I was wondering what people think of the pianos at the diploma centre's.

I was put off my most local one (Birmingham) as several people had warned me of a substandard (a rather battered steinway) piano in a small room.

I took my dipABRSM at Oxford, at the Jacqeline du Pre music centre, which had a Yamaha C7 - which was almost excellent apart from the pedal which didnt "bite" quite as close to the top as I expected for a new piano....

The standard of pianos varies greatly from centre to centre - some people have taken their exam on lovely Steinways, while others have had poor instruments that do not respond well. For my piano diploma (Cardiff) I had to play on a stiff Kawai that could not reach the top dynamic level, and it had a dull tone that made it difficult to play the bright, sparkling passages well.
It really doesn't seem fair that candidates are faced with pianos of such a widely differing standard, which could affect their performance and whether they pass or fail. Although pianists have to cope with playing on different pianos, it is not acceptable for them to have to battle with an unresponsive instrument under exam conditions. I have no problem with playing on a different piano as long as it responds to the musical effects I am trying achieve. But the overall performance is compromised if the instrument is of a poor quality, as musical intention cannot be expressed.

There was a Steinway Grand at my diploma centre - Winchester. My accompanist said it was a lovely piano.

See if the Nottingham centre is still using the recently built arts centre at Nottingham Trent uni. I accompanied an Advanced Cert (precursor to the Dip) about 5 years ago, on a then brand-new, full sized Steinway. It was nothing short of fantastic.

Steve

I have also taken examinations at Oxford. My opinions were exactly the same - great piano (not too bright in the treble like some Yamahas I've played), great acoustics in the hall but shame about the sustain pedal. The bite was when the pedal was about 3/4 of the way down and the entire range was across a very narrow range.

I believe these things are quite easy to adjust however, so perhaps if I ever take another exam there I'll have a word with the admin people at the venue who might get their tuner to take a look.

There is another thread where people warn of problems with the piano/environment during their exams. Makes interesting reading...

I had that problem too on the Steinway when I took my exam in Glasgow. Fully-off to fully-on was about 1cm of pedal movement. Thankfully, I passed, but my examiners' comments are littered with 'pedal blurring harmonies', 'surfeit of pedal' etc. etc.

which exam centre in glasgow?

I did a course at the centre in Bristol the other week and it is a grotty old Steinway with a clicky A flat.

Biggars.

They bring in a Steinway especially for the diploma exams. The usual piano, a Boston upright, was the warm up piano.

that's where i've always been for exams, so thanks for the warning about the steinway! it's never been in the room when i've sat any exams. last time i had the black upright with the middle "practice pedal". i assume that's the boston - i never checked the name.

Does the RNCM host exams? They should offer a pretty fantastic piano.

Steve

Hi,

Reviving this post i took my Dip ABRSM at Nottingham in the Uni Concert Hall. Although it was on a new full-sized concert grand Steinway, i felt that the tiny size of the venue made the sound too overpowering - don´t say it was my playing-

I´ve heard professional pianist complain of this problem at this venue. All i can suggest is arranged to visit the venue and have a full run-through of your recital a week or two beforehand. Then you will get to now any quirks beforehand. Most venues will allow this if you give them a ring beforehand.

Any comments on my final - i think - LRSM program:

Bach Partita No. 2
Mozart C Minor Sonata
Brahms Fantasies Op. 116 complete book 2.

I know the Bach and the Mozart are in the same key but i think i´ll be able to explain through notes and the viva that the contrast is in the development of music for the instrument and playing the 2 pieces together highlights this.

Also, only the Capriccios are on the LRSM but i think playing them with the preceding Intermezzos gives a much more satisfying and emotional experience for the listener.

Hopefully going to do it in July next year and play from memory. Maybe a practice concert at Leicester Uni, or Warwick beforehand

Especially keen for a reply from Steve.

Thanks

I took one at Manchester University. The piano was fine but was crammed in a tiny room and so was way too loud.

My second attempt was at the RNCM. Hideous warm up pianos but gorgeous Steinway grand in a large room for the exam itself. My only critisism is that the pedal was on almost before you pressed it!! Hence I also received lots of 'pedal blurring harmonies' comments.

Failed both times Not because of the pianos though, I just wanted good enough.

I am most flattered, kind yamaha.

Assuming I am the Steve to whom you refer. Either that or I retire in embarassmend and confusion

About what would you like me to reply?

If the piano in Nottingham, then all I can say is; I loved it and want to marry it

I assume you mean your LRSM programme so:
The Bach - a gem from Sinfonia to Capriccio. The Mozart - a gem from beginning to end. But nearly 30 minutes of music (your timing is probably shorter, as mine includes repeats in the sonata - essential when playing recitals ) all in C minor? Not something I would do to an audience of mine.

So, how important is it that your LRSM programme represents a 'balanced' programme? I am not sure that the contrasting styles of M & B are sufficient to make up for 30 or so minutes in a heavy minor key like C minor.

