This is taken from a thread in the teacher forum but as i am asking particularly with refernce to piano I thought it would be better here.



This brings up a question I have asked before but had no replies to.....

Has anyone ever worked out what the actual list of requirements is for each grade?
What are the technical limits when exam pieces are being selected?

There MUST be some sort of list mustn't there? Just wondering whether anyone has ever worked out what it contains, what things are you expected to be able to cope with at each grade? Is there a limit on note range, key signatures, particular rhythmic features, that sort of thing?

i jumped from grade 3 to grade 5 last time without doing any grade 4 pieces(well my teacher said the grade 5 sylibus this year is very easy so we decided to do grade 5).
what i can tell is i need to use pedel in two of my pieces in grade 5 and you don't need to use pedel in grade 3. also what i found out is in grade 5, you need to move your hands from one place to another very often(and very long distance as well). in grade 3 i didn't need to move my hands so often, and also great changing of dynamics. by the way, there are awful lots of scales to do in grade 5(i hate scales) and i didn't practise until the week before my exam and i only got 10 out of 21 in my scales part.
hope it helps you

actually, a grade 1 piece from my old grade 1 book has pedal in it. I think with pedal it's more to do with how much and how many changes and where the changes are that matters, not using the pedal itself. The piece I'm taking about just has it once, held down for two bars with no changes, obviously fairly simple, but the point is that can be introduced at an early stage if the teacher and pupil are both comfortable with it.

Yes, I had piano lessons for a few months and I got worked up from about Grade 2 standard to the beginning of Grade 3, and I had to use the pedal. As flutegurl said it is definitely where the pedal comes.

I guess the first thing that I have to say to this is that when I said that I didn't mean to imply that there was a fixed set of technical requirements for each grade (although I know sbhoa has been thinking about this for a long time before then).

I don't actually believe that such a thing exists: I don't believe that one could train a computer to look at a given piece of music and put a 'grade' on it and for that all one would require is precisely the set of rules that you're after. I believe it's more structured on other insturments where range is a much bigger issue than on the piano but I think in piano it's just down to human opinion, some of which is subjective. Especially since on piano co-ordination is one of the major issues that makes pieces more difficult than others (it's not that hard to sightread in G# Minor with one hand!) but I think the co-ordination required for something is one of the hardest things to put into words. Maybe key signatures are limited to those in the scales, but I'm not sure about this. Looking at the sightreading descriptions can make one appreciate how difficult piece difficulty is to specify accurately I bet I could easily fit most of the pieces in the grade 8 specimen tests to this grade 4 sightreading description:



I feel that when I did grade 1, for example, the list C piece I did (Shostakovich, I think it was entitled March, not sure though, red book anyway) was actually harder than the list C piece (March Hare) that I did for grade 2. It's down to assessing overall the difficulty of the piece itself, some of which may be analytical, how many sharps or flats are allowed, if there are more sharps then the co-ordination required will be easier to compensate; and some of which may be subjective. A grade 1 piece might be allowed a hard two bar section if the rest is reasonably acceptable at that level. I do think the process is subjective and sometimes a piece on a given list is considerably easier or harder than others (this is often capitalised on by people who want to get through the exam in the easiest way possible, see the number of threads on which are the easiest pieces!). Furthermore pieces aren't split into distinct chunks of difficulty so there will always be easy grade X pieces and hard grade X pieces; there's also the issue that what's hard to one person is easy to another.

To further complicate matters there is the issue that one is quite free to choose any piece from the list so probably could quite easily avoid any technical issues that one didn't wish to tackle. Also, taking ornaments as an example, a candidate aiming for high marks will include ornaments right from the start as soon as they appear (grade 2/3) a candidate wanting to pass exams as 'easily' as possible can omit all ornaments up to grade 6 without severe penalisation ('examiners will not be able to award the highest marks'). As such I really don't think that such a list could exist; what I really meant in my post was to tackle some technical issues that one would otherwise have tackled on the way to grade 5 with grade 3 level pieces and then move on (not to advocate it as a good idea, merely to make a point).

