in others it doesn't. I personally don't really like being watched and find it distracting having someone else in the room, but I also feel that parents have a right to come and watch their children sometimes. From a child protection point of view, I think they should all be able to pop in from time to time and see what's going on, and don't mind this. The parents are also paying for lessons, and faithfully bringing their children each week, so I tell them they are free to pop in and listen sometimes if they want to. Most never do. A few like to come and hear their kids occasionally, e.g. during exam preparation a couple like to listen to the pieces with the piano accompaniments, or sometimes a child might particularly want to perform something for their parents. What I don't really like is those few who sit in every single week, although this mostly happens with the younger pupils (primary school age) and as the children get older I might suggest that the parents take a short walk or take advantage of the nearby shops. I do think age can be a factor here. I don't have many pupils of 15 and older who'd be happy to have their mum sitting in every week, but again that's down to the individual.

Hi Steve,
Please forgive me if this is a stupid question - Why would you welcome any parent wanting to video the lessons? I mean I know of some kids who actually ask for a video. Yes! But that's only because it was exam time. They prefer to watch themselves being corrected by their teachers which is a lot less tense than being corrected by their own parents! Parents' behaviour at exam preparation time can be atrocious so the request is wholly understandable. But is there another reason??? I'm asking out of genuine interest and not judging in any way any child or teacher.

I saw a film once which showed very different attitudes in the old days. The father always sat in the virtuosi's lessons and took copious notes even though the kid was a prodigy. Vik Mullova's (Russia) father did this! So did Leila J's (America) dad. Both fathers (I think were not musical but) wanted their kids to succeed as violinists. They both did! Apparently, it was the teachers' preference. Wow, how times have changed.

Tess

I never have parents sititng in on my lessons because I would find it intrusive, and would find it harder to develop the same jokey easy-going relationship I have with pretty much all my pupils. I don't know why- something to do with self-consciousness, I suppose.

I did experience it once, with a Korean mother who insisted on staying. It wasn't quite as bad as I expected but it did cramp my style (I was less chatty with the child), and I was relieved when they stopped coming.

Funnily enough, my mother stayed in my violin lessons till I was about 11. I always thought it was at the teacher's insistence but she now tells me it was at my mother's insistence! I didn't like it but had no choice in the matter; however, it definitely helped with practice points. On the other hand ny mother played violin to a certain extent herself, so she could have helped anyway, but probably not as much or as effectively. I do think her educated presence when I was practising helped immeasurably because she could point out mistakes I was making with technique, and keep me on the right road between lessons; this sped up my progress considerably.

I observed an individual lesson at the Guildhall Junior Strings Programme, and an 11-year-old's mother was present at the lesson, taking notes, very much like my mother did. The child was very good and was working on Grade 5; she was a "distinction-level" type student - destined to go far.

So - I think it probably does help with progress, especially if the mother knows the instrument. But the relationship between mother and child needs to be very good, and the teacher needs to be able to forget the mother is sititng there and be able to establish a strong rapport with the child regardless.

As for independence of learning; although the mother was there in the case of the Guildhall child, I noticed a high degree of independent learning on the part of the child, encouraged and faciltated by the teacher, who made sure the child wrote all her own notes on the music, picked her own fingering (although she had to explain why she preferred a certain fingering), and worked out her own phrasing (ditto). A remarkable lesson in every way.

Violinia

I don't care if I'm in the minority, but I INSIST that a parent of a child stays in the same room as the lesson. If they're not prepared to do this, I will not help them.

Primarily it is child protection - teacher protection really. I work about 25 hours a week doing private lessons and about the same in local schools. If a child suggests that I did "something wrong" how many hours would I be able to work then? At the extreme: none! I'd need to change career and clear my name to boot. I'm not prepared to let that happen.

There are other benefits: parents know what and how their offspring should be practising. I talk about practice strategies regularly in a lesson. They know they are getting good instructon for their money. Unmusical parents tend to pick knowledge up during the lesson to "help" their child during the week - yes, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Parents know that I will tackle them face to face if they haven't paid on time!

The relationship with the parent is just as important to me as with the child anyway. In one case, when one teenager stopped coming, the father turned up the next week, knowing what to expect and is still having lessons over two years later.

You do get the odd parent that interjects a bit, but I've learnt to deal with them in a diplomatic way. Generally I do not ignore the parent and pretend they're not there, but to include them in the lesson at times. That way aural tests and other such things don't turn out so unpleasant for the victim, sorry pupil.

Yes, I'm a fan of parents in lessons. I've done it for a long time and it works for me and my pupils!

Has that persauded any of you to give it a try?

You make me laugh, John. Because you seem so like our daughter's violin teacher!

Yes, the advantages are all there. We seem to be in a minority in enjoying this.

Having said that, it does take massive self-confidence; not all teachers have this.

Perhaps if more tried it they would see the benefits more clearly.

Steve

Yes, I totally agree - it takes MASSIVE self-confidence. You need to do a difficult job not only very well indeed but also without any self-consciousness / with (natural) ease.

I have a sneaky feeling that ALL three of you, John, VN's teacher and Steve are at least very experienced and very middle-aged. I know Steve is...

Tess

PS. I applaud you three heartily and I enjoy the present entertainment very much!!! However, I would still prefer not to sit with a teenage child of mine during music lessons. I really don't know why but I believe it'd make me feel quite uncomfortable, somehow.