I have none of the Brahms op 116 in my repertoire and cannot recall ever teaching any of them to students. Brahms is a 'heavy' composer, so your programme sounds unbalanced to me. Just remember that I am not looking at the syllabus as I type this.

Hope this helps. Not sure it does.

Steve

Yes, I agree with Steve. This is a *seriously* heavy programme, and I think you'd be crazy to have two major pieces in C-minor back-to-back as you have there. The Brahms works are late, introspective, even melancholy pieces, so this will not be a very jolly concert. There's nothing from the 20th century, but I guess that might be excused on the grounds of time pressure.

I find this so depressing, but a balanced program is part of the requirements. I suppose if the Mozart were changed for the Haydn E flat sonata (52) this would make all the difference?

Thanks for your replies - i wrote this down on paper tonight:

Bach C minor
Mozart C minor
Brahms Fantasien

and felt very depressed just looking at it

However,

Bach C minor
Haydn E flat major
Brahms Fantasien

just looks so much more balanced

At least i have the Mozart in my repetoire and it might go nicely with the Partita no. 5 in G major and some Rachmaninov for a future concert

It is easy to forget that 'balance' is about more than merely period. This certainly looks better.

For this next bit, remember that I do not know the Brahms. Would the balance of your programme improve for not playing all of the op 116 and substituting instead something from the 20th century. It does not need to be 20th century horrible - some Debussy of Gershwin, perhaps?

Steve

Yes, the programme:
Bach Cm
Haydn Eb
Brahms Fantasien 1/3/7

Looks much more promising. Note that the Brahms pieces are all in minor keys D/G/D resp., though this is ABRSM's own deliberate choice. There are several other combinations of Brahms pieces available in the syllabus, which might be worth a look.

If you want to end on a big note, you could pick Scriabin's Etude Op.8 No.12 in D# minor - collossal!

Good luck!

This is interesting. D# minor is one of those keys lika A# minor that I always tell students to ignore as being a theoretical but stupid possibility?

Was Scriabin actually daft enough to compose a piece in D# minor?

Steve

Yes, sure, Scriabin just loves his double-sharps... Curiously, it's the enharmonic minor of the Haydn piece

An old out-of-copyright edition of the score is on free download, click the link "Etude, Op.8, No.12" in this page: http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/single_li...?composer_id=11

The only downside of playing this piece (assuming you even can, which is a big assumption) is that Horowitz left several stunning recordings of it, and that's a big act to follow...

Good heavens. I have lied to my students all these years - "Forget D# minor. Nobody is going to be insane enough to actually compose in this key."

Anybody written anything in Cb major\minor and Fb major\minor?

Steve

Regarding D#, are there not several pieces in the Bach WTC Books I/II which use this key? Some older editions may have bowdlerised them into Eb though.

For the extreme flat keys, the main piece that comes to mind is Ravel's haunting Le Gibet from his masterly work for piano Gaspard de la Nuit. This starts off in 7 flats, and a barrage of double-flat accidentals soon follows: I find it effectively impossible to sight-read due to this, but the work as a whole is absolutely magnificent.

Indeed there are: prelude and fugue no. 8 in the WTC, for instance. The prelude is in Eb minor (six flats) whereas the corresponding fugue is in D# minor (six sharps). It suggests that Bach wasn't 'daft enough to compose a piece in D# minor' - it is most likely that he transposed a prelude from E minor and a fugue from D minor.

I had forgotten this one. I have never played it and do not recall ever seeing the score.

This sort of unneccessary theoretical pyrotechnic display irritates me. If Ravel wanted to compose in B, he should have done so.

Liszt consciously set out to do for piano technique what Paganinni had done for violin technique. Ravel consciously set out to extend Liszt's work. Pianists who play R's works tell me he succeeded, at least in terms of writing music that is really awkward to play. I would not have thought that making the stuff riculous to read as well was helpful

Steve

Two things
1) Diploma centres, do they also apply for instrumental exams on Trinity? a friend of mine is doing ACTL Recital on Recorder sometime soon (2 friends in fact)

2) If I recall, there's parts in the Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies which are in 7 flats, and fragments of the Toccata from Debussy's Pour le Piano are in C# major, in fact it starts in E, and ends in C#!

IrisH - LoonY

D# minor - you can't have had anyone playing the Gliere Sketch in D# minor from the last Grade 7 syllabus. I did. Did wonders for my sight reading. No problems with B#s, E#s, Fxs, Cxs etc. now.

A further extreme tonality appears in Brahms' Fugue for Organ in Ab minor (the relative minor of Cb major). Perhaps one of our organists will tell us how they get on with it?

I seem to recall hearing it once, and being quite impressed - but I am a Brahmsian anyway...

A wonderful piece of music is exactly that. Especially to the listener.

The performer may have different ideas

Steve