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this: I got a distinction in grade 3 without using the pedal; that was because it wasn't appropriate for the pieces I'd chosen not because I couldn't do it, but it shows that one could pass grade 3 without ever having touched the pedal (not that I hadn't; I just didn't in the exam).

Thanks for some interesting thought so far.
Maybe one of those things for which there is no answer... so much for all those 'What grade is....?' threads.
In some ways difficulty is subjective anyway, what one person finds tricky another will say is easy. I know that there are pieces well below my supposed level which would take me more time to learn than their assigned grade number would suggest that they should.

It's interesting, as when we did the CT course (years ago!) we compiled lists of the kind of technical and expressive requirements that seemed to be needed for each grade (by gathering all our collective experience of various past and present exam pieces for each grade.)
But part of the problem with this I think is that there is no one flat line standard for each grade - I believe each grade covers a broader band of standard, which is probably why pieces that have appeared at one grade occasionally appear later as the grade above/below. E.g. the Handel Fantasia in C which I think is a grade 7 currently - I did it 20-odd years ago for my grade 6 exam. So it's possibly what you might call a more difficult grade 6/easier grade 7 piece.

Not quite what you are asking, but I once had to supply a list of my 'benchmarks' my students have to meet to indicate that they are ready to take a practical exam. The context was wider than this, being part of an application for a post teaching 'A' leve music in a 6th form college. Bearing in mind that this was part of a longer document, what I came up with was this:

My Benchmarks
These are cumulative:
Grade 1 standard: functional musical literacy; can correct misreadings after guidance; can play with basic musical expression after guidance; can balance playing in favour of melody over accompaniment; will have learned recent pieces with ease within 2 weeks.
Grade 2 standard: increasingly confident, guided musical literacy.
Grade 3 standard: independent musical literacy; the beginnings of independent expressive thought.
Grade 4 standard: plays expressively without prompting; elementary, guided understanding of sustaining pedal use; starting to make melodic lines ‘sing’; will have learned recent pieces within 2-3 weeks.
Grade 5 standard: independently uses sustaining pedal with confidence; beginning to understand style and the effect this has on expressive nuance; always plays expressively without prompting; beginning to appreciate rubato; improving ‘singing’ tone.
Grade 6 standard: understands when and when not to use sustaining pedal; increasingly aware of rubato and its suitability within different styles\periods; makes melody lines ‘sing’ appropriately, with a truly beautiful tone; has learned most recent pieces within 3-4 weeks.
Grade 7 standard: excellent understanding of rubato; needs only occasional guidance on use of sustaining pedal; has experimented with sostenuto pedal; demonstrates passion where appropriate.
Grade 8 standard: can perform advanced, pre-diploma repertoire with flair and understanding.

Steve

Yes, especially to the points in this paragraph... it's been said that the easier pieces have to be played better to achieve the higher marks, but still there are definitely easier/more difficult pieces. Most pieces aren't written to fit a grade or it'd be a lot easier to answer the question!

And DEFINITELY some pieces are considered easy by one person, and the next finds them hard, and the same two people could have opposite opinions on another pieces.

Even in the exams besides piano, where range is more of an issue, on flute there are some grade 7 or 6 pieces which I for one find easier (technically at least) than some in 5 or 6 respectively. It doesn't mean they're easier necessarily, they just suit me better.

I really think this is the salient point. From reading on here I often find that my 'easier' choices are not the same as other peoples'. For example, I find it much more difficult to play a piece packed with a regular pattern of quavers and semiquavers in an easy key than a piece with many leaps and more varied rhythms in a harder key. I also find these pieces more attractive to listen to, so I don't know whether that's also a factor.

I've discussed the question of the relative levels of difficulty within the grades with my teacher but her response is always that they're all at the same level (presumably she means 'roughly' at the same level) but presenting different technical challenges (as AP has said).

I find it hard to overcome the temptation to choose pieces which I find easiest, which, as has been said, isn't using the exam system to best advantage. I suppose this is where exams can be a hindrance rather than a help, but I then wonder what pieces I would choose to play if I weren't taking exams .

This is interesting and I think that Steve makes some very good points in his response. I think what is worrying is that the exam system fails to test most of the qualities that he so rightly points out these pianists should have. It's okay at the earlier stages but at the later stages where the requirement to be able to do those things independently (something that is very important) isn't and can't be tested (I don't think that one can claim the sightreading test is sufficient to test these qualities!). This explains why so many pianists can be pushed through grade 8, sometimes with good marks, without actually being that standard: probably with the grade 4 skills he lists, a good teacher to give instruction and a lot of patience and hard slog one could pass a grade 8 exam. I do think that independence is something very important and the exam system is perhaps quite dangerous in the hands of a good teacher (pianistically speaking, knowing what to ask for) with the wrong set of aims for the pupil.

Steve: just out of interest when you say learnt 'recent pieces in X weeks' what standard are these pieces, that same grade level as they're going to take or a grade higher?


That's interesting I find it impossible to choose anything other than the piece I like the best (so strongly so that I find it difficult even to learn two pieces from the list to choose later as I know which I shall select straight away; it would be difficult if I strongly liked two pieces equally but this has not happened yet). I have only once been ambivalent through not particularly liking any of the pieces too much (not disliking just none standing out, this year's grade 5 list B incidentally) at which point I went for the one that would be the most 'good for me'.

In so far as it is possible to judge 'the grade of a piece', I mean, say, grade 3 standard pieces for whom the candidate's next exam will be grade 3.

Steve

I suppose what I meant (in my limited experience of exams ) was that I choose the easiest pieces of the ones I enjoy - I certainly couldn't play anything that didn't appeal, as I wouldn't be able to bear playing it for months on end...but it does worry me, especially as I enjoy learning in a structured way, that I'm not using the criterion of choosing pieces on the basis of what's best for my progress...although I think if I were choosing really wide of the mark my teacher would be quite persuasive in redirecting me!

I agree that independence is the aim, but looking at Steve's list I can see straightaway that I don't have the grade 5 requirement independently to use the sustaining pedal with confidence...I'm still heavily dependent on my teacher for her suggestions about when to use it....

(Sorry sbhoa, I seem to have gone off the track of your original post...)

Fear not, I note that Steve makes the distinction between using the sustain pedal confidently and using the sustain pedal correctly! The latter arriving a grade later. I'd guess if you have a good stab at using it and are sometimes corrected by your teacher that's confidence in using it. If you do it correctly most of the time and only very rarely need correction from your teacher that's understanding when and when not to use it. Of course I am only second guessing Steve here but there must be a difference between the two. Even the best pianists at some times are in great debate about whether or not to use the pedal in certain pieces (one can often start quite an argument ).

I think there is a difference, but part of this comes down to my teaching style - I was not required to discuss this in the document. Also understand, please, that I am not making any, "Gosh, but I am such a nice guy" claims here. OK, so I am, but that is not the point

Depending on the age and musical development of the individual, I will start suggesting\wanting use of the sustaining pedal at any point between roughly grades 1 and 3 - typically later than sooner. I will be teaching its use from about grade 4 and insisting on its independent use from about grade 5 standard. By the time a student is ready to take grade 5, they should be starting to use the pedal with confidence. This confidence comes from the fact that I will not criticise their efforts unless they are totally lacking, in which case I am lethal.

Given that I will kindly offer\encourage corrections (whole host of nuances here that could fill a separate document) rather than directly criticise, confidence grows. Given the vast repertoire that a student will study in between taking grades 5 & 6, this confidence will grow from blind confidence to actual knowledgable understanding, via the aural capacity for listening to the effects created.

Of course, different individuals = different rates of progress. 'The norm' lies somewhere in here.

Hope all this makes sense. As I have said occasionally before, the wine has been pleasant tonight.

Steve